Baccarat Having trouble winning in the long run.

Do you win most of the time ONLY to give it back? It could be after getting ahead and lost in the end of the day OR winning consecutive days only to lost it in 1 or 2 days?

This is one problem we all Baccarat players have experienced and I know for a fact many NEVER get out of this funk. Years and years and many don't seem to ever correct this.

Is it the method? Is it the Human Factor? Is it the wrong mindset?

Why are we winning in the first place ? Why do we give it back eventually ?
How did we win at first? How did we give it back?

These are the questions that needs to be discussed and perhaps might provide help to many.

 

now after experience, I realized with a BS that I use that the only problem I have is exactly the mindset, the mentality, the self control, that it is difficult to stop after earning a tot, or at least continue even for hours but then make mistakes because of the tired mind maybe I do not know but in long term it is possible, the main problem for "experts" of baccarat that is people who know the baccarat and is not one who has never seen here, for these people the main problem is self control discipline, How to improve it? I don't know yet, maybe having a stronger motivation than making mistakes could be, if you use baccarat online, try having in your HZ headphones to concentrate, it looks like bullshit but it probably works more if you believe in this thing

 

All acceptable answers. So what needs to be done?
Look at this 2 scenarios

1. Player A buys in $2000. He goes to a table and made a $100 bet. He wins and then another $100 bet and won again. He is up $200 for a total of $2200 including bankroll.

2. Player B buys in $2000. He is not having a good day and pretty soon he lost $1800 and left with only $200 left. He took a small break and got back to action and was able to make a comeback winning back $2000 for a total of $2200 with a net profit of $200 for the day.

Both these 2 players left with a profit of $200 each. Can you imagine what is going through the minds of Player A vs. Player B ?

 

Then surely player B since he has taken a break could have more self-control first of all, seen from the outside probably Player A will continue to bet, Will player b stop? Or at least by answering more specifically to the question the player A maybe believe he will never go wrong?

 

Maybe I'm not answering very well in English or I didn't quite understand the meaning of the question, (I'm Italian)

 

The purpose of the 2 comparisons is to let every Baccarat player knows THE ENDS JUSTIFY THE MEANS. Both player won $200 but player A is ever wondering how much MORE he could have won should he not stopped playing. Player B is feeling very satisfied and proud of himself for taking a break and grinding to make a comeback for the win.
The important point here CAN WE ACT LIKE A MACHINE TO MAKE THESE KIND OF FEELINGS DISAPPEARED? The answer is IMPOSSIBLE. However once we stopped playing and leave the casino everything would be fine and dandy.
On a new day, we don't think of how much we lost 2 days ago. Even if we did, we would not do anything too drastically to chase those losses. But during the heat of the moment during a shoe we might do otherwise.
So the question is WHY FIGHT SOMETHING WHICH COMES NATURALLY? We do not manufacture those emotions. They come naturally and now we have to suppress it.

The aim here is point out HUMAN FACTOR besides House Edge and Law of Averages is the main reason why we can't win in the long run and not so much of methods or MM.

 

The aim here is point out HUMAN FACTOR besides House Edge and Law of Averages isthe main reason why we can't win in the longrun and not so much of methods or MM.

If one concludes that one cannot win in the long run, please do yourself a favour and please leave this forum. Dont start playing baccarat. Find another thing to do.

 

Patience Man. I haven't even come to what can be done to make a long term winner. The tread says HAVING TROUBLE and not CANNOT. The statement above clearly states that IF you permit House Edge, LoA and the Human Factor to rule, you can't win in the long run. Just a reminder. I have no problem with Lungyeh the person but Lungyeh the gambler some indifferences

 

Based on my experience....many players slowly build up their profit..let's say 10% each day..then after 10 days, it all wiped out...
The anger, emotion and everything will make you lose your BR in less than 5 hands..

My way of avoiding that...is to bring limited BR and try to get AT LEAST double of my BR....so in the same scenario if I lose on the 10th day, I still have 9 times of my BR...

But discipline is hard to master....

 

Honestly I was hoping someone will describe the way you describe so that I can elaborate. Have a STOP LOSS! Bring limited BR! Both are very sound advice but first HOW DID PEOPLE WIN SLOWLY 10% EVERYDAY? Why do people usually win and then gave it back?
There is no needle with both pointed ends. If you play tight with a lot of control, you don't win as much. If you only play positively and never negatively, it's hard to win days in a row. If you play a bit loose by chasing a bit after wins or losses you will usually win because you are playing with probability. A weapon we use to win. In a back & forth situation if you chase a bit of double up a bit, you will see wins. Then come that fateful day where chases after chases goes down or no second wins after a win. Long losing streaks will result in giving back all previous days winnings.

 

Craps, read your story. Have you tried looking at Jae’s OG? May just work..

 

That is why you lost your life savings , this industry is not for you apart from dealing. You are obviously carrying a lot of past resentment as per so many posts you have posted. Understandable but not an excuse. I do question why you feel the need to bait readers with your subject matter, saying you are a longtime winner with the Marty when you are not. Various winning ways using Marty and all the reasons why you failed yet persistently deny it. Thanks for the honesty on your post on how to spot a bad system by the way it was something I pretty much gathered about you from last year from your posts.

There are ways to win constantly but imho you are not able to because your nerves are shot. As a suggestion Stick to the theory and work out the how and why’s then get into coaching or mentoring. Some of sports most winning teams have been coached by below average sportsperson but what they lacked in actual skills, self achieved sport represented they were certainly able to help OTHERS achieve the personal lofty heights they themselves could not.

You ACTUALLY might be a great coach, run the team to success, but you need to decide where you stand and stop equivocating between so many contradictions on so many threads. Personally I think you have abilities as I have posted previously. You just need to choose.

There is nothing wrong with acknowledging you can’t do something, for example anything this forum regarding discipline, bet selection, etc because of personal demons, I personally don’t do Mary as I’ve posted previously that my nerves are shot from the draw down so I found a way to succeed by doing something else that works for me.

This is something plus other things, many have tried to convey to you various post on various threads. Let go of the ego perhaps, be the back room shot caller and manage, the optimal word here is MANAGE other to do what you can’t.
I gave up drugs and alcohol don’t mean I condemn everyone else that partake, I still meet people at bars etc. I stopped making everything about me all the time as I have urged you on many occasions to stop making everything about you and what you lack.

You speak of destiny yet you only seem to live other peoples destiny that you deal cards to.

I believe you have abilities but not as a successful baccarat player , doesn’t mean you cannot profit from the game by simply changing track. Perhaps deal with resentment, hurt , loss embarrassment etc then understand something about how to succeed then teach a crew /team to play by the rules you set up without you actually playing or betting etc. Very doable on your part imho.
Cheers

 

Craps you are picking here a great topic and I am glad you are bringing up issues I dont hear very often discussed.
I for one had to revisit that very issue about "what was I doing for x amount of days when I was winning and where did I got lost? when losing?"
there can be more answers then we would like unfortunately.
in my case I get "seduced" by looking at the marquis or past history and see "great opportunities" for side bets apart from my Method, and next thing I know I encountered this huge draw down that take me to the cleaner,lol
and that has been a problem too often, and for strange reasons, never ended on a good note.
what happens when I do well for long periods is a strong desire to stay discipline above all things, not just winning, and that is key.
then I can slowly admit that I can get into a "superman complex" thinking that I cant lose.
so I witness within my mindset, my soul if you will, that there is a slowly-changed mindset happening on a subconscious level, in other words I dont stick to my original plan.
I am more then ever awakened to this weakness and just being aware of it is a solution in itself.
I had wrote down on a chart what could happen if I would just grow by 10% a bank of a few hundreds dollars, even 10% per week, not even per session, and the amount was a absolute return that most never look at.
in that example you gave with player B, player B is I believe in the right mindset, seeing reality or facts. he came back and won 2000 $ and he is greatefull for it. he does think "only 200 ?" as my little example of compounding wins, he sees also that he overcame a huge drawdown with 200 $ winning 2000 $. a ten fold is something to be proud of regardless of the past, and being able to detach ourselves from the past is not a easy thing to do.
so we all have things that need to be dealt with or the merry go round never ends.
perhaps it is not so much about the game as it is about "growing" into becoming a better man.
in order to do something we have never done before we have to become someone we never been ? lesson 1.
Punkcity mentions something about coaching, I often wonder why they anderstand it in sport but not in Gambling ?
why dont they let the quaterback decides on all plays ? why do they have coaches calling plays ?
from a bird eye view the coach sees the picture of the game in a different way and his decisions are perhaps much better.
players would be winning much more if they could operate under the same rules, but most of the time we are left alone fighting the giant and lose easily unless we are on a A-game always.
anyhow this is my view on the problem. and solution.

R.

 

I really don't know what you are getting at but I appreciate you took the interest to analyze what you think my present situation is and the advices that follows it. I will go over bits by bits of how I changed from a loser to being a winner but the fact is when you are on the other side of the table, MOST of the time, you can see the patrons are more of trying to lose and not trying to win. On a good day, they don't bet enough OR win enough to cover the bad days. That is the Human Factor I am talking about. Now you are talking about me NOT been able to do this or that to achieve success and regard others that too can't do. You are talking about the rare few known as Advantage Players. An advantage player is NOT someone who knows How to Win with a method. They too gamble like us. They are people who knows how to take advantage on good days and quit very early on bad days. I had mentioned before of the ULTIMATE avantage player which is the OLD MAN who ONLY use 1 unit bankroll per day. He usually win +/- 50% of his trips and ALL HIS LOSSES ARE 1 unit and ALL HIS WINS ARE more than 1 unit and very sparingly Hundreds of units.

I don't personally see you play but you are saying you Flat Bet in the hundreds mostly every hand on a RNG machine making decisive bets within 25 seconds. How many people on this forum actually believes you? I am bringing this up to mainly explain that I am not promoting something that worked for me. I am promoting the thought process and the concepts behind my approach and it so happens the progression I used is Martingale and suddenly ALL attention is focused on the Martingale and no matter how much I explained that it is just a tool I used, people misses the effort.

I did not join this forum and started to post after learning a thing or two. I started gambling at 17 and dealt for 30+ years when I reached my 30's and now in semi retirement working mostly for the benefits and playing during free time.
The MASS market of players falls in the long run. Are you going to tell them to gave up? Many of them knows it. It's not rocket science. They know all the goodies but they can't seem to get it done BECAUSE they can't get the better of themselves. That's why I stopped fighting it and come up with a method that includes all the basic Human behavior towards gambling.

You talked about about drawdowns in every approach. Drawdowns are basically 'temporary losses. Look at the recent OG approach from Jae and people seem to accept those drawdowns that he mentioned BUT the bust in my 5 step Martingale is NOT seen as a drawdown BUT as a disaster .You can see how 'short-sighted ' people are! I think many people in this forum argues for the sake of argument and don't gave a reason behind their arguments. It could be opinionated or reasoning with facts but none. Peace!

 

Craps, well said and dincere too.


ND

 

When someone losses, they need to pick apart every move they made and learn from it. Let me gave you a situation in the casino.

Player buys in $4000 on a $100 game. Mostly flat bets and occasionally double up either way after a win or after a loss. On a moderately bad run of losses outdoing wins by almost 3 to 1, he decided to make a $300 bet and then $500, $1000 and $2000. He loses everything. Now everybody would jump on the 3 step Marty that he made AFTER going on tilt which is actually what happens.
But this is a known player. This is his style and $4000 is his Stop/Loss.. For a lot of people the 3 step Marty is the culprit but if you would have know this player, his 3 Marty seldom goes down and it is the tool he uses to make comebacks for his daily few hundred dollars Stop win.
The difference here is this guy has a plan. A $4000 stop/ loss. His stop win is $6OO. A lot of times he does not need that 3 Marty action. Those times that he needs it, he rarely losses maybe once in 10 attempts. So overall he can grind out maybe $200 a day with just under 3 hrs work.
When you are not on my side of the table, you don't really see the whole picture.
The thing we learned here is this guy never abuse the 3 Marty. It is his plan B. The reason people failed is after winning going on tilt they continue to lose and continue to make comebacks going on tilt and soon enough the tilt goes down.

Playing negatively is not all bad. If you don't have probability, it's hard to win relying on accuracy in both bet selection and accuracy with timing the high/low wagers. That is exactly why the casino impose a maximum bet.

In Vegas at the Venetian /Palazzo the Stadium Baccarat started with $5 to 1.2 million. Soon, it was to lowered to $500,000 and today it is only $10,000. The local casinos are $10 to $1000. You can see probability is a players powerful weapon against the casino.

 

speaking about your old men story, I have to share this.
Early on today I went and play roulette and there I meat this old lady that i have seen before. this airball machine I am at has a rare .25 cent total bet you can play. this older lady been coming here every day for years and she can just walk to the casino as she leave very close.
we get into this gambling conversation and I find out she comes here every day with 20.00 $ she only bets 00,0,18,21. (her grand kids birthdays).
she tells me I am retire and this is what I enjoy doing. you know if I lose 20.00$ I am done, gone home and come back the next day.
if I am on a good day, I push my bets of .25 cents per number and do very well.
many times I made hundreds from that 20.00. the most I made was 1,900,00 $ had a incredible time !
I have made much more then I have lost. I put winnings from certain numbers in my grand children envelope and make it grow.
I get laugh at often because I make such low bets, but I see those big players lose so much and they have no patience, that is why.
I have done so well over the years why should I change my bets ? I will bet 5,10 or more dollars on a number if I feel lucky, and if I lose so what ?
I have no problem just seating here all day, meeting people, having a good time, I love my life !
and that is all I allowed myself to lose, leaving so close.
now I know this; just like it would be too much for players to make 200,500 $ bets or more on a hand, it also would be too much for most to make .25 cents bets on a number. no difference.
the real difference is that. she is no math genius and probably not very tecknical in her approach , but she wins long term, SIMPLY BY CUTTING LOSSES SHORT AND AT TIMES LET WINS MAKE BIGGER WINS .
somebody should write a book about her, or that way of playing !
I adore that story because it brakes every rules we have learn in so many years.
its like in that movie we saw, we all look for a holy grail made of Gold where its right here in front of us made of clay that looks so unattractive.

God bless,
R.

 

Playing without a plan is planning to lose indeed......

Discipline is learned, not to be given in instantly...

 

Oh SOZZ

I seem to have miss understood your words. lol my bad , you should keep up the epic effort.

Im extra sozz again ,the fail of a 5 , 6 , 7 ,8 stage marty and I HAVE BEEN THERE DONE THAT is not a DISASTER , IMHO its nothing but a drawdown. It is a DISASTER IF the PUNTER cannot back it up with a new bankroll. IT is a DISASTER if the punter HAS to go back to work for 6 months ( whatever time frame ) or beg borrow or steal to restock the bankroll etc etc blar blar blar. Its the cost of doing buisness.

As for promoting anything I have not promoted ANYTHING TO ANYONE OTHER THAN sound advice. I really dont care what your opinion of my gaming practices are you have failed ,as per your posts, I have not . The things I speak of I CAN DO. That we have established some posts previously has gotten under your skin .Mainly because as you have stated YOU CANNOT CONTROL YOURSELF . WE need people like you to keep the lights on at the casino

REALLY REALLY SORRY that I can AND YOU cannot.
You like to point out that EVERYONE HAS TO FAIL because
A) YOU DONT BELIEVE IT.
B) YOU FAILED
C) YOU ARE A CASINO PRODUCT EMPLOYEE < dont get me wrong we need you people to deal the cards, I have had the pleasure to know many many employees of the casino over the years, you lot per say are a product of your environment. When I catch up with those employees at the bar etc, they are good people yes but they have no real idea of how to be self employed , when they start sprouting casino edicts as to why NO ONE succeeds ,I laugh to myself . I always say hi, how are you as I pass the table they are dealing at the next day.ETC ETC Lol and when they leave to work somewhere else I allways wish them the best as they are nice people nevertheless.

THE basic attitude towards gambling is not as hard as you portray .YOU want people to THINK AND ACT LIKE YOU. Total bullshit tiger. There are numerous documented cases throughout history of whole civilisations getting their shit together to succeed , whole communities, many associations , clubs and collectives not to mention the many millions of individuals that have come from nothing and succeeded. So if no one was able to change their negative traits into a positive I guess organisations like alcohol annon, dating sites for divorcies etc would be non existent, there would be no disaster recovery groups, no social help groups. WHAT would be the point as NO ONE according to your beliefs and lol EXPERIENCE would be able to change, to better themselves or succeed, its HUMAN NATURE . lol.

Maybe in the shallow pond you splash about in you have never meet success , maybe you did but you were to self involved to notice as your focus was way out past saturn or uranus .

BUT fellow readers IM a lying skippy according to CRAPS.
Craps, he the go to man.
LOL.
Cheers.

 

Amen.