Las Vegas GF Chat Room

Parx Casino table games also began that first year (2010) that I was back and forth between Vegas and Philly. Pa casinos had opened the year before, but table games were a year behind as it took a second act of the state legislature to approve table games and rules.

Pa had some of the best BJ rules in the country (s17), so I was eager to try them out. So first trip to Parx there were two things that were problematic. First the discard trays were enclosed and a dark red color so you could not see the discard pile. Card counters need to see the discard tray to estimate the cards that have been played and cards remaining to be played. This discard tray made that impossible.

Even more problematic was the chip buy-in. It was electronic. A player would put cash into the bill collector at each spot and then that credited amount would show up on a little screen at each seat and you would bet from that screen. No chips. This speeded up the game with no payout, buyins or color ups, but much more problematic for card counters was every wager was electronically monitored, meaning the casino could see exactly when a player increased his wager with the count. The day I saw that, I thought oh boy, that is the end of card counting, but I never saw it spread anywhere else and when I returned to Parx the next year, that technology was gone and you were back to buying chips, as normal.

I always wondered if that was either to expensive to maintain, or maybe there was some kind of ruling that it was illegal because the casinos could track a players wagers electronically. Either way, it didn't catch on or spread...thank God.

 

Goes to show how often I went to PARX even though it was right in my back yard. I guess I was too busy going to the AC casinos instead because of better comps, better food options, free player lounge food and drinks, and cheap entries to buffets.

I had no idea they even had those electronic contraptions at the blackjack tables at some point.

It must be expensive to maintain the shuffling machines as Hard Rock and Bally's got rid of them and they went back to hand shuffles.

In your years of playing blackjack, do you think the automatic shuffling machines make any difference in winning?

 

Good call.
This is really strange, beyond the pale...

 

Yeah, I don't know how long that electronic chipless deal lasted. All I know is the next year when I visited, it was gone. I can't remember if the enclosed discard was gone as well, although it certainly is now. There is a way around that hidden discard tray problem though as I play a couple places that also have at least partially hidden discard tray, like Rampart Casino in Summerlyn (next to Suncoast). They have a smoke red discard tray that you can't see the cards. You get around that by counting 2.8 cards per player and dealer, which is the average per round. So if 4 players and the dealer are playing that is 14 cards used per round on average (2.8 x 5). So after 10 rounds 140 cards have been played or between 2.5 and 2 an 3/4 decks, meaning on a 6 deck game 3 and a quarter to 3,5 decks remain. It is just an extra step. I would rather not do it, but if you have to you have to.

So to your questions about shufflers. Oh boy. My views are not very popular concerning ASM.

So lets start with CSM (continuous shuffle machine). These render card counting almost useless. Because there is a "muck" buildup of several rounds before the cards are re-inserted, if you had a very high count for those couple rounds, the next round would be at a slight player advantage. But it is a lot of work and waiting to get to that tiniest of advantage and bet big for a round. There is a technique that isn't really card counting that can be used to gain a slight advantage with CSM's but it is a very small advantage, and not worth the time and effort.

ASM (automatic shuffle machines). these are the machines that the dealer plays the shoe through like normal, but when the cut card comes out they just have the machines shuffle. These machines can be rigged to place the cards in any order desired, including some clumping of cards together that make is more of a house advantage. And with this clumping, how the cards are cut will not matter.

The machines do not come from the factory will this ability or mode in tact, it requires a minor re-program, but I have seen the program done (I briefly owned and took possession of such a shuffler) and this re-program takes about 60 seconds.

There are some that don't believe this, but it is true. If the machine has the capability to shuffle the cards back into sequential order, why on earth would anyone not believe that same ability couldn't be used to put the cards in any order desired. Of course this non-random, clumping order would be illegal in every jurisdiction in the U.S., but I have seen it on two occasions. Players should just be aware and vigilant. What to look for is a high count (favorable to the player) on every shoe or time through the cards, but the player just doesn't win any of those larger bets. He loses almost all, including double downs which all draw small cards instead of 10's.

These things, this kind of clumping happens naturally, so it is kind of hard to really be sure, but I am talking a very high count every shoe or time through the cards and THAT does not occur regularly.

I am sure there will be comments about my position....there always are. I am not interested in debating. All I am saying is players should be vigilant.

 

Oh by the way, these machines both CSM and ASM must be leased and there is considerable expense in doing so. That is why you see places that had them go back to hand shuffling. It is really not worth the cost to the casinos.

Now, I may not be up to date. Has the patent expired? If not it should soon at which point there should be other models by other manufacturers on the market, in which case casinos may be able to purchase the machines (one time cost) rather than leasing. This may have already recently happened, I don't know. I should look into it.

 

Just stopped in to say Axel OWNED MDawg in that last exchange and I’m thinking he’s happy with how it turned out.

5 days off means nothing to him while it is the world to the other guy. Especially since he is in Vegas now and we are all expecting the biggest winning trip report yet.

 

I have the exact same view about those machines whether it's true or not.

I was happy that Bally's and Hard Rock returned to hand shuffling as I feel like I'm faring better at those hand shuffled $25 blackjack tables. Tropicana has it too on some $50 tables and all $100 tables.

So, just about all $100 tables in every casino does the hand shuffling except Harrah's. They still have the ASM even in the high roller pit, but you can request a hand shuffle.

I don't ever play the CSM tables. I almost never see a winning streak on those tables, so you can almost never press your bet.

 

Yes he did! Axel is one of my fellow AP's that occasionally advises me to just let the Mdawg crap go. No one believes it now anyway (as evident by the 1/2 start rating).

But then, Axelwolf will jump back in, ignoring the very advice he gives me. I don't blame him, we all, every AP, math guy and real player, gets to the point where we just say, WTF...ENOUGH! And next thing you know....

 

Interesting that no one else said what I'm doing is strange but you so far.

If I took a poll to see if anyone would like to do the same, i.e. to be able to stay in casino hotels for 2 years straight along with 2 kids, would they want to do it?

I don't know if I could do a poll here, but I can do it on another forum so I am going to do that and see what other gamblers think.

I always ask my kids if they want to go home and the answer is no. They rather stay in casino hotels. We have an inground pool at home, but it's only good for 2.5 months a year. Here in AC, they get to swim all year around. They eat better as they are getting fatter, so we go for walk for at least 1/2 hour everyday now.

The main reason we did the cyber classes is because my wife is in a high risk group with the COVID.

She almost died in the early months of 2020 and she would have been dead if I didn't hear her gasping for air in the middle of the night and I had to drive like a maniac to take her to the emergency room. She barely made it, so it wasn't worth sending the kids to school where they could bring it home.

So, it wasn't because I wanted to gamble that we are staying in AC.

My wife is a CNA and she just messaged me this afternoon that just about everyone at her nursing home is infected and she is getting sick. She thinks she shouldn't come to AC this week. She got the COVID from her work and she brought it home every year since and we all got sick every year.

 

I did describe your attempts to "reach out and touch KJ" as "creepy."

 

First go ask the hotel manager and head of security what they think about your activities...

 

Interesting that you're so obtuse.

Josh Ercole, executive director of the Council on Compulsive Gambling of Pennsylvania said gambling disorders lead people to make poor choices.

https://wlvr.org/2022/05/kids-left-...across-pa-wind-creek-has-a-plan/#.Yv7RWnbMI2w

https://www.mcall.com/news/breaking...no-parents-children-alone-20190225-story.html

 

East coasters are so paranoid they wear masks when they're on the phone. And as kew has proven, they have zero real life, so they need to concoct story after phony story about their truly unremarkable lives.

Or of course, you could be Dan from VCT. Today he bragged about getting another whopping $25 freebie comp for wasting hours arguing with the front desk about something true winning gamblers wouldn't give two shits about.

Raise your hand if you still believe he isn't an online poker addict and loser.

 

You gonna ask him if you can rub his peepee....and the next thing you know...

 

Gee willikers Rob.

Most folks kick back, relax, and try to savor whatever time they have left as their life comes to a close, but you seem hellbent on mischief.

Careful: if you don't mend your ways I see no happy ending for you: only a one-way ticket on ...

[link= Aboard![/link]

 

You almost have to feel sorry for Rob, MrV.

He is run off VCT when Dan Druff calls his bluff about his fake claim and humiliates him. That leaves Rob here reading and attacking Druff from a far and wishing he was back there. I have no idea why, since the only thing happening there is continuing blabber about climate change.

Then while here, he continues his streak of being wrong about almost everything. He was so sure LG was a sock puppet of me, that Rob confidently stated so not once, but at least twice. Wrong, as usual! And also as usual, not a big enough man to admit when he was wrong, which is really sad and shines a light on what a small man he is.

Rob has bonded with the Dawg here. Probably the only person that fewer people believe their bullshit stories than Singer himself. 1/2 star rating. And the funniest thing.....Rob was right about the Dawg before he befriended him. Rob was right for once, and dropped that to be wrong. Amazing.

 

hey MrV,

Just in case you missed it (I initially did), Mdog started a new thread in the personal feuds section to attack us calling us moribund cows. Wow, that hurts. What are these guys 3 grade? Such nonsense does nothing to boost his credibility about anything he says now. He is now Singer in that you can't believe anything he says. He has a 1/2 star rating! If he says the sky is blue, you can bet it isn't.

 

LOL

This should be good...

 

Every now and then when I log onto this thread, I am taken to page 1, where I am reminded that this is Moses's thread and I find myself wondering if he is ok. It has been a while since we heard from him, and last, we did hear he was due to start treatment in early August.

Although Moses and I have had our differences, some major differences, and some that got blown up bigger than they ever needed to, I sincerely hope he is doing well and responding well to treatment. Moses, if you occasionally read, just know I am thinking of you and wishing you well.

 

Good thoughts going out to Moses, hope he's OK.

We may flame one another on these gambling forums but at the end of the day we're sort of one big (dysfunctional?) family.