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Baccarat Idea for ''UNBALANCED''!

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by eugene, Aug 23, 2019.

  1. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    I was reading an old thread from 'Junket King' over on the old Baccarat Forums relating to the UNBALANCED idea and hadn't really given it much thought before.

    For anyone asking what's UNBALANCED?

    Example; for a 4 set grouping.

    BBBB = unbal
    BBBP = unbal
    BBPB = unbal
    BBPP = bal
    BPBB = unbal
    BPBP = bal
    BPPB = bal
    BPPP = unbal

    PBBB = unbal
    PBBP = bal
    PBPB = bal
    PBPP = unbal
    PPBB = bal
    PPBP = unbal
    PPPB = unbal
    PPPP = unbal

    So this is a ratio of 5/3 and a 62.5% chance of not being balanced.

    It got me thinking how it all pans out on the betting front.

    You could play as follows.....

    ScreenHunter 41.png

    You are looking for either B or P to go two decisions in front to jag a win.
    In the picture above, it was continually cycling through either BP or PB and so never allowed either B or P to get in front by two decisions.

    The question then is how can someone decide when it's a good time to bet for the UNBALANCED or not.
    I have some old Roulette software that focus's on Couplets and this gave me the following idea....

    ScreenHunter 37.png

    In this picture, you can see how the RR and the BB couplets are both the equal longest missing couplets and therefore the UNBALANCED isn't working because again, you are only getting consecutive pairs of RB or BR and therefore neither R or B is getting ahead by two at any stage to enable a win.

    However, looking at the following picture...

    ScreenHunter 39.png

    Here you can see that the RB couplet is the longest absent couplet and this is allowing either the RR or BB couplet a better chance of a hit and therefore allowing the UNBALANCED to work.

    Maybe it's something to work with as part of a bet selection.
     
  2. Ravinderchawla

    Ravinderchawla Member

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    Hi, Groups of BBBB, & PPPP are considered as balanced & not imbalanced hence ratio should be 1:1 & not 5:3
     
  3. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    Ravinderchawla, BBBB is not balanced and neither is PPPP!

    If you look at the example above, you will see that any group with 2 B and 2 P is balanced and anything else is not balanced.

    So...

    BBPP (2 B and 2 P) = Balanced
    BPBP (2 B and 2 P) = Balanced

    BBBB (4 B and 0 P) = unbalanced *How can it be balanced if there are no P?*
    BPPP (1 B and 3 P) = unbalanced
     
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  4. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    Looking at this one again where the UNBALANCED isn't working....

    ScreenHunter 41.png

    and the couplets are as follows....

    RB
    RB
    RB
    RB
    BR
    RB

    So obviously when it continues in this state, the second result of the couplet is the opposite of the first result and so it's an easy pickup of 1 unit each time until this pattern breaks.

    The way I am thinking of using the UNBALANCED concept is in a kind of situational strategy where you are reading what's happening as you go along.
     
  5. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    Now looking at this one....

    ScreenHunter 42.png

    The EO and OE couplets are the missing ones ( for Baccarat, you just convert to BB, BP, PP and PB couplets)

    So the couplets are appearing as OO, OO, OO and EE.

    In which case, it would make sense to use the UNBALANCED logic on a rolling basis otherwise what are you going to do after the first OO when it's already UNBALANCED. To keep jagging those 1 unit wins, you need to keep resetting the counter on the appearing couplets.

    I am going to work on it because to my mind here, I am just scratching the surface.
     
  6. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    Never LOL

    Well not at least in the game of Baccarat, a truly awful bet selection, same goes for Birthday Paradox. I've sliced and diced those options a multitude of way, and they both still tank. What is worst Dr Tom hawks Equilibrium vs Non-Equilibrium.

    Equilibrium is 2 of 1 and 2 of the other. Non Equilibrium is any grouping of 4 that contains 3 of the same.

    Betting for the Non-Equilibrium in the game of Roulette is perfect and actually works if you apply it to the 3 EC's simultaneously, but delayed. I've posted how I did this a few times on many boards, and I did have a fair degree of success doing it. The casinos get wise to the constant cash-outs and start taking steps to stop anybody continually winning, because they don't like giving money away to savvy punters with a degree of consistency. It then becomes a battle not only between you and the game, but also the actions taken by the house. But of course things such as this don't happen in the real world according to a couple of knob-heads on this forum.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
  7. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    :) Well there is no real comeback to that, LOL.

    I used to play the couplets a lot in roulette and did OK. Adding the UNBALANCED idea is just another string to the bow.

    Here is a Bac shoe outlining the way I used to / would play it all in action.

    ScreenHunter 43.png
     

  8. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    This is why it should never be considered for the game of Baccarat.

    BBPP = bal
    BPBP = bal
    BPPB = bal
    PBBP = bal
    PBPB = bal
    PPBB = bal

    the most frequent occurrences in the game are?

    And this was hawked as a winning Baccarat system???
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  9. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    Well one thing is the average waiting time for either BB or PP = 6 and the average waiting time for either BP or PB is 4.
    So yes, when you see either that BB or PP going missing, it's a good time to see some balanced couplets ie..BP or PB.

    One thing though is that everything has a nemesis and when something is less likely to occur, it's my experience that often it will come in clusters to compensate. Those are the times you are scratching your head wondering when the hell the thing is going to break if you aren't betting it, lol.
     
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  10. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    This info related to Equilibrium vs Imbalanced for the game of Baccarat only.

    The ratio's improve the bigger the sample.


    Equilibrium vs Imbalanced - Expectation of Success

    6 hands = 44 vs 20 - 68.8% expectation
    10 hands = 772 vs 252 - 75.4% expectation
    12 hands = 3172 vs 924 - 77.4% expectation
    20 hands = 863,820 vs 184,756 - 82.4% expectation

    and everything in between.

    It is so bad a bet option (I've tried them all), I used only use grouping of 12 (77.4% expectation), even that was so bad, I use to wait until a 12 hand fail before taking the bet. Then I encountered a shoe which was well shuffled!!, That was in Equilibrium for each 12 hand groups for the entire shoe, it was like seriously WTF.

    There was a post over at WoV regarding the odds of a shoe being Equilibrium after say 50 hands (88.9% of that not happening) or 70 hands (whatever the figure is), however regular players see this often. The Mathies didn't really grasp what was being asked and spouted something about each hand being 50-50!!! Like banging ones head on brick wall.


    So why does this work for Roulette and not Baccarat?

    As I recently suggested to Shattered Dreams in another thread about playing as many terminals as possible, it all comes down to HEDGING
    Of course you get grouping of EC's in equilibrium, maybe even two of them, I've never seen three. So the wins off-set the losses and/or slow down the progression rate, because in the end the maths is on your side.

    Don't do this at the Bacc' tables.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019
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  11. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    OK mate! Thanks for the heads up!
     
  12. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    Anybody interested seeing how I played Equilibrium vs Imbalanced on the Roulette EC's? I can re-post over here, as it's on the RouletteLife board.

    It worked for me for about a month back in 2009, playing every day. Eventually I moved to one of those air-ball automated roulette terminals to get away from the dealers who were getting better and better at hitting the green marker that stood out like a beacon, saying "here here".

    Fuck, I should have stayed at the tables, my God those air-ball machines were bad. Eventually I changed casinos, which was all out warfare, then another casino, were the dealer demo'd spinning 007. I made some decent bread during that time, but it literally became to hard in the end. I suppose sitting at a terminal hooked up to a live table, so the runts can't see what you're doing, would be one way to approach things.
     
  13. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    Go for it, it would be interesting to read. My local Genting has two of those autowheel machines and now they are the only roulette wheels you can play sitting at the terminals. If you want to play a wheel with live dealer, then you have to do it at the actual table itself.
     
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  14. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    I played this a few years ago on live tables, I had a decent amount of success with it, then the dealers started getting funny because I practically won everyday playing it, over time things became harder and harder. And you were left in a position "are these fuckers spinning against me, or is it to be expected".

    Using groups of 12, the ratio is 3172/924 or 77.4%

    So basically for each EC, you bet that over a 12 spin sequence, the 12 spins won't finish six of one and 6 of the other.

    Disclaimer* when you factor in losing bets, prior to the 12 spin series being imbalanced, it resolves to a 50-50 state. Which is fine, because at the time I used a negative progression which only requires a 33% win rate (the Labby).

    I also staggered the recording of the results, so I wouldn't "in most cases" bet betting all 3 EC's simultaneously.

    So I took a score card (the Baccarat ones are ideal for this) and filled the squares like so;

    Draw a straight line (use a 2nd card) after every 3 column, down to the bottom of the card.

    <no dashes here, R/B results recorded here

    -
    -
    - <H/L results in this block
    -

    - -
    - -
    - - < O/E results in this block
    - -

    So let's say the following numbers are spun, 20, 1, 4, 17, 28, 32, 6, 0, 34

    My card would now look like this

    BB
    RB
    BR
    BB << we have six blacks, "our trigger", so we bet B for next 4 spins, stopping after any win

    You draw a neat straight line after the 3rd column of 4 B/R section.

    -HH
    -LH < these results are ignored, it is the next set, after these that you focus on.
    -LL
    -LH < the line you drew "should" fall exactly to the right hand side of the last set of results

    - -EE << and the same line should fall in the middle of those sets of results
    - -OE
    - -EE
    - -OE < the 1st 4 are ignored, the next 4 form part of the next set of 12 .

    As you start populating the outcomes (Zeros are ignored, or recorded with a dash that does not occupy a space), what happens is the B/R section kicks in first, i,e you bet B/R first, then H/L section kicks, usually around spin 16 in afterwards, followed finally by the O/E section.

    The reason for this, is I was running a single Labby string and sometimes it is hard to figure out what to bet when there is more than one bet called for. Difficult to use multiple strings, as "Balanced" 12 spins are not that rare. You can determine what what stage, you might consider hedging the zero, if a certain bet size is called for.


    Think of it as drawing a grid, 3 columns across and 4 rows deep. Enough space to enter 12 results. However you don't really want to be betting more than one EC at any one time, so you populate one row in on grid, and populate 2 rows in another grid. You only start monitoring the outcomes per grid.

    Here are a few of my old score-cards

    equil-0a.png

    From my notes, I made 21u from this. In the UK if the zero hits you only lose 50% of any EC bet.

    Personally I get real nervous playing Roulette than Baccarat, doesn't matter if it's for low stakes, too many bad memories perhaps, don't trust croupiers, even if they can't see what I'm doing. I treat it as chump change, petrol money, something to do while waiting for the tables to open, money to reduce my Baccarat goal target. Playing low stakes means no issue incrementing into my single Labby string and betting aggressively.




    This has a delay of two spins, slightly differnt from above.
    equil-0.png

    Low stakes as I am wary as fuck playing roulette, however sitting at a terminal linked to a live table on another floor seems to circumvent my paranoia, croupiers simply can't see me, and I prefer it that way. Pulled 12u from the above short session.

    As you can see I played 12 grids, 11 ended ImBalanced and the first Odd/Even grid was in Equilibrium.

    The * (in the first column) are simply there to stagger the results, as I prefer not to bet on 3 EC's at the same time. Circles represent the winning spins, lost bets not shown. Dashes - (three of them in the session) represent zero, only got hit by one of them and lost lost half of EC bet, but treated them as a full loss. I put a tick or cross against each grid, as an indicator of how each grid was panning out.

    MM a single Labby, incrementing into the string, until bets get to a certain digit value, then add to the right.

    Sometimes you can get 3 balanced R/B grids back to back, but these losses can be off-set by H/L or O/E wins, or you would get R/B and H/L balanced. Getting all 3 EC's Balanced at the same time, never happened.

    It is pure "random against random" approach.

    Another example.

    equil-0aa.png

    3 Balanced separate girds, B/R, H/L O/E all after each other, but still made a profit.

    Again notes from my old forum, biggest bet was 7u. Was increasing the ante as my confidence grew mainly due to that the dealers being unaware I'm playing it on another floor and out of sight.

    Here is a difficult session

    equil-0aa12.png

    H/L in Equilibrium, followed by O/E, then followed by B/R. From my notes, I think I dropped 50u from that section (Labby can't handle too many losses in a row).


    Protect yourself, be smart, think ahead..


    If at any time any 12 hand grid starts with a run of 6 of any of the EC's. (eg BBBBBB), then usually either ignored that grid, OR waited to see if there remained a betting opportunity with only 3 spins to go for that particular grid. The reason behind this little diversion, I didn't want to in the situation of losing 6 bet just to win 1 bet, especially when using a Labby. I.E avoiding running into BBBBBBRRRRRR.

    As I posted above, this suits Roulette more so than Baccarat, because you can off-set, you have three data streams, compared to one (I know there are ways around this at the Bacc' tables). Because the EC bets are off-setting each other, you can get away with using a single Labby, you couldn't use my multiple Sting Labby variation, because if you encounter an EC that is in Equilibrium for 36 spins (I've seen that), then one string would balloon out of control, while the others are winning low bets.

    Despite putting in a certain amount of effort trying to come up with a solution, I wasn't able to.

    I dislike playing a single Labby, which was all the more reason to ditch this. Any one coming up with a more suitable MM option and I may be tempted to hope down to my local cas' which no longer offer the game of Baccarat.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019
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  15. eugene

    eugene Well-Known Member

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    I see what you mean now by doing it with the three EC's. With the high percentage, (although no guarantees) it's likely that one of the EC's will be running really well. Thanks for posting it up.
     
  16. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    It would. They have an 80 terminal stadium Rapid Roulette at a casino near San Diego that is run off of a single wheel. You don't have to bet every bet too. That is a no cheat game. The dealers can't see your bets until you press cash out. Those occur between spins anyway.
     
  17. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Randomness will go into long lasting losing streaks, like for weeks at a time. If you play where other players are playing and you are not the biggest player then if they can target a player's bets to lose then they will go after the money bags. Any time you use deep bets, progressions, you tend to only have a 50 /50 chance of winning those biggest bets. If you try them during a difficult session you will get bad results more than 50 /50. Players tend to make things hard for themselves by not being aware of the sessions conditions. So in a way, the player is targeting themselves at times.
     
  18. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member Compulsive Liar

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    That is not totally true, they will also target the guy who is there every day, at the same time and wins.

    When you start seeing something like 3 zero's in the last 5 spins, the alarm bells should start ringing.

    Few years ago was in my local Genting's playing Bacc'. I happened to notice two non-regular punters betting 2 columns with £25 chips, they were doing really really well, moving between tables. So I asked them how are they deciding which columns to bet, they said,, they were simply taking any of them.

    Then they start losing to Zero's, once, twice, don't recall it they got hit 3 times, So I went up to one of them again and said, "the're spinning against you, open your eyes", he looked at me, like I was stupid. I told him to look at the Marquees on the tables. Each of the 5 tables was either showing zero, or zero in the second to last spin, literally green everywhere. Then he said, "why would they do that", I responded, "because they can, they are jealous c**ts and treat the chips as their own". The utter naivety that exists in casinos and on forums, is laughable, I shake my head in bemusement.
     
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  19. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    I've been saying for years that the zeros swarm all by themselves. If you want proof just look at all the people that search for hot numbers. Individual numbers swarm hot at times. I have a program that proves this. It shows the intervals between hits for all the numbers. It's common to see small groups with many hits of a number as an at the moment super hot streak.

    I could tell people that something is happening because someone controls it but I can't prove it. There is proof that Airball Roulette is manipulated though. It's listed as a slot machine in the patent office and it also includes patented technology to manipulate the outcomes as a controllable slot machine. They even talk about wheel speed manipulation.
     
  20. gizmotron

    gizmotron Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Here. The longer lines had more hits in 400 spins. Just look for a swarm of numbers in those lines first.

    Code:
    01) 036, 019, 005, 079, 006, 014, 033, 053, 022, 105, 020, 004, 
    02) 004, 036, 019, 006, 018, 033, 037, 030, 049, 026, 039, 008, 048, 020, 007, 048, 
    03) 024, 078, 049, 040, 016, 028, 020, 059, 096, 008, 
    04) 002, 060, 029, 014, 055, 015, 161, 016, 027, 009, 001, 008, 
    05) 003, 038, 034, 051, 067, 045, 032, 006, 027, 010, 004, 057, 
    06) 029, 022, 020, 078, 019, 014, 031, 043, 033, 069, 040, 018, 021, 002, 
    07) 022, 012, 012, 112, 006, 067, 033, 047, 001, 015, 014, 022, 
    08) 050, 024, 010, 034, 009, 035, 115, 029, 076, 031, 016, 
    09) 037, 069, 036, 078, 108, 002, 005, 016, 049, 040, 
    10) 018, 286, 101, 
    11) 006, 067, 006, 003, 007, 009, 019, 038, 079, 020, 100, 001, 068, 
    12) 021, 028, 015, 016, 054, 052, 015, 022, 039, 021, 037, 036, 014, 006, 008, 
    13) 109, 089, 007, 004, 158, 039, 002, 
    14) 007, 094, 020, 011, 016, 029, 045, 015, 005, 006, 071, 084, 001, 005, 005, 005, 
    15) 032, 012, 049, 153, 025, 
    16) 096, 041, 058, 066, 002, 084, 083, 
    17) 013, 026, 055, 003, 077, 011, 041, 033, 027, 013, 038, 038, 003, 055, 
    18) 043, 013, 002, 014, 014, 022, 012, 052, 012, 006, 088, 022, 023, 001, 040, 
    19) 038, 032, 030, 057, 055, 016, 012, 004, 037, 026, 027, 025, 058, 
    20) 035, 007, 119, 012, 068, 034, 013, 078, 002, 056, 
    21) 012, 011, 002, 028, 014, 025, 032, [b]004, 001, 002, 036, 002, 082, 080, 011, 002,[/b] 027, 
    22) 014, 049, 067, 022, 028, 020, 017, 001, 056, 044, 067, 036, 011, 
    23) 005, 023, 002, 124, 016, 077, 006, 086, 006, 032, 006, 008, 044, 
    24) 107, 005, 051, 052, 018, 040, 108, 044, 
    25) 027, 025, 026, 098, 003, 042, 004, 043, 014, 
    26) 016, 050, 077, 054, 011, 079, 007, 002, 047, 
    27) 009, 001, 016, 087, 006, 019, 092, 022, 005, 027, 014, 012, 016, 012, 023, 004, 046, 027, 
    28) 068, 027, 052, 041, 016, 002, 018, 036, 097, 045, 018, 006, 015, 
    29) 015, 084, 004, 037, 038, 011, 021, 080, 003, 023, 030, 004, 012, 025, 008, 020, 016, 
    30) 031, 016, 030, 037, 008, 034, 038, 022, 011, 016, 048, 049, 
    31) 020, 028, 087, 030, 006, 010, 006, 052, 011, 072, 027, 011, 047, 015, 
    32) 057, 019, 005, 007, 023, 035, 050, 015, 018, 020, 046, 053, 038, 004, 022, 022, 
    33) 001, 007, 003, 043, 033, 036, 010, 017, 052, 034, 033, 003, 057, 040, 024, 
    34) 061, 024, 025, 015, 011, 030, 099, 020, 007, 010, 019, 073, 005, 
    35) 141, 058, 004, 011, 005, 096, 010, 076, 035, 
    36) 017, 002, 014, 012, 024, 035, 011, 029, 122, 042, 001, 023, 001, 094, 
    -0) 090, 189, 001, 021, 
    
    Look at the number 21.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2019

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