Baccarat 19 Percents????

The 19 percents figure is the hold that the Vegas casinos reap for their baccarats game. Now, that always struck me queer how the casinos could capture such an outsized profit on a game that offer cats a house bite of a mere one percents or so. So, can any of you cats come up with a reason(s) for that discrepancy, hey hey????

 

"Hold" and "house edge" are 2 completely different figures.

 

Hahahahahah! Reminds me of why ECD used to PROVE that the game was rigged. It's really pretty simple. In a sentence? Punters run out of money, the casino doesn't!

If there was a rule that everyone could only flat bet forever then the HA would be exactly the same after a significant number of trials. About 1.x %. If you don't flat bet and want to just get into the black column you got to keep raising your bet until you finally do. But you don't because 1) you don't have enough bankroll or 2) you hit the table limit. So most lose 100%.

 

That's not true. The hold is the percent kept of all money won compared to what's bought. If you buy in at 00 roulette for $100 and make a $20 bet on red, lose and walk away, the hold is 20% but the house edge on that bet was still only 5.26%.

 

What a lame explanation. What if she wins? Of course they are 2 different figures but you need to explain the reason or reasons for the disparity. Half baked!
The hold simply means for that period of time usually 24 hrs, the total buy ins from all the Baccarat tables against the roll-over-to-next-gaming-day grand total shows a surplus of percentage usually 15%-25% for the House. The high limit action tables are usually in a separate count.

This clearly shows an obvious statistics of :
1. People trying harder when they are losing compared to when they are winning a.k.a. Dare to lose and Scared to win.
2. Too little Flat Betting
3. Too little Grinders.
There shouldn't be much of a difference between House Edge and Hold if everyone plays as close as possible to the Odds of the game.
Play to play more than Play to win.

 

Just got my information on this topic when I went on Google , casino hold . Got hold of a very lengthy article with rather detailed information .

 

Where do you get the 19 percent figure from?

 

Those figures fluctuate from day to day. What I have gathered is the casinos are more interested in the daily " handle ".

 

There will still be a difference even if all play according to the odds.

Player change chips of $100, every game $1, after 100 games, 45 loss 44 win 11 push nett - $1. That's odds.

But the player continue to play for another 900 games, he never bother to change chips again, he still got $99.

After 100 + 900 games, 450 loss 440 win 110 tie. The odds is still the same of ~1%, but the casino hold is 10%... The player is left with $90 after 1000 games.

If u change it to 10 players 100 games each, or 100 players 10 games each. Or whatever. Some players walk out as winners, some as losers. Some even totally broke. But the odds is still ~1%, and the casino hold is the ratio of total income vs total chips changed. Not total of wagers made..

Hold and odds will not be the same, it's apple vs orange.

 

Total wagers is casino handles.

Casino holds, some casinos reported the % differently, but it's buy out chips vs total winning of casino.

Nobody, usually, play $100 when change $100 chips..

Most will play much more than $100... Even they change only $100. That's why there's a difference between odds and holds and handle.

Odds <> hold <> handle

In Macau, the holds is much more important for casino mgmt and executives. They make sure their customers will stay in casino as long as possible. Continuing to make wagers.

 

Some people buy in for $100 and quit with $50 without the floorperson rating the player. That means the $$ that was dropped is considered a total loss.

Good explanation. But the topic is hold and not handle. In Macau they group all mass players as one. They roughly count the drop vs chips in tray and come up with a number. It's for accounting purpose and does not mean much because as long as customers bet within the limits, there is no control.

 

Hi Craps,

Please read thru my 2 posts.

I only mentioned 1 sentence about handle, but the whole 2 posts on casino hold, and jbs explanation is also correct.

Some casino focus on handle calculations, some on hold calculations.

All these are for account purpose and it means a lot to the casino.

It's their revenue in the end..

The casino hold is reported by casino in their reports. Not to the gamblers... But to their shareholders.

Ur point of view is only on the players side. U tried to see how the players want to play the games.

And ur BIG mistake is stating that odds = hold. When we are talking about 1% odds vs 19% hold.

 

Satisfaction of the casinos shareholders is the prime concern of its management.

 

FTW‼️

 

Let me make it clearer.
If somebody buys in $100 and bet $10 ten times. He has justify the criteria of having a buy in of $100 and having a total of the full buy in in action.
Leaving without having the total buy in action is very little. Most actions are more than buy ins so the original poster was right in asking why there is a disparity between odds and hold. It's not about wins or losses. It's about the casino holding that much over the odds and the explanation is in my 1st reply. You are right there are 2 set of numbers but you can't say they are not related.

 

Both of us are not good enough to explain this earlier.
The real explanation is there are 4 ways to outcome of a bet Bet B loss and win. Bet P loss and win. House Edge say 1% . So in 400 hands the customer will run out of money. This will explain everything if all probabilities of outcomes are equal.

 

The craps got to the crux of the matter when he said hold and house edge are different but related. And he is right when he says the paltry house edge can't be responsible for the 19 percents hold for the baccarats game in the Las Vegas casino. Vegas casino on the -percentages basis make more from the baccarats than from the on arms bandit slots machine, hey hey.

 

In my humble opinion the reason why the hold is so outsize as compare to house edge is cuz cats do silly stuff and thing like make wager on player side of the equation and invoke counter-productive stop win/loss, hey hey.

 

Hi All.

I have explained that hold is not the same as edge. Of cos all the figures are somehow related.

The explanation by Craps, and the understanding by soxfan is always the behaviour of the gamblers.

But if all gamblers bet flat bet, using the best safe methods, the edge is still ~1%. And the hold is still 19%...

Whether u doing martingale or flat bet, the edge will not change, the hold will go higher or lower, each day.

Edge (odds) is known to bettors / gamblers.

Hold and handle is reported to the financial of the casino. It's all about account to the company..

Why hold is 19%? And on average, it's 14% for baccarat worldwide. Why is it so?

Becos we dun calculate the 4 difference outcomes (2 at a time) of baccarat. P win B lose, or B win P lose (tie not counted).

The calculation is to see, for all gamblers within a day, change how much cash into chips, and how much chips back into cash.

The players is rated or not is not important at all to compute the hold %.

How the players play is also not important...

U can martingale 7 steps and keep losing. But another player can anti martingale 7 steps and keep winning..

Hold % is just so simple as, for every $100 cash to chip, how much is not change back to cash...

But here, pple keep viewing it as how the bettors play their games, playing methods and pattern and money mgmt...

The casino dun bother u change $100 and walk out today with $10000...

They just want to keep u happy while playing.. It's not 1 winner to casino.. It's the hundreds or thousands of customers within a period to the casino.. And how much they can HOLD ur capital...

It's the turnover. It's the rolling of chips. Then with the edge in play. In long term, the house always win..

The more we roll, the longer we roll, the higher the HOLD, but edge never change.

 

Here pple keep talking about this and that.. But actually all are empty talks..

And some long timers, can't even understand the casino business term of handle, hold, etc..

They are just gamblers, or theory talking.

They might understand the games, the behaviour of gamblers.. But they don't know how the casino run a business..

Does small casino in a town report hold %?

If u want to see hold%, it's always those BIGGER casino in Vegas and Macau, etc... They r running a business. Hold % is for their reference, not for gamblers..

Gamblers behaviour is totally not related to it..

Just go and Google, or go and read up the finance report of listed casino operators... Learn about hold %.