Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Yes please, post the screen shot, of the IP match that is

 

Thanks for the last post Johno! Still my fav GG poster.

 

No it's not the most pronounced event to happen in my life in the last 18 months. I just don't discuss most things that happen in my life, or even most things that occur as part of my blackjack career on this site. As a matter of fact I am on a blackjack trip now, that while pretty successful has some problem areas that look to be very problematic going forward. I would love to talk about this at some point (after a little time has passed and we get away from real time), and compare notes and experiences with some other players that may have experiences these issues. BUT, there just doesn't see to be much interest in any of that kind of discussion. But what there is.....is a thread devoted entirely to WoV, so I post my thoughts there. And my thoughts concerning WOV are appropriately about my experiences. so STFU, Junket King. If you don't like it petition the administrators here to close the thread. Otherwise my posting in the thread and on the subject matter is appropriate.

As for BJ's, in the case of both blackjacks and blowjobs....I prefer to receive. And when I am in a giving mood, a hairy, nerdy, funny-looking, geek is not at the top of my list.

But it's interesting that you talk about me being 8 years old, when you are the one that goes to the sexual innuendos like an immature pre-teen boy.

 

kewlj you whine like a prissy bitch, doesn't surprise me in the slightest you are gay, if you had not come out of the cupboard, many would have assumed it anyway {in this particular case, "assume" i.e 'to make an ass out of you and me' is very apt}

"How dare he treat me this way, it's so unfair, somebody please, anybody, Mr moderator pleeeasssee help me, I wrote to him and he ignored me, what a bitch, I'm sooo desperate...

You don't really help yourself do you, coming across as weak & thin skinned, suspended in a state of pyscotic bewilderment being unable to help & advise newbie BJ players. For all we know, maybe behind the scenes you offer to take fresh meat newbies under your wing in return for gratuitous services.

Giving or receiving, Macho you most definitely AIN'T, more like this nice boy (who knows, could be you)

 

My favorite GG poster is FRANK STANTON Welcome back JOHNO.

 

So we can now assume your getting more now than you ever got from manboy?

 

If shit could smell, you guys would smell nice to each other.

 

You gotta feel sorry for the guys at the top because it's hard work screwing people.

 

It's easy not to believe in a god, etc, when you know you're not going to get anything anyway.

 

You bingeing on fortune cookies again?

 

Even a cookie fortune is right every now and then, unless it's about itself.

 

Shack was warned that his actions could come back to haunt him. In an article yesterday in the Las Vegas Sun, Shack gave some blackjack tips. He stuck his nose out into the public. And kewlj left a message in the comments section. And of course there is a thread on WoV about it. The usual suspects came out to stick their noses up Shacks ass and blast kewlj for what he did. Babs, please get a clue. Petty and Rude? If kewlj is petty and rude then what the hell does that make Wattenberger and Shackelford who both righteously fucked kewlj over? But I love it. 99% of the damage to kewlj's reputation was done by Wattenberger and Shackelford. So why should kewlj give a damn about the other 1%?

I love this tactic by kewlj. If Shack or Wattenberger stick their necks out in public, through news media, then messages should be left in the comments section calling on Shackelford and Wattenberger to public apologize to kewlj. That is exactly what I did and will continue to do.

 

If Kewlj was smart, he'd keep his dick suckers (pun intended) shut. There are plenty of people in Vegas that will ruin his "career"

 

Mickey, I was just honoring a promise to Mike. You remember, I told him that I would continue to bring up his unfair treatment of me until the day I die, long after he was gone? Life expectancy in the United States is 79 years and 8 months, so I have a little more than 45 years to go.

Here’s the thing. Shackleford is one of those ‘math’ guys, like Anthony Curtis that has this kind reputation and the media likes to go to in these matters. But the truth is Shackleford is no friend to the gambling public, let alone the AP community. He lost that credibility when he went to work for Venetian and again when he entered into the post sale agreement with an online casino organization. The sale of the sites was fine....that’s business. But to continue with an ongoing relationship, promoting online gambling, is very much in conflict with this reputation of the guy that wants to help gamblers, gamble better and improve their odds.

Shackleford enjoys a cult like following at WoV. The core group of followers worship him and think he is a god and a handful of AP’s are among that number. They meet up with him in person and hang out. They defend anything that he does or says an demonize anyone who dare say anything negative of their idle. Shackleford seeks and I guess needs that kind of approval and admiration.

But outside the little cult that is WoV, Michael Shackleford’s reputation is more toxic. He is not thought of as someone who is pro-AP or even pro-gamblers, but more of a sell out. A guy that goes to the highest bidder.

The Shackleford loyalist will come rushing to his defense and attack and demonize me just as they did at WoV. That is just evidence of what I say. They will say I am “bitter” and “rude” and “petty”. But what I am is honest. And part of that honesty is keeping that promise I made to my "friend" Michael Shackleford. 45 years to go!

 

Again, I thank you for your support, Mickey. That is a very good way of describing it. They did both “righteously fuck me over”. But I am torn between assigning equal blame. Wattenberger set out to do so. He has a long history of feuding and attempting to destroy reputations throughout the blackjack AP community.

Shackleford was initially almost as much a victim as I was. He allowed himself to be used, manipulated and played by someone with an agenda. As a site administrator for a site in a specific arena like AP/gambling, Shackleford had an obligation to draw and fill his site with actual successful AP’s who were willing to share their experiences and not be influenced by a ‘perceived’ friendship or sense that he “owed someone a favor”. But there comes a point where he loses that benifit of doubt. A point that he willingly moved from allowing himself to be used and played to being a willing participant in Qfit’s agenda. That is the point that Shackleford failed as a site administrator and lost all integrity. And to continue to be unwilling to step up and amend a situation he knows and privately admitted that he handled unfairly has become his biggest short-coming. This is where he shrinks as a man.

I want to change the scenario just a little bit. Suppose Arnold Snyder or Stanford Wong, two legends in the blackjack AP community who I and many others have benefited from immensely, were playing my role. The hater’s will attack me saying I am comparing myself to these two Blackjack Hall of Fame legends. In NO way am I doing so. But I did pick these two particular legends and members of the blackjack/AP community for a specific reason. Just like me, and many, many others in the blackjack community, they both were involved in feuds with Norm Wattenberger. The sheer number of people in the BJ/AP community that Wattenberger has feuded with and had ‘war of words’ with should tell you something right off the bat.

But let’s continue with my scenario. Let’s say an Arnold Snyder or a Stanford Wong, came to WoV and participated for 4 years…...4 YEARS….. sharing their experiences and vast knowledge and experiences, for which so many of us have benefitted. Then along comes an outside guy (not a real member of the site) like Qfit (wattenberger), who is involved in an outside feud with them, and demands and uses his influence with the site owner to have them silenced. Would that be acceptable? Would that be fair to the many who have and would benefit from the participation of such an ACTUAL successful AP?

Now one other thing for your consideration. This Wattenberger is NOT a career blackjack AP or AP of any kind really, other than some recreational play. He is a career wall street banker (now retired). His expertise and big contribution in the BJ AP community is his software. For that I give him props. His software is great.

But really, on any kind of site related to gambling and AP play, I want to hear from the members that are actually playing professionally and successfully making a living, not some wall street banker. And that comment isn’t limited to blackjack AP’s. I want to hear experiences and shared knowledge from all AP’s, including the many successful machine players doing things, I don’t understand even after they explain it to me.

That’s what a site specifically targeting gambling and AP is really about. Learning from other members and sharing experiences that others may benefit from. And those that play professionally are at the top of the list of whom I want to hear from, not some wall street banker, recreational player and self proclaimed expert. Don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating that such a player isn’t or shouldn’t be welcome. Everyone should be welcome and I have learned some really incredible stuff from players that were not professional players. Remember, I didn’t lobby that he should not be welcome as he did me.

 

MC and KewlJ,

Let me preface this by saying that I like and respect both of you guys, but I think you're both full of shit on this one. I will say this: If I've got something to say to somebody I'm going to come right to you and say it, so here I am, I'm not going to shoot arrows at either of you guys from the thread on WoV where neither of you could respond.

I'm also going to temper my language a little bit on this thing and not insult either of you because my history of talking to you guys and the respect I have for you guys as gamblers outweighs this one incident.

First, Mickey, this isn't a, 'Tactic,' on KewlJ's part mainly because, 'Tactics,' usually come with some kind of point. Where I will credit both yourself and KewlJ is for using your usual handles on the LVSun site rather than hiding behind some made up crap. That's good, at least. But, this still doesn't qualify as a, 'Tactic.' The reason why is because it accomplishes nothing.

Actually, it does accomplish something. What it absolutely accomplishes is that I am sure that even if there were the faintest glimmer of a chance for KewlJ to ever return to WoV, that's gone now. Snubbed out like a dying candle. Of course, the rants here about the matter had probably already accomplished that. I mean, KewlJ was banned from a Forum, I must have missed the part where his integrity was called into question.

That's all I have for you, MC, otherwise it's nice to see you, as always.

KewlJ,

The thing is that, in my opinion, this is a petty and vindictive action. I agree with what BBB said in that vein 100%. What does it accomplish? Does it advance any possibility of you getting back on WoV? Does it earn you any respect from anyone who doesn't already agree with you? Is it going to get anyone who is not on your side on your side? Does it harm Wizard even in the slightest?

No, it does none of those things.

We have now reached the point where you go on the newspaper's site and trash the Wizard, you've made accusations against me that were false (for which you apologized) you really just come off as vindictive, at this point. You claim that WoV didn't deserve you anyway, well then prove it, by letting go of the whole thing. By continuing in this vein, you do nothing but prove that WoV and Wizard both still consume you.

I want you to dust off your second paragraph, turn it sideways and shove it right up your ass. "No friend to the gambling public," where do you get that? You've done a lot for card counters, but have you exhaustively analyzed almost every different type of casino game there is to provide for people a house edge and Basic or Optimal Strategy, whenever possible? Have you literally done years of cumulative work in order to provide a breakdown of every casino game? You haven't.

Oh my God, Wizard once took a job at the Venetian! How terrible! How sullying to his legacy! The sites and all of the information that has been viewed, literally millions and millions of times, might as well not exist because Wizard worked at the Venetian for a few months.

He took a job making money to provide for his family, what the Hell do you want from a person? Again, shove it up your ass. You're a card counter and do other advantage play. I'm a gambling writer and do advantage play. It's not like either you or I are contributing so much to general society that either of us has the right to play holier-than-thou. I will say this, Wizard has done about 10,000x more for the general gambling public than either of us probably ever will.

When you talk about promoting online websites, again, actually look at the WoO pages. He lists the games. He lists the house edges. He's not selling snakeoil when it comes to these online casinos or trying to fool anybody into thinking they're playing at an advantage. He reviews the casino, he lists the house edges, he analyzes games that he has not analyzed before. Casinos that are Wizard of Odds Approved...etc...I'm not going to turn this into an advertisement, but you talk about it as though he's actually lying to someone about something.

The rest of your post is just circular, self-referential bullshit. Here's my favorite:

See, so you set yourself up to write off any argument against your position or what you did as being because it is a, 'Loyalist,' as opposed to the fact that you are flat out wrong on this one. There's no question that you're bitter, you've got over a year of posting history here that points to that bitterness. We don't even need to discuss bitter.

So, then you say that defending Wizard is just evidence that what you say is true. Self-referential and circular bullshit. I can make an argument and end it with, "Anyone arguing against me is just proving me right," but obviously, that statement would make absolutely no fucking sense.

The mere fact that someone is arguing against you doesn't prove your position, it just shows that there is another position.

It's not even your LVSun comment that has me the most incensed, it is your most recent post, because everything about it is absolutely wrong. Wizard has helped more gamblers than you will ever meet. And if, 'Selling out,' means, 'Providing for your family,' then most of us with families sell out in one way or another every single day. Wizard had a great product and he managed to sell it for an excellent price, Wizard provides a great service for the sites...and he's compensated for that accordingly.

Remember what you said about me losing all of your respect for that thing I didn't even do? Well, you've lost at least half of mine now, unless you choose to recant a few of your statements. Particularly that Wizard is not a, 'Friend to gamblers.' You need to take that one back because that statement makes you so full of shit that it's seeping out of your ears at this point.

Bitter, yup.

Rude, debatable...I don't know that I'd say rude.

Petty, almost certainly.

Here's a new one: Biased. You're allowing what happened on WoV to extend to you making statements about the Wizard that are complete drivel and are not based on anything.

 

Next Post:

Nope, not bitter at all. Who could think that?

 

There's a question of boundaries here.

So far as I can tell, until now KJ's unending feast of resentment based on the little WoV drama between he and the Wiz had been limited to the message boards, and KJ's level of vitriol hadn't gone nuclear.

OK, fair enough.

But the line was crossed when KJ "went public" and blasted his malicious venom to a much larger audience via the newspaper.

KJ: your comment about Mike having "zero integrity" may also have crossed the legal boundary.

I'm referring to the boundary between what is and is not deemed defamatory of a public figure.

How hard would it be for the Wiz to prove "actual malice?"

Based on KJ's screeds on this board: probably not very difficult at all.

Old expression: "Open mouth, insert foot."

Just another day in Paradise, (Nevada), eh?

 

Mission, Your response and those likely to follow by other Shackleford loyalist and worshipers was most predictable.

You, Sir, know NOT what you are talking about. I have most definitely been demonized. Qfit unquestionably set out to do so and Mike, willingly or unwillingly or maybe unknowingly (at first), played a huge role.

Two separate topics. First, Let me explain how I have been ‘demonized’ since you fail to see it. I am basically now an outcast in the AP community because Qfit set out to make that so. Why? Because I had a negative opinion of him regarding his site and the members that he allowed to dominate it with their fraudulent and misleading claims. Qfit views himself as a “brand” (similarly to our president). And that’s what he really is….a brand. He is not an AP or blackjack expert. He was a wall street banker. His connection to blackjack and AP is his software….which he sells to the blackjack AP community. He makes his money OFF of blackjack AP’s.

Qfit banning me from his site, because he didn’t like my opinion, was within his right. It was unprofessional as a site administrator, and showed he did not have the best interest of the blackjack AP community, but rather the best interest of protecting his “brand”. But again, that was within his right.

But trolling me to other sites, just to argue my statements and opinions and using his influence to demand that other site owners participate in his agenda of silencing an unfavorable opinion of “his brand”, was not within his right. That violated my right as a professional blackjack player to share my opinions and experiences. And it took away from members that may have benefited from my participation and not to pat myself on the back, but there have been many. I know this because they have told me. Even members that are now attacking me based on some odd loyalty to Wizard, like Mcallister and RS.

McAllister once told me I was a big influence on him getting into AP and moving to Vegas (at the time). RS, I considered a friend and there was almost no one more willing to stand up to the injustice done to me than him. He even dared go directly to Norm’s site to confront him on his own site concerning his actions at WoV.

But somehow these two and others mistakenly believe this is a war between Mike and I and they must choose side and as loyalists and in some cases actual friends of Mike’s, now attack me. I am not at war with Mike. He treated me unfairly and I will continue to point that out every chance I get, just as I promised him. But the ‘supporters’ and friends of Wizard can’t separate the two. I guess they can’t be supporters and in some cases friends with Mike AND acknowledge that he handled this situation unfairly and just flat out wrong. Mike really had no business injecting himself into this situation as he did. But once he did, his supporters feel the need to take sides and attack and demonize me, just as Qfit intended.

And that is just a tiny sample of what has occurred throughout the community. I am not a guy that socialized with my AP friends. Blackjack AP’s are less likely to do so than other AP’s because we value our anonymity so much, based on circumstances of blackjack AP play. And I, in particular am a bit of an introvert. I have a very small circle of friends. But where I didn’t socialize with my AP friends and colleagues, I did network and communicate privately with quite a number. And that number has diminished as my reputation has been tarnished and it unquestionably has and that was undeniably the goal of Qfit.

Again, Mike may or may not have intended to participate. I prefer to still give him the benefit of doubt, in saying I think and hope he didn’t, that he just got caught up, when someone he considered a friend,used him. But at some point, when he doesn’t stand up fix what even he has acknowledged was a wrong-doing, you can’t just continue to give him the benefit of doubt.


Now, moving on to topic number 2, my statements at LVSun. I do not retract or back away from anything said. Those of us that AP for a living have an ‘us vs them’ mentality when it comes to the casino industry. And most in the community are very unforgiving when someone we considered one of “us” goes over to work with or for “them”. That is just the way it is and has been for a long time, well before my time. I will remind you that it was Qfit himself on his own site, when asked why he didn’t participate at WoV, stated “Shackleford could not be trusted because of his association with Venetian”. This was before the sale of the site to an online gambling organization.

That is the kind of view of many in the community. It is “us vs them” and once you go over, you are a “traitor”. There is zero tolerance and/or forgiveness for most. I am actually a little more forgiving than most. I didn’t hold Mike’s association with Venetian against him as much as others did. It did make me less likely to meet him personally, but I was more than willing to associate with him online, and participate at WoV.

But the association with an online casino organization, is a far different beast, IMO. I am going to agree that WoO/WoV, particularly WoO were about helping players understand the math of games in an effort to be better gamblers/players. And if you accept that as I do, then ads plastered all over the sites, promoting online gambling is kind of sacrilegious. It diminishes and contradicts everything the site stood for years. It is pure and simple and undeniably a sell out. And that happens in business. People sell out or sell their businesses to someone that takes them in a different direction. But to continue an association, with an on-line casino organization, takes it to a whole new level. That makes him no friend to the gambling community….IMO.

 

I respect KJ for publicly going to war. But I will say this -- if you are going to take someone on publicly, using a pseudonym is asymmetric warfare. I don't think you can have it both ways in terms of being a paragon of virtue and staying anonymous. I'm not knocking staying anonymous. I'm just saying that attacking that way makes it dirty warfare, and you no longer have any moral high ground.

Next point. If a sports handicapper has a site, and the site is bought by offshore sportsbooks, then it's a conflict of interest if the handicapper stays on board. Shackleford is in the same position with his site. In fact, there is a smug cynicism in Shackleford's position -- giving presumably effective advice while drawing a paycheck from casinos who figure his advice makes them more money than it loses them. This kind of behavior from Shackleford is a red flag waving that says, "Here's how to win. By the way, the overall addictive nature of gambling will overcome these tips I'm giving you. Good luck and do not blame me." It's cynical bordering on sick. Not that there's anything wrong with that (followers of either Seinfeld or Anton La Vey will agree).

And, finally, KJ, maybe Ferguson (Stanford friggin' Wong) is a hero to you blackjack dudes, but he's done some things that are as questionable as anything Shackleford has done, so don't hand him any halos. Reports are he went to bat (under his own name) for casinos as a presumably paid "expert" witness, along with Kurt Flowers (Anthony Curtis) in New Jersey. These guys do a lot of stuff in gray areas, so let's leave the halos out of it. Plus Ferguson presents himself as having some sports expertise, and he really doesn't.