1. Welcome to the #1 Gambling Community with the best minds across the entire gambling spectrum. REGISTER NOW!
  2. Have a gambling question?

    Post it here and our gambling experts will answer it!
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Discussions in this section are assumed to be EV- as they are outside of the Advantage Play section. For EV+ discussions, please visit the Advantage Play section.
    Dismiss Notice

Roulette Outside the BOX

Discussion in 'Roulette Forum' started by Frodo, Feb 21, 2019.

  1. Ka2

    Ka2 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2019
    Likes:
    192
    Location:
    Netherlands
    How do you play the progression if I may ask? So an unhit number hits. You play it for 1unit. At spin 54 it hits you make it 2 units, and at spin 102 it hits again you make it 4units? So only double up when it hits, or do you double up after a certain numbers of spins passed?
     
  2. Sharptracker

    Sharptracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Likes:
    290
    Location:
    Belgium
    Total nonsense you mean! If you'd like some information from someone, you're not going to bash in order to get something??!!
    If they bash you, it's because they don't need to know those systems and those variants...they allready know it is crap... and that makes sense.

    All others will bootlick till you can see your face in it or till they'll finally understand the issue...
     
    eugene likes this.
  3. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Likes:
    1,794
    Occupation:
    Self proclaimed Theoretical Philosopher
    Location:
    Near Atlantic City New Jersey
    Yes, that's exactly what you would do.
    There's 2 options...
    1) Be open that the person is onto something and ask them - in which case they might not
    reply with details specific enough and you get nowhere.
    2) Bash and insult them constantly (like a child would do) in hopes that they will keep explaining,
    keep explaining, keep explaining - and each time perhaps revealing more information that they didn't
    in the first place. That seems to be the option that the misfits like best.

    Yes, they are here to learn how to win - because "AP" isn't what it's cracked up to be, and they
    need to have other ways that work - it just makes sense to play a good method along side your
    super secret AP play.

    All of the insults and bashing and nonsense is just to get the poster to reveal more and more info.
    It's either "Do the work and find what's missing by yourself" (and that takes time and effort)
    or bash the poster until they reveal more and more (ie... "Play at MPR and prove it".... where Steve
    can see my bets... lol)
    It's childish nonsense but sometimes it works. Sometimes the screaming kid in the store gets
    the candy just so it will shut the ... up.
     
    Frodo likes this.
  4. Sharptracker

    Sharptracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Likes:
    290
    Location:
    Belgium
    If i wanted to know something about your system, i'd rather try to bootlick you... Most often the holygrailer (that doesn't exist in a math way) will leave except if he's masochistic or if he's deeply into the need of recognition...

    Jerome made a soft, you got the number of spins to overcome...
     
  5. Benas

    Benas Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2018
    Likes:
    156
    Occupation:
    Looking for peoples who play better...
    Location:
    Ania,PL
    AP is not secret maybe best described at all :)
    The only that every play how he like, in AP are no sharp rules :) and that is what you not understand...
     
  6. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes:
    172
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    England
    frodo.png

    Ok I've attached "frodo.zip" (by the way, where are you, Frodo?). As in the last program, the wins and banks are written to a file (frodo.csv) after running each session or series of sessions. This time, if more than 1 cycle is needed (because prior cycles resulted in a loss), the results are recorded for each cycle. Here's a sample output of a file :

    bank,wins,rbank,rwins
    55,7,19,6
    -30,2,78,5
    -83,2,61,3
    -145,1,-1,1
    -167,2,-23,2
    -48,5,60,8
    -154,2,26,4
    -107,6,109,7
    -154,3,170,6
    -58,2,-22,3
    -59,3,49,5
    -91,2,89,4
    -145,2,179,6

    You can now open this in a spreadsheet and easily calculate the banks and wins (averages, etc) for both the "Frodo" bet selection and random bets. The random outcome results are headed "rbank" and "rwins". Again, the question of interest is : are they significantly different?
     

    Attached Files:

    Ka2, Mako and Frodo like this.
  7. Frodo

    Frodo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Likes:
    64
    Location:
    UK
    Constant insults. Disrespectful, rude, uneducated and off topic clutter.
    That is what you, Sharptracker, Dr Sir, Bago and a few other have posted on this thread and forum.
    Over and over and over again.
    I`ve asked you politely to STOP POSTING crap on this thread.

    I have had with this. You are NOT Welcome in here.
    Open your own thread and post your crap there. Sharptracker, Dr Sir, Bago, Nathan Detroit, Eugene and all other AP players. I get it, you don`t like systems. You don`t like players that test ideas. I ask you this, when is the last time you posted anything meaningful EVER in here?

    I will add you and the others on the ignore list, i feel it is the only way to filter this river of insults.
    You have not posted anything useful in the past, present and you will not post in the future.
    You are abusive in your comments to the other users.
    Spare me of the gifs and images.

    Everything has a limit.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    Ka2 likes this.

  8. Frodo

    Frodo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Likes:
    64
    Location:
    UK

    Thank you, Eugene

    I`ve been away on a trip and did not have access to the computer yet. I`ll continue to post the results of my tests in the following days.

    Cheers,
     
  9. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes:
    172
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    England
    You mean Jerome? :cool:

    I've just realized that this could be confusing because if several cycles are needed then the bankroll balance carries over between cycles, but this will make it hard to analyze the results of a session (because you won't easily see where a session ends), so I should modify the program to only output the results for each SESSION, then you'll be able to compare session results.
     
  10. Sharptracker

    Sharptracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Likes:
    290
    Location:
    Belgium
    Jerome, i assume you're doing this to help him to realize that it doesn't make better than my caretaker 's system or anything else.

    I just wonder how many "loop cycle variant" he'll need to realize it... Good luck!
     
  11. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes:
    172
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    England
    There are plenty of system players who dismiss AP play (you yourself suggest that it's not "what it's cracked up to be"), usually because they think that today's casinos conditions have made it obsolete (it was ok 50+ years ago, they say). When APs assert that you can still do well they often get insulted too, just as the APs insult the system players. Maybe the system players are also hoping that if they throw tantrums then the APs will reveal more of THEIR details? So it's not as one-sided as you're suggesting.
     
    Frodo likes this.
  12. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2016
    Likes:
    415
    Location:
    united kingdom
    some of these 'system' guys sure do get temperamental! :rolleyes:
     
  13. Bago

    Bago Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2017
    Likes:
    326
    Location:
    Mars
    • Violation of Rule #1
    Jérôme, you can now code Turbo's HolyGrail, he put off his VIP private profile at Roulette Simulator. This motherfucker lied since a long time, the HolyGrail consisted in playing hot numbers/repeaters that show above the mean/average, but as you can realize, it relies on betting the unhit number in a street when the two others hit!. What an asshole, and then this cry baby complains when we are showing him all his bullshit/contradiction claims!, that we are not making efforts to understand! LOL!
     
  14. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes:
    172
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    England
    The problem is that there are so many variations and tweaks, and I can't code all of them, although it's possible to code "families" of systems where the program has options to change variables (as I did with the first program). And it doesn't help that nobody can agree even which principles should be used when designing a system - (hot or cold numbers?, cold then "becoming" hot?, progression or no progression?, which type of progression? etc etc).

    Those that do try to narrow the options down (by excluding what doesn't work) don't even seem to realize that they're being inconsistent. For example Turbo says triggers don't work, but he uses them. When there is no proof of concept then basically anything goes.
     
    Frodo likes this.

  15. Frodo

    Frodo Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2019
    Likes:
    64
    Location:
    UK
    Thanks, Jerome,

    I`m still playing around with the excel formulas. In this test i`ve let the numbers until spin 185.
    Live table results Wiesbaden.
    1541 units
    2908 spins
    flatbet 1 unit.


    Captureddf.PNG
     
    Mako likes this.
  16. Sharptracker

    Sharptracker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2018
    Likes:
    290
    Location:
    Belgium
    Hopefully, i guess they got a million of variant in stock... And what if you play the hot that became cold before getting hot again? Hmmm and what if we play the number only after 0 came Jerome? And don't worry, as soon as i'll meet a losing session, i'll analyze it and modify again & again :)
     
  17. Jerome

    Jerome Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2018
    Likes:
    172
    Occupation:
    Self-Employed
    Location:
    England
    I've modified the code to fixed the output file problem so if you want to use the program to analyse data you should download the new version using the link in this post. Here's a sample output of 5 sessions :

    bank,wins,rbank,rwins
    15,5,15,5
    62,18,-46,15
    -131,16,-59,18
    14,5,-58,3
    35,5,-73,2

    I'll post some more results later and show how to test for statistical significance (if anyone's interested, lol).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Mar 3, 2019
    chef, Mako, Wally Gator and 1 other person like this.
  18. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2015
    Likes:
    1,794
    Occupation:
    Self proclaimed Theoretical Philosopher
    Location:
    Near Atlantic City New Jersey
    I'm not sure about that - "AP" isn't hard to figure out. Unlike what they want everyone to believe, it's not
    a magical, mystical art.
    You visually detect a defective wheel (not hard to do at all if it's there).
    You chart numbers and find the bias.
    You play the bias numbers/hot numbers in this case.
    "Oh it's more than that, it's not just about hot numbers... etc etc etc"
    That's all it is.
    Computers are AP ? No idea, that's just cheating of course... nothing magical there - the computer
    clocks the ball and wheel and gives a prediction (probably close enough to win with).
    And DS ? Still nonsense to discuss - a wheel going CW and a ball going CCW and someone claims
    the dealer can then "hit a section" they want at will. Nonsense and anyone with a brain knows this.
    (Unless they spin the wheel veeeeeeeeeeeeery slowly and release the ball veeeeeeeeeery gently...)
    To those of us who sit at the real table and play - that "sh*t" doesn't happen lol.
    "AP" is just a thing, it's not secretive and the casinos know full well all about it -
    they can defeat any "AP" if they want on the spot (literally) - but..... who's the "AP" then ?
    Still the casino.
    That means they hang out at forums and try to figure out how to win - while bashing those
    who do the work. Strange.
     
    Frodo likes this.
  19. Mako

    Mako Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2018
    Likes:
    429
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    It's all you Ed, we're all just playing in the sandbox you built. Thanks for all your help and research in this area, it's made it so much easier to identify and recognize patterns that happen over and over and over, in both small and large spin sets. Ultimately it really is all about the horse race as it turns out, and you provided us with the racing form. Cheers.

    I'm playing it the first way you mentioned Ka. Waiting for unhits to wake up, leaving the bets on them as they go, doubling up on any hit, and getting out either when a significant amount of profit has been gained for that attempt or the negative balance on the BR doesn't make sense to continue in comparison to the # of 8u and 16u bets that are active.

    Initially I wanted to do this version simply to watch the raw data come in, to see how the unhits woke up and became hot, how that flow went each cycle, and to learn how large the draw downs could get to with no rules in place. I expected to then have to tweak the approach over time, adding a minimum interval filter to the unhits each cycle, removing #s in profit by say cycle 2 of the session and replacing them with freshly awoken unhits, etc.

    Surprisingly to me, the % of sessions that one of the unhits in the first 37 spin cycle not only wakes up, but goes on to win the race over the next 3 cycles, is somewhere in the 65% range. You win those sessions every time so far, I haven't had a session where I was on the most hit # with a positive progression for 100-150 spins that didn't generate a profit.

    The other 35% of the time, where an awoken unhit doesn't go on to become the lead horse, one of two outcomes occur. First, either you're on the second, third, and fourth horses, or the second and fourth, or the third and sixth and seventh, or whatever. In those cases you're still getting enough hits to either stay around your base BR for the session, or slightly lower, and you end the session when you feel it's time to reset/try again.

    Second, the session just hits every unhit that wakes up at, or below, expectation, and your BR draws down to the point where you're 150+ spins in, you're down to the point where a single 16u hit isn't going to turn a profit, and you decide to reset and try again. So far this "loss" session has occurred 15% of the time, at an average loss of -390u. The 85% of sessions that have won, netted an average gain of +516u.

    I expect these numbers to change, we'll see how it goes, but obviously the foundation of the concept is one that deserves attention. Plus it's fun to play, it beats the hell out of testing some 80-step parachute that nets +1u once you're in recovery for two hours for example...:p
     
    Ka2, Frodo and TurboGenius like this.
  20. Wally Gator

    Wally Gator Member

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2018
    Likes:
    34
    Location:
    USA
    @Jerome, just wanted to say again, thanks! It’s an example of where people come together to collaborate on ideas. Whether they work or not is not the point. It’s unfortunate that every one of these forums are filled with people just bashing one another. Personally, I just don’t get it. If you’ve got better ideas or just different ideas just post your own thread on whatever your idea is. Regardless of what “side” you’re on, posting insults on someone else’s topic is just immature and disrespectful. I don’t know which “side” you are on, and don’t really care, but wanted to express appreciation for your willingness to lend a helping hand ... and, free of charge. Thank you!!
     
    Frodo, Mako and TurboGenius like this.

Share This Page