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Baccarat Interblock RNG Stadium Baccarat...Fair?

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by Bet2Profit, Oct 14, 2020.

  1. Bet2Profit

    Bet2Profit New Member

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    Due to Covid, my local Hollywood (Columbus, OH) casino has not had live dealers for their stadium Baccarat. I'm SO tempted to play their RNG computer, but man I have trust issues... Interblock's website claims that every decision is completely random, (I guess like a CSM) but it sure seems like if your the only player at the stadium it will simply look at where your bet is, and produce the opposite decision. It's uncanny.

    Have a system that is tested through literally 100's of shoes, works perfectly, then the FIRST time it's tried at the casino, blam, it loses to the computer.

    Does ANYONE have info that would lead me to believe the casino RNG is FAIR and as RANDOM as the computer can make it?...Please, I know the casinos are licensed, and they already have the advantage on the games, so why cheat(?) argument. I just know if your odd's are like 12k to 1 to lose a sequence, and it happens RIGHT AWAY when big money is bet, I call BS. But hey, no proof, just results.

    Anyone here play the computer Baccarat at a B&M casino? How are your results?
     
  2. cps10

    cps10 Well-Known Member

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    That’s my home casino as well. I see action over there with Baccarat Roulette and Craps but I haven’t noticed dealers or not. I’ve mainly been playing Pai Gow and Blackjack over there. I wouldn’t play unless the dealers are there honestly. I know that Hollywood is reputable and their games are likely fair, but....coincidence that you lost?

    Just go over by the pit and play there. Worst case scenario is that you lose over there but at least there are TVs there for sports. Well at least there are by the blackjack tables in the center away from the entrance to the casino.
     
  3. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Does the computer shuffle after each hand or play full shoes? If it does a computer shuffle at the end of each shoe only I think it should be adequate, although not ideal.
     
  4. gr8player

    gr8player Member

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    Well, Bet2Profit, welcome to the club.

    Allow me to relate the following happenstance:

    About 8 years ago, I visited the Yonkers Raceway casino in Yonkers, N.Y. with my wife. My wife is a slot machine player and that is what the Yonkers casino primarily offers, so she was in her preferred element. Me? I play Baccarat, so I was just along for the ride.

    As I was walking around, I came upon a bank of machines that offered the Baccarat game....they, too, were the Interblock machines just as you described....no live dealers, just some mechanical screens dealing each hand.

    OK, I figured I'd give it a go. And yes, I, too, was the sole player at this bank of machines. (Frankly, that should've served as sufficient warning against playing these machines as well.) I inserted a $100 bill and proceeded to bet, at $25 per hand (I believe that was the min bet allowed).

    Well, Bet2Profit, needless to say, I lost. And, mind you, I lost not just that hundred, but about $500 more, all inserted at $100 as needed. And I must say, I don't think that I won more than 1 or 2 bets during that entire ill-fated session. And certainly never more than 1 win in a row.

    I left that game feeling as if I were "taken", just as you've experienced. If I bet Bank, the Player's side would out-draw me; conversely, if I bet Player, I was out-drawn by the Banker's side. And I left with the distinct feeling that I never stood a chance against this Interblock machine, regardless of where I'd placed my bets.

    Distrust is the very worst feeling that you can ever have when playing any gambling game, but I remain steadfast in the belief that I was, for lack of a better word, cheated out of my money. I didn't feel as if I were even playing Baccarat; rather, it felt more like I was playing a one-armed bandit.

    Needless to say, I wouldn't put 2 cents into any Interblock machine ever again. I'd strongly advise the same for you. Take care.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
  5. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

    Joined:
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    Gr 8player,
    That Yonkers is not a casino. It is a Racino. The slot and VP machines are Video Lottery Terminals (VLT) controlled from a center in Schenectady NY

    operated by OTB .Same as the Resorts in Queens Long Island. The Resort Casino in the Catskills is Monticello is a bonafide Casino licensed as such by the State of New York.



    Busses from NYC.




    ND
     
  6. Bet2Profit

    Bet2Profit New Member

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    Columbus, OH
    Thank you for sharing your experiences gr8player, I thought maybe I was crazy or was just me LOL..

     
  7. gr8player

    gr8player Member

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    Thanks for your info, Nathan.

    Yes, I'm aware that both the Yonkers and Aqueduct racinos are controlled by the New York State lottery.

    That said, I believe that I read somewhere that the Interblock baccarat machines are independent of the racino slot machine's lottery system, probably in the attempt for the racino to distinguish their Baccarat games from their slots.

    They're trying to convey the idea that their "table games" (all presented in video fashion....no live dealers nor cards) are a "fairer" game for the player....well, Nathan, I'm not buying what their selling.

    Again, we, as Bac players, face enough obstacles in the natural course of playing this casino game....I refuse to add "distrust" to that list.

    Stay well, my friend.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.

  8. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Those Racinos are for suckers . There is no substitute for the real thing .



    ND
     
    mr j likes this.
  9. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Active Member

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    I recently saw this discussion on another forum. Check your state law. Here in NY, the law requires all games to be random.

    I play the Interblock Baccarat game at my local casino with results good enough, (so far), to have me returning for a short session every day. The game does use an RNG, so you may have to play it differently than you would a hand dealt eight deck shoe, where the dynamics change slightly with each card that is dealt. Especially if you're the type of player who sits out hands, waiting for an opportunity. For example, a shoe rich in small cards favors Player, and you might change your bet selection in response. When you play an RNG, the machine could switch shoes with the next hand, wiping out the shortage of high cards, just when you switched to betting Player. Which may be why your strategy that succeeds in a hand dealt game doesn’t do as well against the RNG. Despite this possibility, I still see long streaks of ten or more on either side, nearly every day.
     
  10. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Active Member

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    For anyone interested in shoes for testing. Interblock hands, March 2021. Eight deck, RNG shuffled and dealt, virtual card shoes. Continuous deal. Seamless switch to next shoe.


    PBPBBPBPPBPBBBPPPPPBPBBBBBBBPPPBPBPPBBBBBPPPBBBPBPBBPPPBBPPBBPPPPPBBPBBPBPPBBPPBBPPPPPPBBBPBBPPBPPPBBBBPPBPBBBPBPPPBPBBBBBPPPPPPBPBPPPBPPPPPPBPBPBBBBPPBPBBBPPPPPBBBPBPPPPPPPBBPPPBPPBBPPBPPBPPPB

    PBBPBPBBBPPBBBPBBBPPBBPBPPBBPBPBPBBPPPPBPBPPBPBPPPPPPPBPPBPBBBPBBBBPBPBBBBBPBPBBBPBPPPPPPBPPBBPPPPBPBBPBBPBBBBPBPBBPPBBBPPPBBBPPB

    PBPBBBPBPBPPBBPPBPBPPBPPPBBBPBBPPBPBBPPBBPBPBBPPPBPBBPBPBBBPPPPBPPPBBBPPBBPBBPPBPBBPBBPPBBPBPBPPB

    BPPPBBBPBBBPPPPPBBBPBBBPBBPPPBPBBBPPPBBPPBBBBBBBBPBPBBBPBPBPPBBPPBPBPPBPPPBBBPBBPPBPBBPPBBPBPBBPPPBPBBPBPBBBP

    PBPBBPPPBPBBPBPBBBPPPPBPPPBBBPPBBPBBPPBPBBPBBPPBBPBPBPPBBPPPBBPBPPBPBBPPBBBPBPPPPBBBPPBBPBBBBPPPBPBBPPBPB

    BPBBPBBPPBBPBPBPPBBPPPBBPBPPBPBBPPBBBPBPPPPBBBPPBBPBBBBPPPBPBBPPBPBPPPPPBBBBPBBBPPBBBPPPPBBPBPPPBPPPBPPBPPBPPBPPPPBPBBBBB

    BBPPPBPPBBPPPPBPPBBPPBBPBPBBPBPPBPBBBPPPPPBPBBBBBBBPPPBPBPPBBBBBPPPBBBPBPBBPPPBBPPBBPPPPPBBPBBPBPPBBPPBBPPPPPPBBBPBBPPBPPPBBBBPP

    PPPPBPBPPBPPBBPPPPBBBBBBBPPBPPPBBBBPPBBPBBBPPBPBPBBBPBBBPBBPPBPPPBPBBPBBPBPBBPBPPBBBPPBPPBPPPPPPBPBPBPBPPPBBBBPPPPBPPPBBBBBBBPPPBBBPBBPBPPPPBPBPPBBBPPBBBBPBBBBPPBPPPBPBPBBBPPBBPPBBPPBBB

    BBPPBPBPBBBBPPBBPBPPPPBPPPBBBPPBPBBBPPPBBBPBPBBPBBBPPBPPBBPPBPPPBPBBBPPPBPBPBBPBBPPBBPBPBBBBBBBPPBPBBPPPPPBPPBBPBPPPPPBBPPBPPPPBPPPPPBBPPBPBPPBBBBPPPPBBBPBPBBBPPBBBPPPPPPBBPPBPPBPPPBPBPBBPPPBBBPPPBBBBPBPBPPPBBBPBBBPBBPBBPPBPBPPPPBBB
     
  11. Jimske

    Jimske Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Maybe someone would like to count up the P and B and the run lengths to compare with expectation. My guess is not too far off
     
  12. Frank Kneeland

    Frank Kneeland Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Just use Chi-Squared.
     
  13. Jimske

    Jimske Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Do. Don't just talk.
     
  14. Frank Kneeland

    Frank Kneeland Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Occupation:
    Professional Gambler
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    Las Vegas
    Seriously, you want me to do the math work. Very well. This is not my area of "done it before" expertise.

    I'll take on the project but only because it's an excuse to do some math on which I'm rusty. The rest of my life has nothing after the "=" sign.

    Methodology:
    1. First determine expected probabilities for all frequencies of occurrence. 1 in a row, 2 in a row, 3 in a row, etc...
    2. Second log the actual frequencies of occurrence for those events.
    3. Run Chi-Squared to calculate the standard deviation between expected and true.

    Do you see any fault in this logic?
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2021

  15. Frank Kneeland

    Frank Kneeland Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    I'm thinking I can write a python script to parse the data. Unless you already have it in the format I would need???
     
  16. asymbacguy

    asymbacguy Active Member

    Joined:
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    69
    IB RNG baccarat stadiums are totally sensitive of actual players' bets and we have made several experiments to confirm this.

    It's sufficient to join the table as single player then setting up a 5 or 6-step martingale by wagering the opposite side.
    The vast majority of the times this martingale will win just 2 or 3 times, then unfortunate probabilities will magically happen despite their unlikelihood. So long streaks appear when we were progressively betting the opposite side.

    It's funny when IB says 'we're providing random results': we're laughing as we know by a 100%% precision they are not. Of course always in their favor and never in player's favor.
    Their devices act like a slot machine (so not giving a chance to player's guess) and not offering a jackpot.

    Moreover, very few bac players would play at a CS production, let alone at a electronic based production.
     
  17. TwoUp

    TwoUp Well-Known Member

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    From my reading of various patents on casino games there is usually a feedback element somewhere in the system. The way RNG's work is by continuously generating a stream of outcomes based on an original random seed, so they are in effect pseudo RNGs but effectively random as the precise moment you press the button is essentially random at a microsecond scale. The random seed is provisioned when the machine is originally commissioned. There are strict protocols and regulations around establishment of the seed value as it must be different in every machine and it rarely if ever gets changed due to the audit requirements.

    Now when you place a bet and press the button, the machine will sample the current random value which is always being continuously generated. There is always the possibility deep within the black box logic of the game that if it doesn't like the number it just takes the next one, or any of the ones after that within a few microseconds of the button press. Given that tens of millions of numbers are generated every second, who is to say what exact nanosecond the button was pushed. The outcome is still random just more favourable to the house when it needs to be.

    If you read the patents on a game like bubble craps using a physical dice, you realise there are quite substantial feedback mechanisms for monitoring the dice actuators and continuously reading the dice orientations while the voice coil rumbles the platform. This is also a perfect feedback mechanism for deciding when to stop shaking. Simply rank all bets by payout and keep shaking until the outcome is on a more favourable outcome for the house. Still completely random and compliant with regulations.
     
    asymbacguy likes this.
  18. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Active Member

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    Aug 19, 2019
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    April Sessions were good for the Banker only bettors.

    4/21
    BBBBPBPPBPBBBBPPBPPPPPPPBPBBBBPBBBPBBPPBBBBBPBPPPPBPPPPPPPBPBBBBPPPPPPPBBBBPBPBBBBBBBPPPPBPPPBBPPPBPPPPPPPPPPBBBPBBBPPPBPPBBPPBBPPPPPPBBPBBPPPPBBBPBPPPBBPPBBPBBPBPPBBBBBBPBBPBPPPPBPBBPBBBBPPPBBPPBBBBPBPBBPBBBBBPPPBBBPPBPPBPBBBPBBPBPPBPPPPBPPBBPBPPBBBBBPBPBPBPBPBBPBPBPBBBBBPPBPBPPPBPPBBBBPPPBPBPBPPBPBBBBPPBBPPPBBBPPBBBBPBPBBPBBBBBPPPBBBPPBPPBPBBBPBBPBPPBPPPPBPPBBPBPPBBBBBPBPBPBPBPBBPBPBPBBBBBPPBPBPPPBPPBBBBPPPBPBPBPPBPBBBBPPBBPPPB

    B Only = 12

    4/22
    BBBBBBBBPBBPPPBBPPPPPPBPBBBPBBBBPPBPBPPBPBBBPPBBBPPBBPPPPBPBBBPPPBPPBPBBBBPBPBBBPPBPBBPPPBPPPBBPBBBPPBBPBBBBPPBPPBBBBPPBBBBBPPPPBBBPPBBBBBPPPPBPBBBBPPBPPBPPPBPPBPBPPPPBBPPBPPBBBPBBBPBPPBPPBBPPPBBBBPBPBBBBBBBBPPBPBPPPBBBPPPBPPPPBPBPPBBPBBBBPBBBBBPBPBBBBBPPBPBPPBPBPPBB

    B Only = 22

    4/23
    BBPBBPPPBPPBBPPBBBPPPBBPPPPBBBPBPBBBBBPPBPBPBPBBBPPPBBBBPBPPPBPPPBBPBPBBBPBPBBBBPBBPPPBPPPPPPPBPPPBBBPPBPBBBB

    B Only = 3

    4/25
    PPPBPBPPPPPPPPBPPBBPBBPBPBPPPBPPPPPPBPBPBPBPBBPBPPPPBBBBPBBPBPPBBPPPPPBBPPBBPPBPBPBBPPPPPBPPPPBBPBPPBBPBPBBPBBBPPBBBPPBPBPPBBBPPPPPPPPBPPPBPPBPPPBPBBPBPPPPBPBBPBBBPBPPPBBPBPBBPPBPPBBBBBPPBPBPPBBPPBBBBPPBPPBPPPPPBBPPBBBBPBPPPBPPPBPBPBBPBPPBBPPPBPPPBBBPBPPBBBPPPBPBBPBPPPPPPBPBBBPBPBBPBPBBBPBBPBBBBBBBBBPBBBBBBPPPBPBBPBPBPBBB

    B Only = -18

    4/26
    BBBBPPPPBPBBBPBBPPPBBBBBBPPPBPBPBBBBPPBBBPBPBPPPPPBBBPPBPBPPPPBPPBPBPBPBPPPBPBBBBPBBPBBPPBPPBPBPBBPPBBPBPPPBBBBBBBBPBPPBPBPPPBBBPPBBBPPBBBBPBBPBBBPBPPPBPPBPBBBBBPBBBBBBBPBPBPBBBBBBBPPBPPPPPBPBPBPBBBBPBPBBPPPPBPBPPBPBBBBBPBBPBBPPPBPPPBBPBBPBBBBPBPBPBBPPBBPBPBBPBBPBBPP

    B Only = 31

    4/29
    BBPBBPPBPBBPPPPBPPBBBPPBPPBBBPBBBPPBPBBPPBPPPPPPPPBBPPBPBBBPBBBBBPBBPPBBPPPPPBBBBPBPPBBPBPPPBBPBBPBBPBPPBBPPPPPPBBPBPPBPPBBPPBPPPBBPBBPPPBPBBPPBPBPBPPPPBBBBPBPBPBBBBPPPBPBPPPPPBPPPBBBBPBBBBBBBBPBBPPBBBPBPBBBPBBPPBPBBBBBPBBBBBBPBPPBBBBBBPBPBPBBBPPBPPBPBPPBPBPPPBPPPBBBBPPPBPBBPBBBPBPPBPBPBPBBPBPBBBPBBBPBBBBPBBBPPBBBPBPBPPBPBPBBPPPBBPBPBBPBPBBBPBPPBBPPPBBBPPPPPPBPBPPBBBPPPPBPBBBBBBBBPBPPPPBPBBBPPBPPPPPBPPPBBPPPBBPPPBPBPP

    B Only = 13
     
  19. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    USA
    Banker wins more than player. Deduct commission for each B and you will have a different picture.
     
    Junket King likes this.
  20. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Active Member

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    Betting Banker only for those April hands, would have net 18 units after commissions.
     

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