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Baccarat Can Martingle work?

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by Craps, Aug 14, 2018.

  1. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Enjoy your charade.....
     
  2. John Blerg

    John Blerg Well-Known Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Do u always assume things and the swear to urself those are true??????????
     
  3. Joey Torres

    Joey Torres Active Member

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    Hi Craps,

    Will wait for your post on the 5 step unique approach.

    Always learning from you.
     
  4. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    Looks like you would like a spoon-feed type of method. Ha! Ha! just joking. Remember our edge over the house. When to bet, What to bet and Bet amount. Well the bet amount is taking care of with a 5 step Marty. When to bet is determined by triggers and what to bet is determined by whether you go against or with.

    Let me give you a good way of finding triggers. You don't want something that is complicated. You don't want the frequency to occur too often. You only need to bet once after trigger and NOT 5 times in a row. You don't want to wait forever.

    What have you learn so far? Try a trigger that don't involved Bank or Player. Find a trigger that involves the winning side total. Example: Any side that wins with Natural 8 or 9 what is the next outcome? Follow or against. So the next time a Natural winner occurs you can bet follow or against. If you lose, wait for the next Natural win and bet accordingly. I like these kind of charting because I can take charge of WHAT and WHEN to bet. You can chart other point totals as well. I can wait on any side that wins with a total of 6,7,8 or 9 with 3 cards and see the next outcome whether it is follow or against. Again I put myself in a comfortable state of charting cos these occurrences is neither too frequent nor too rare.
     
  5. John Blerg

    John Blerg Well-Known Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    LOL!!!!

    ROMFAL!!!!!!!!
     
  6. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    Why do you call the Martingale system risky? The math (odds) works out to 50/50 if you take out the house vig. on the game you play. Understand odds and probability. A five step Martingle without the house vig. is 50/50 odds wise and the probability of losing all 5 bets is l in 32. Odds is calculated with the probability of winning over payoff, So 50/50 chances of winning should be paid 1 to 1. Therefore the payoff of a 5 step Martingle is 1 to 1 too. Only difference is one loss needs 31 wins to cover money wise BUT you have a 31 to 1 chance of winning. ON your lucky day, you don't need Martingle. On your unlucky day, you need Martingle.

    Example: Imagine in Roulette you only need to bet 12 numbers on a lucky day. On an unlucky day. you need to bet 24 numbers. You hit more wins but get lesser payoff when you win on an unlucky day so to speak.
     
  7. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to Martingle people will always think of long winning and losing streaks and based their views on those. After a 5 in a row loss you are down 31 units. Right there you have to take care of your losses and quit. If a 5 step Marty can consistently make you 10 units a day with charting., you can easily recoup your losses in no time OR you can win an extra 2 units in your daily routine to make up the loss. Remember IT MIGHT NOT BE 31 units that you lose previously unless it happens right on your first series. This thread has changed to a Martingle discussion that is NOT feasible because of the size of its loss. A 5 step is the best because you can recoup your loss and it produce a lot of winning days. A shorter Martingle is bad too because you will see a lot of bust series and when someone losses it hard to stay focus. They will make all sorts of excuse to bet because we are all Humans.
     

  8. John Blerg

    John Blerg Well-Known Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Sure thing!! So intelligent. Super common things that numerous players attempt. All failure!!
     
  9. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference, whoever you are. You are referring to 'intelligent' people that thinks that they have an infallible system that is supposed to work all the time. There is none and you are right. But the bottom line is if you can recover your losses consistently and not dig a deep hole, why not? This is the type of approach that we are talking about here. There is no such thing as a system that won't fail and you are right. But we are talking about the bottom line here.
    So in everyday life, you are at a loss too. You need to pay for something everyday and that is a loss. You only win on your payday. You only win twice in a month if your paycheck is bi-monthly. So what do you do, you budget your losses (expenses) so that your paycheck will be able to cover them.
    So is my Martingle approach. An 8 unit win a day. If I lose, I'll do a 10 unit win to recover the initial loss plus keeping the casino winnings coming.
    I think you have a big EGO and that is going to STOP you from succeeding.
     
  10. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    The Martingale ? Heck No ! The UP and PULL method is the name of the game !
     
  11. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    You my friend is unique in a way because you ARE teachable.

    First thing first. Aii the people that posted on this thread is right in their own way BUT to dismiss other peoples views and methods will never achieve success. Remember we are defying the odds to succeed. We need to think outside the box. We need to position ourselves on the other side of the table and looked at the way we gamble. There are a lot of people who don't quit after a winning session only to lose it back. After a while they will learn from this mistake i.e. if they are willing to change. That is only a small step to success. During a losing session they WILL chase their losses and you know what, they will be successful most of the time because chasing losses is the basis of the Martingle system. But these kind of gamblers will win 10 days in a row BUT will give everything back in 1 day. This is exactly how the casino wins. Its NOT the house edge or vigorish. They are not afraid of winners for as long as you keep on coming back to gamble.

    to be continue.........
     
  12. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    You have to be a John Patrick disciple. Up and pull is a grinding method. Its not bad but works better for high rollers cos' if you grind low, its better to get a job. It require a high level of discipline.
     
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  13. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    It does. You are correct. The best advice I can get is to keep making bet selections and to watch them go from bad to good in phases. To bet 20 times your base bet value when it looks good. I add to that knowing when flat betting or a few up & pull bets work the very best. Having a realistic goal should be part of all this too. You can one in a rows, 2's, and grind your way up. There can be swarms of 3's in your effectiveness data. You can let a bet ride once and then back off until the next condition that will work because of the phase. It's not enough to see just one trend. Try to see and react to all of them. And yes, you must keep with your discipline.
     
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  14. Craps

    Craps Well-Known Member

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    Anybody who preached and sworn to a method of what to bet in Baccarat is not reliable. After a shoe is over and if you were to look at the scorecard, every shoe is a winning shoe. If you were to make 100 bets in a day and 55 of them were losses, it will be very tough to win unless your bet amount variance is perfect. If you make a big bet like 20x your unit and if that goes down, you will be in hurried mode. That's why I don't like up and pull. What if there is not enough ups? I have used an up and pull method called NEW YORK, NEW YORK. Area code for NY, used to be only 212, thus the progression 212345. You only have to win the first bet. Any where in the progression after that will result in a win even if you lose that bet. After a loss, go back to the beginning of the progression. The waterloo for grinders W L L L L W L L L W L L etc But for a 5 step Marty, for as long as there is no 5 losses in a row, you are in good shape. In addition, you can bet sparingly and no countless recording or tracking of shoes. Just decide on a trigger and if that comes up , looked at the next outcome whether it is following or against and next time the trigger appears make one bet. If bet losses, wait for the same trigger and bet the 2nd bet. Once making a win, use another trigger which is totally different from the first.
    Sometimes, the simplest of things will work.
     
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  15. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Craps,

    Very well explained .If one considers Patrick`s 3 options one can ay many roads lead to Rome .


    ND
     
  16. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    My unit bet is the table minimum. It is used to see results. You bet the table minimum just to keep your seat at the table. You make a bet selection in your mind or on your playing chart that is not actually made with money, a virtual bet. Like you say, you have your pet triggers. You place real bets where just a few wins is enough to win the day. My up and pull is 2, 1, 2, 3, 2. I don't make that bet until I'm up +2 at 20 times my base value or more. And yes, you make money the whole way. So the strategy is to stay at even or better. I won't explain my virtual bet strategies. Figure them out for yourself. The point is to win the day. I also take the progression in steps of one or two steps at a time. There are twice as many singles a there are doubles. There are twice as many doubles as triples. You can know if the strategy that you are speculating on is working well or not. You don't have your head in a black box. You must come to grips with the fact that the strategy that you use will have one of three results when it comes to effectiveness. As a player you must know how to live with all three results and also have the bankroll to back it up. And you really aught to have a lot of experience doing this too.
     
  17. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Some newbies need it all spelled out:

    2 goes to 4, hold 3 back on next step
    1 goes to 2, hold no additional back
    2 goes to 4, hold 1 back, total held back now 4
    3 goes to 6, hold back 4, total held back goes to 8
    2 goes to 4, add 4 to held back 8, total = 12
    If you lose anywhere but the first bet you still win something.
    If you reach 12 big bets up by any means that should be more than enough to make the session worth it.
    As a player you should know when enough is good enough.

    If you start the up & pull at +2 then you lose nothing trying it.

    I can go on a long stay tour at $300 per day. At $100 bets that's just three net wins up.
    That's just 1, 2, in a quick set of steps.
     
  18. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Gizmo,


    My best advise is to read about the 1-2-2 system in Patrick`s Baccarat book. It is not just 1-2-2 but under certain circumstances continues into a series betting mode .


    For recreational purposes only . Play at your own risk .
     
  19. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    ND, you might want to learn about seeing what type of bet fits the current conditions the best. That makes you really good at all this. Three flat bet net wins and out. That's sometimes the best. Sometimes getting out of the slow grind down is the best move. Sometimes killing off the casino with a global swarm of the same characteristic is the best move. Your 1-2-2 sequence could be the kiss of death for you in the right conditions. It comes down to reading the characteristics of the trends and the effectiveness of your timing. None of this can be known in advance. You can only react to things after they occur. But that is the skill of the thing. You control when you bet big and you control how long you will stay with a working trend. Having fixed assumptions will just lead to playing blind. You must open your eyes and see what is currently working. I advise many data tracks to see possibilities from and many strategies to see which ones are working best at the time. Bring a Howitzer to a knife fight. Be a Roulette intellectual. Play like a genius and take the casino out. Win before you ever fight the battle. Enjoy your capabilities. Anything else is just learning the hard way.
     
  20. BETJACK

    BETJACK Active Member

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