Roulette What if I told you...

I'll have to look in my files for the live wheel casino I recorded.
All I did was take note of the number under the ball when it was released and then noted the number that the ball landed on.
It was "predictable" within 3 spots each time - with only knowing the number where the ball was released.
I'm not sure why this so-called skill is being made to be so difficult - as we know that dealers who have been doing this for a long time spin the wheel incredibly consistently and their throw is consistent as well.
If I can find the video, I'll post it on YT and you can see for yourself - with knowing nothing other than where the ball was released you can predict the outcome within a few spots each time.
Regardless - this has nothing to do with this thread and there is a AP section for DS and Bias wheel play and strategies.

 

Absolutely not the case - but you don't like systems or roulette for that matter, so it matters not.

 

And you know this because you are not a billboard, right?

 

probably asked this before but are you still doing this and if so what state?

 

The fact that you call it "the wheel" rather than roulette cracks me up, and you look down on me as a slot player? I'm an everything player, and if the OP could prove to ME mathematically that his "system" could work, without fault, I'd bankroll him myself. Being a card counter, being a comp hustler, being a machine hustler, and being a decent poker player, I just can't wrap my head around any advantage that can be made in Roulette. You could make an argument for ballistics, which would require a device, and therefore would be cheating, and illegal. So, that's out of the picture. The only real notable commentary anybody has ever made about roulette, is that there could be a Bias. The wheel itself could be tilted (unbalanced), giving way to the potential for a bias towards a specific section. You could have defects in the manufacturing of the game, including loose frets, larger/smaller pockets, you name it. None of these, however, are a "system", to which the OP claims to have.

Of course I've tried to beat Roulette with my mind, its the only legal way to attempt to beat a game. Roulette has far more variables than any one given game, and the payouts don't mirror the odds even remotely close, factoring into a pretty healthy house edge to have to overcome. I can beat poker, some slots, video poker, blackjack especially, and just about any dealt card game for one reason or another, but Roulette doesn't offer me an advantage of any tangible sort. Casinos ROUTINELY strip down roulette, check for wheel angles, balance, tilt, damages to the wheel, loose frets, etc. So any advantage I had on a specific "wheel" would be removed when they do any basic upkeep on the "wheel", making it a game I can't off the top beat, and can't simply wait for an opportunity to WI/WO with.

Again, show me a mathematically sound theory about how to beat roulette off the top, and I'll produce the needed bankroll. But I joined this site, simply because I wanted to see how this thread unfolded for the purposes of humor. Some of the site members here, I know, some of them I don't, but I won't pretend for a moment to have ever read the roulette posts here, or on many other sites that I may have read, simply because I've never seen a realized advantage to roulette that could be trained and repetitive.

Because systems don't work, and Roulette can't be beaten "off the top". Prove it to me otherwise, I'll meet you in any casino in the United States any time (within reason) and I"ll watch your system play out. If you can manage to make, say, $40/hr steadily, over a week's worth of playing time, I'll not only pay your expenses, but I'll fund your bankroll and create a team and bankroll them. I've got access to a dozen individuals who will drop what they are doing at the snap of a finger to come work a casino angle that is indeed profitable and repetitive "off the top". I'll even kick back 5% indefinitely to you, and you can retire an immensely rich individual.

 

You're offer makes no logical sense to me.
It would be something like if I claimed to have a goose that lays golden eggs.
You offer to watch it lay the eggs and then get a team of people to collect the eggs and even throw me 5% of the sale of said eggs... when in reality I have the goose and the eggs already... I'm 30 minutes from a group of casinos in AC and within short driving distance of even more in PA - I can take winnings from them as needed without bringing attention to myself.
Perhaps I've given the impression that I'm foolish or don't understand how to make profits with my own creation.
I don't need expenses paid or a bankroll funded - and I have no "need" to prove anything either.
If you are offering to buy the goose - I'm not interested. I'm not a system seller. I also don't think it would be right to sell something that anyone can do on their own given they put the effort into it.
I do however have an interest in pointing people in the right direction (which I've done) and continue to do so.
I think Steve offered 100k as a challenge that it can't be done ? Again, I have to mention - that just because something hasn't been thought of before (or has) doesn't mean it's impossible.
I'm not sure what the ploy is in offering some cash prize for something when the creator of such can make that already. But to each their own.
Perhaps Gizmo would be interested in your offer - I see no benefit to me whatsoever other than the negative result of the casinos making changes to the game itself to defeat the work that I've done.
The house edge (the "pretty healthy house edge to have to overcome.") is so small in reality yet so many fear it as some Goliath they can't possibly overcome.
Playing 1 number for 38 spins flat betting (45 minutes or so) means the house "edge" is 2 units.
I've made 38 bets and the house automatically gets only 2 units as their "edge". Not so bad really is it ?
Considering the interest rate we pay for things (5.26% for roulette as a worst case ?) I don't mind it at all, and it certainly doesn't make the math or the game unbeatable. It's not even a hurdle to jump over - just a speed bump.

 

Oh my, that's impressive. Can you pee standing up as well? `

No, I'm not real impressed with slot players or card counters. You're lucky to eek out enough to cover your expenses or make minimum wage. You're like the catfish in a pond if you're attempting to beat those games. It's like "silver mining" in the casino. It's nothing personal. The edges just aren't there. There's tooooo low. Slot games are futile unless you're exploiting computer glitches. There's real money in glitches, but you'd best keep Bob Loeb or Nersesian on the speed dial.

It sounds as though it's too complicated for you.

However, I've been at this for a long time. I don't use a ballistic computer either.

I'm not interested in anyone's bankroll. I simply don't need it. In my game, I'm basically at the top. Besides, I doubt that as a slot player that you have more two nickels to rub together. And card counting has such an abysmally low edge that it's comical to even consider it.

At least we agree on this. Systems to beat the game of roulette are a fools folly. However, exploiting the gaming device and it's inefficiencies is something completely different.

I don't know who you are, or what you really do. This has risk written all over it for me. Besides, like I said, I doubt that you have more than two nickels to rub together. However...if you want to travel down this foolish road, I will consider taking you up on your offer provided that you increase the stakes significantly. But, I highly recommend that you talk with Munchkin before you take me up on such a wager.

 

You too ?
Great minds really do think alike.

 

Most of them. I travel far and wide. However, if you'd like a specific state, just fill out the form below, post it, and I'll get right back to you, in a jiffy, with the latest location.

 

TG - "Perhaps Gizmo would be interested in your offer..."

Nope. I'm not selling Golden Eggs either. Funny how some guy has a team standing by. I dare them to go to my school for the price of a good gambling book each and then perfect that method as I have. I'll watch for interest over at betselection.cc

 

The burden of proof falls on you. Where all mathematicians and great minds have come to say that Roulette can't be beaten, you, Joe Schmoe, seem to have concocted a measure in which you can beat a casino at an unbeatable game, within a well defined set of rules making it impossible to "system" bet in Roulette? Not buying it, guy.

You talk about the HE on roulette like its not a monster, when most card counters out there are making their living on around or less than 1% with todays' rules. Yet being paid 35 for the true odds of 38, you're giving up something like 8% of the real value of those odds. You might disregard it as 2 units over 45 minutes, and compare it to an interest rate, but all of those things you mention, the 2 unites, the interest rate, and the house edge are a loss.

The minimum you can bet is $3 on a machine, $5 on a table, the table max is something like $1000 on a machine and most tables. I've seen many tables in the 25ish states I've seen in the last 6 months, have table max set at or below $200, most being $100 for inside beds. So you're talking about a maximum potential of a 20 unit spread for any system to work, and since we know the Martingale can't beat that simply because of the limits imposed by the table, what makes you think you can do any better? You haven't made a fortune on this, and I'm offering just that.

My offer to you wasn't to buy the golden goose, my offer to you was to never need money again for life, if your system works.

If you can show me that this system works day in and day out makes a reasonable amount $40ish/hr, not only would I be supplying you with your own bankroll (run your proposed calculations for whatever system you have going and put a number on it), but also supplying you with either a team of your own if you wanted to run one, or an indefinite 5% of what I end up making across the country with my team, forever.

10 guys, 50 hours a week, $40/hr, you're making a passive $1k/week from me, on top of the bankroll I"ll be outright giving you to make your own money at your own pace. With that, comes the knowledge and experience of myself NOT burning plays out across the United States, and the extensive resources at my disposal, like scouting information that you couldn't even begin to put a price on.

I'm not asking you for the Goose, bud, I'm calling you a liar, very clearly, and putting the burden of proof squarely on your shoulders. What do you have to lose? Nothing. What do you have to gain? 100k+ 1k/week+ depending on what the hourly actually works out to.

Hell, if you've truly got a system that works, what's the point of having it without using it? Don't like my % tribute? Lets negotiate it, but without proving anything or taking me up my INCREDIBLY GENEROUS offer, all you're doing is trolling a forum full of gamblers.

I can indeed pee standing up, its been a talent for many years.

Having said that, I don't need you to be impressed with me, sir. If you believe card counting and machine hustling is only barely worth minimum wage, I want you to continue with that belief, as I don't need anymore competition than I already have. But, you'd be a fool to think the +EV isn't extraordinarily high on these plays at times. I know 10 or 11 machines off hand that, when played, offer up a +EV far greater than anything you could ever imagine in your fictitious "AP Roulette" world. We'll have to set aside our differences here for a moment as I get to your next tidbit.

There's nothing "too complicated" for me, Sir. I didn't find a way to beat Roulette's HE without the aid of a ballistics computer determining where I needed to place a bet at the last second. There are, however, ways to beat Roulette via promotions and other offerings, sure, but to just arbitrarily roll up on a roulette game and beat it "off the top", I saw nothing giving any sort of evidence, other than anecdotal reports about wheel bias on european wheels many years ago.

I find one bit interesting, however, its that both you and the other guy seem to be balking at the idea of a free bankroll, never having to spend another dime in your life, and earning a living off of it. If you legitimately knew how, you both would take me up on that offer in a heartbeat, who wouldn't? I didn't become an AP for the show tickets and steak dinners, though they are absolutely divine! I became an AP for the money, and because I have the mental capacity to understand and implement strategies to milk a healthy profit. How many Card Counters do you know that play Poker? Quite a few. How many of them know both and VP strategy backwards and forwards? Not many. Add in machine plays, comp hustling, bonus hustling, you name it. There's very few with my repertoire, and I know how to protect a "play". Having said that, I'd make it every bit worth the OP's while, as well as yours, to show me a real world system that works.

You seem to think I don't have money, but in the time that I've been posting on this thread for a couple days now, I've pocketed $2700 in profit. All three members of my main team (myself included) make over 100k/yr, and the ones that get left at home make on average of about $2400/mo. I'll let you do the math on how much money that comes out to annually, but if you think I don't have two nickels to rub together to make a third, then your perception of slot players is correct, but perception of me couldn't be further than the truth. Most slot players are indeed interchangeable with buffalo hunters, silver miners, and vultures, but that's because most of them like to gamble, rather than print money, I prefer the latter, therefore I don't gamble.

I'm not saying my team isn't without struggle, or that we are perfect, but as god's honest truth, you'll never find a more well versed team of APs in your life in terms of keeping a play secret, not overworking it, keeping a low key from security, and returning profits back to the pool 100% of the time.

Lastly, what stakes do you need? What references do you require? Need a bank snapshot? Picture of my personal floor safe? Hell, I'm a businessman at the end of the day, Sir, the offer is out there of 100k+5% to the OP, and I'm willing to work on that % a little, but its not like I'm going to hand you a million up front for a system you won't tell me about so I can test it.

You might as well be selling magic beans at that point, but if its a repetitive, exploitable inefficiency in a game you have, and I can make $40/hr with it, and the math checks out, I'm your huckleberry.

How is it funny that I have a team standing by? Don't you want to be in more than one place at any one time? Especially so if you had a license to print money, right? Its only natural to take someone you might trust and show them how to make a buck, then add a few more, and suddenly you have a team. Did you guys not learn anything from the MIT team, the Holy Rollers, or the Crazy 8?

Chances are, Gizmo, if you gave me your golden goose, I'd hand you back a Platinum one with Diamond earrings. No need to sell it, no need to work it, allow me to pay you a continuous fee indefinitely for your hard work and wisdom, so that you don't have to ever work a day in your life ever again. Once we establish the $/hr rate of your system, we can go straight to your lawyer to draw up the contract. I have no issues at all handing over part of the profits for none of the risk, if its as possible as you seem to think it is.


Bottom line here, fellas, is none of you have a system that works, and you're all trolling gamblers on a forum. That, or you're so deeply rooted as a problem gambler, that your ship has sailed far into the delusions of grandeur.

Either way, offer is on the table if any one of you actually has a way to beat the game repetitively, arbitrarily, and for around $40/hr.

 

Exoter,

I don't need a bankroll, and I don't need a team. I already have both. Like I have said, my team and I are pretty much at the top of our game.

If you're really an AP, then you probably travel almost as much as I do. Perhaps we can help each other out by notifying one another of specific opportunities. This is far more valuable to me. I travel every inch of this country looking for specific games. In the last year, I've been in just about every state that has my game, thrice over. If this is of interest to you, then perhaps we can talk via email, or meet in some location.

 

Yet you somehow found the time to type up such (what you think is) a nice offer. That makes no sense does it ?

Then you have no serious intention of learning how to beat the game - you don't believe that it can even be done - therefore it would be a waste of my time to "entertain" you.

Then you should have no interest here on a roulette topic. The truth is - that you obviously "do" understand that it can be beaten and have even made offers to find out how and to use that info. Again, not my concern or yours - you don't believe it can be done. We're going in circles now.

I'm actually offended that you keep making offers to fund my bankroll. I am well funded. You might have me mistaken for a system scammer who uses the line "I have the Holy Grail but not enough money to play it".

Anyone who knows anything about roulette knows not to ever use a Martingale to chase a loss. That's why I can do better - I don't use that nonsense progression. Also - again offensive - how do you suppose to know what I have and haven't "made" doing "this". Interesting - you just joined here, supposedly don't know me - yet you think that you know my financial status and somehow think making me some offer has me drooling and excited. I'm not.

So then you don't believe it's possible - I won't waste your time. There are a bunch of sub-forums here aside from roulette - which you believe can't be beaten - yet you are making offers to get this knowledge that you say yourself doesn't exist. You see how complicated this is ? No interest in roulette - it can't be beaten - posts 1/4 of your posts since you joined on a thread in a roulette forum - then calls me a troll. I'm sure you see what's clear as day here, but don't let me stop you.

I have no burden whatsoever to prove anything.

Fair enough - then we have nothing to discuss. Enough with the offers then - you believe it's not possible.

I'll keep that in mind - nowhere near the front of my mind though. This conversation is a waste of time.

 

Ahh - "gizmo" is interested in your offer - carry on. Suddenly I saw what was happening. Laughs.
It wasn't about me at all... and here I wasted all that time replying to you. For a genius sometimes I can't see the obvious right in-front of my face lol.

 

We were being "played". Anyway - back to business.

 

Hey, if you've already got it set up and running, don't let me stop on any toes. It sounded, at first, like you and Turbo "had a way" but hadn't implemented it. You'll forgive me if I've grown skeptic of people saying they have a system without ever proving it working, or proving the profits they claim.

Having said that, if you're interested in sharing information, I'm all for that. Who could possibly say no to that? Having a set of eyes in a casino thousands of miles away from me is a benefit, not a burden. And you're absolutely right about how much I travel. I've hit something like 46 states this year alone, and about 22/23 of them in one trip alone over an 11 day period. Traveling is a benefit to my business, as it likely is yours, so if you want to find a way to tell me what you're looking for, without directly stating the "Why" part, that's fine, I can give you a heads up in exchange for information I'm looking for. Information trading is at least a fraction of the reason I travel, either because I'm looking for it, or because I've been tipped off to a location. I'm always game for helping out other APs, even if it wasn't in my wheelhouse.

I'll speak in code for a moment. I'm guessing, based on your wheelhouse, that' you're looking for a more organic game of sorts that seems to have disappeared pretty quickly across the United States without warning? If that's the case, I know exactly what you're looking for and where to find it, leave me a throwaway email to contact you at and I'll shoot you the introduction. (I don't have PM privileges yet). I'll be in the heartland for a few weeks, if you happen to be in the area, drop me a line and we can meet.

Again, like I mentioned to Sir, you'll have to excuse me for being Skeptic of you actually being able to beat a game like Roulette with so many people out there making claims they can't prove. Given what you've said, like using negatives to defend the game like comparing the house edge to interest, or losing 2 units over 45 minutes, it doesn't come off as a "positive" only a prolonged draw down into the red. The problem I have with this entire thread isn't that you claim to have a system, its that there's no tangible proof that backs it up, short of a graph you keep posting, which I could do in 30 seconds and post fictitious results. For your time, I'm willing to compensate if you choose to give ME the proof that I require. Not because I want to use it, but because I want to know what angle you are using to exploit. The way you claim, it sounds like a system, and I know (as an AP) no system can beat it. You don't seem to be violating law, so you can't using devices to calculate ballistics, so what else could there potentially be? Perhaps you noticed a flaw that has gone unchecked, making your method unable to be repeated elsewhere, other than at your location? That doesn't really make it a "working" scheme, does it? Just makes it a fortunate one. Perhaps you found a software of mechanical flaw in a game that alters the results that could be made favorably. But here's the thing, every single one of these results so far has been very machine/location specific. As in, I likely couldn't repeat them at home, unless of course, you have a "system", so here we are full circle. I don't believe its possible to beat the game "straight up", but I make my money on beating games that can't be beaten "straight up" and therefore WANT to believe you, but first WANT some kind of proof that you aren't wasting MY time, or anyone Else's for that matter.

I could show you, today, how to beat 40 different slot machines, whether you live in AC, LV, or in the heart of the country. Can you, HONESTLY, say the same to me?

 

I'm surely not wasting your time am I ? I'm also not trying to convince you in any way of something you don't believe is possible. I'm not a salesman. I have nothing to sell - But it's ok, we have them here and I'm not as stupid as they supposedly think I am.
I stand by my post that started this thread and every other that I've made. I also think it's a waste of time to even reply back unless the topic is about the thread topic.
What I do can be repeated anywhere - on any table, and even RNG. It's math - as I've said before. This is a pointless conversation as I see what's happening here and I won't play along further.

 

Yes, you're absolutely wasting my time if you are unwilling to support your claims.

 

Repeat as needed.

 

I'm just curious, to people comment that you sometimes post a a little "out there", or Delusional?

Because you're quoting yourself, talking to yourself, and not answering the question, and instead of answering the question, you deflect the question and insert your own "I have nothing to prove, why would I give away the golden goose" mentality, without providing a shred of evidence to anything.

Further, the last two comments you made in either thread, directed at me, proved you weren't even reading them to begin with.