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Baccarat Baccarat with Shuffle and Shoe System (FYI: Not here to argue)

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by R19, May 20, 2018.

  1. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    FYI: Not here to argue
    « on: Today at 10:19:20 AM »

    • reply.gif Reply
    This is inside information so take it for what it's worth.

    I haven't been here for a while because I don't like arguing with people, however I think the general public or gambler if you will needs to know this information.

    1) It's common knowledge at this point that casinos use the shuffle master to cheat people out of their money.
    2) They used to use the shuffle master to beat the advantage player who liked to use a system.
    3) They don't care if you use a system now because they have combined the shuffle master with an electronic shoe that pushes the cards out.
    4) All the casino cares about now is taking the most money for every hand that is delt. They accomplish this by using the shuffle master to position the cards and using the electronic shoe push the cards out to the side that is favorable for the casino to make the most amount of money on that particular hand.
    5) Example: First 2 cards in the electronic shoe is a 8 and 9, the next 2 cards are face cards. If the most money is bet on the Player side they will receive the 9 allowing that side to win. In other words the electronic shoe is capable of dealing the card underneath to allow the casino to have an unbeatable advantage.

    What the electronic shoe and the shuffle master combined the casino is able to decide the outcome of every single hand. This Technology cannot be beat and it takes cheating to a whole new level.

    Wewin2222
     

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  2. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Over at the smart guys forum there is a return discussion on a house rigging up baccarat. Apparently what Wewin2222 has presented so far is not too clear to some, but he is claiming that a house(s) are using the Shuffle Master to shuffle, then most likely a cut and burn card procedure THEN placement into a a larger baccarat shoe system that has card reading capability AND the system in place to switch cards.

    Any quality baccarat offering will not involve anything like this as what Wewin2222 might as well be video baccarat where the house can monitor all bets placed and then based on that switch one or more cards within the baccarat shoe system to affect the outcome. I would not bet $1 at a game like this because there are the clear majority of houses that offer a fair game is a house or houses are doing this.

    My houses have full card reading built into the baccarat shoe and they area all connected throughout the house, BUT there is no system inside the baccarat shoe that is capable of switching the order of cards. Furthermore, many houses are using the old school crystal clear baccarat shoe.

    Unlike what some of the ADVANTAGED JACKASSES continue to drone on about, unless you are negotiating a stacked game in advance like Phil Ivey did, quality houses are watching the fair game they use like a hawk. Fresh cards always, and close monitoring of everything. None of the advantaged play techniques he and his partner did are allowed ever.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  3. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    And Xander, just quit posting about baccarat because you claim that you have some inside super secret advantaged way to play baccarat when it is clear that you do not play at all. That is another reason why your smart guy forum rocks so much.

    If a house has a rigged setup like this, they would have to be use it selectively, BUT you should be able to notice the setup. It should be right there in front of you.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  4. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    'I would not bet $1 at a game like this because there are the clear majority of houses that offer a fair game is a house or houses are doing this.'

    should be:
    I would not bet $1 at a game like this because there are the clear majority of houses that offer a fair game versus playing at a house or houses that are doing this.

    'My houses have full card reading built into the baccarat shoe and they area all connected throughout the house, BUT there is no system inside the baccarat shoe that is capable of switching the order of cards. Furthermore, many houses are using the old school crystal clear baccarat shoe.'

    should be:
    My houses have full card reading built into the baccarat shoe and they are all connected throughout the house, BUT there is no system inside the baccarat shoe that is capable of switching the order of cards. Furthermore, many houses are using the old school crystal clear baccarat shoe.
     
  5. Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone

    Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone Well-Known Member Lineage to Founders

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    This is just plain stupid. Face it, your system sucks.
     

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  6. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Yes, Dr Sir Anyone Anyone. I wouldn't really want to be THAT GUY, but if there is a house or house that has a baccarat shoe system that is clearly capable of rigging as Wewin2222 is claiming, then they might as well be named.

    If anyone knows of a house where the full process from cards out of the box to first live baccarat hand is not being shown to players, please let us know. But I have not run across it. There are videos online showing baccarat/ card shoe systems that have rigging. This is not footage from real casinos as far as I recall. Nobody is going to play a rigged game.

    Baccarat is so deep, it certainly feels like things are full on against if they are going that way. Just because we pull an natural 8 or 9 doesn't lock a win, and everyone can not count how many key hands that were that close, right? I spent several minutes last night talking about what I saw with a dealer at an empty table and how I would play it and what I was expecting. It set up perfectly just I called it to happen, but got edged out by the other side. That's the game.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018
  7. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    If one does a search for 'baccarat shoe' on the internet, one can see many shoe systems that look like there is a lot of housing between the where the whole shoe is stored and the card exit. Now are any of these used in actual play at a house? Post it up, but at face value, I would not play with systems like those.

    I think Wewin2222 is speaking about systems like this which I have never heard of a real house using:

    Youtube: Baccarat Poker Cheating Shoe

    Willy Allison just makes some vague statement about it being used in real house play with zero reference.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2018

  8. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Youtube: Baccarat Poker Cheating Shoe
    Willy Allison just makes some vague statement about it being used in real house play with zero reference.

    I get it now. Although, Willy Allison is noting this incident, he specifically notes that it was maintenance staff for the house that was colluding with players to get an advantage by learning the first card for Player before bets were placed. Maintenance and a dealer(s) were working with players in a team. When a high first card for Player was identified, the players would load up on Player due to the theoretical first card advantage. And the whole time surveillance, other dealers floor management, and executive management wouldn't notice?
     
  9. cps10

    cps10 Well-Known Member

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    If it were known that this was happening would it not make sense to just play the weaker side (the side that has the least “action” on it?
     
    Trainer likes this.
  10. Mcvince

    Mcvince Active Member

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    Allow me to opine:

    The shuffle is the shuffle. I have heard plenty of times how cards can be manipulated inside the shuffle machine and to a point, it may be true. Here are a few things to think about:
    1. The games that I have played it seems that the shuffle master is used in the "No-touch" games while a fresh deck of pre-shuffled cards (PSC) are used in the touch games. For the most part, the "No-touch" (NT) games are the lower minimums while the higher minimums are for the touch games. Wouldn't it be reversed? Wouldn't they want the shuffle master in the higher unit games?
    2. At the Golden Nugget in AC, they have a NT game with a shuffle machine with a $25 min. The touch games have (PSC) that are thrown onto the table and wash shuffled for two minutes, then hand shuffled. Each casino does is different in AC. If there was even a scintilla of an advantage that the casinos can use legally wouldn't all use it?
    3. With the exception of the LA CA casinos and the Venetian who manufacture their shoes (Cheat), I don't know if it is true about the shuffle master. It may.
    4. When you take into account the cut and burn card, it is anyone's guess.
     
  11. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    '3. With the exception of the LA CA casinos and the Venetian who manufacture their shoes (Cheat), I don't know if it is true about the shuffle master. It may.'

    Not sure what you are stating 'LA CA casinos', but The Venetian is part of Las Vegas Sands (LVS). Really?
     
  12. Mcvince

    Mcvince Active Member

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    The last time I played at the Venetian in February, they opened the box burned one card and started dealing.
     
  13. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    You are stating that there is no shuffle process shown to players. They just open a box with a baccarat shoe full of cards, burn one card, and start dealing? I doubt that.
     
  14. Roubacc

    Roubacc Active Member

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    That is exactly what they do. With the exception of the cut card.
     

  15. Mcvince

    Mcvince Active Member

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    What would be the motive for me giving you false information? Aren't we all in this together? WTF
     
  16. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    LVS - a $62.551 Billion USD market cap global gaming company is not showing the shuffle process, opens a box, and burns one card does not mean they are cheating. I would prefer to play at houses that show the full process on the casino floor, and do.

    Players play with LVS because... because they have made a determination that although the shuffle process is not being done on the casino floor, the process is fair. Any baccarat player that has even a little seat time should be able to arrive at that view. In fact, I would bet size that the quality of their shuffle is better than some of the hand dealt baccarat shoes I have played.

    If you all what to hand walk a baccarat shoe from manufacturer, through an entire shuffle and cut process to the shoe, good luck. What is to say any 8 decks are not stacked or rigged. Did you personally escort them from the manufacturer to the table?

    Here is a post from DJTeddyBear at another popular forum:

    March 5th, 2015 at 10:04:11 AM
    It is common for casinos to use certified pre-shuffled shoes at the Baccarat tables.

    Part of the reason is, at the high limit tables, players are allowed and sometimes encouraged, to handle and mutilate cards on a losing hand. That being the case, it's easier to purchase cheap cards that are pre-shuffled.

    The problem comes when a certified pre-shuffled shoe is actually not randomly shuffled.

    That scenario has happened at Golden Nugget AC, and has been discussed to death in these two threads:

    HERE WE GO AGAIN: UNSHUFFLED BACCARAT AT GOLDEN NUGGET AC...

    CARDS NOT SHUFFLED
    (2 links on that forum you can look up)


    This case is probably why the casino the original poster mentioned does two test hands for each new shoe.

    If you want to comment about that case, post in one of those threads, not here.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2018
  17. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    Big Mac, you specifically stayed that houses are cheating when they are using what is referred to as certified pre- shuffled baccarat shoes. That is not same team. That is not together. It is falsely accusing major gaming organizations of cheating and spitting on what they do. If you don't understand the true dynamic of house advantage and how casinos make money, don't start spreading lies about the industry.

    How in your right mind some of you think baccarat players couldn't identify this straight away is very interesting.
     
  18. Roubacc

    Roubacc Active Member

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    To R19 and Big Mac,

    You said "How in your right mind some of you think baccarat players couldn't identify this straight away is very interesting"


    Because most baccarat players are naive. They are asses that follow the masses. Think about it. They come to the casino underfunded, they over bet their bankroll, they don't track their wins and losses, except for being ahead + or behind -, when they leave the casino. They don't have a clue of what they are doing and don't keep a scorecard, and that's why most lose.

    Regarding the shuffle machine. The reason given by the casinos when they introduced shuffle machines was to decrease the time it takes to shuffle cards. That is still their motto. In reality, it's about their profits and nothing else. The less time the casino wastes on shuffling, the more they keep you playing a negative expectation game, the more money they make. They took the auto shuffling a step further. The shuffle master doesn't shuffle at all. It arranges the cards in an "anti-trending" order. Most people are looking to bet on trends ("the trend is your friend" right? WRONG- That's BULLS***). The casino knows this, so when they order the cards from the card manufacturer, they request "anti-trending sequences". For the touch games the cards are discarded after use. But for the no touch games, the cards are reused. This is where the shuffle master comes in. After first use the dealer puts the cards in the shuffle master and they get "PREARRANGED" (not shuffled) for the next shoe.


    Don't be so naive about the casinos. They know exactly what they are doing. They run their businesses very well. They are keen and conniving bastards. They ARE cheaters, but that's OK with me, because I happen to know exactly how they cheat and the way I play overcomes their advantage. You probably don't believe me, but I don't care. That's a fact.
     
  19. R19

    R19 Active Member 👹 Troll 👹

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    hahaha, your're rich Roubacc. Tell you what smart guy. Go review my thread 'Gaming Gone Insane - Baccarat Edition' over at the other forum Bet Selection, because that is where you belong.

    Summary of What I Learn On-line About Baccarat From Forums:
    - You can not win in baccarat.
    - Baccarat is all luck.
    - Casinos cheat.
    - There are super secret math quants that have an inside edge on the game through advantaged play and in the long run strategy.

    Have I covered everything? GOOD. Because most of you jackasses do not play the game at all. You drone on about the above four points to the nth degree in infinity variations. I really wish you all would shut the F up ever, but you will never. You will pound your fantasy machinations down anyone's throat who is willing to listen and you waste the time and energy of experienced players.

    Which is why you jackasses can go review my other thread 'The First Rule About Baccarat Is...' DON'T TALK ABOUT BACCARAT which discusses why players don't discuss baccarat on-line.

    - Stop spitting on the gaming industry and accusing casinos of cheating because you spit on their organization, and every person on staff from custodial to executive management who goes through quite a lot to offer the game 24/7/365, many at insane hours of the day under very stringent working conditions.
    - Stop with your lies and bull because you are just poisoning the minds of other baccarat players that aren't able to see it.

    OMFG, IT IS THE SUPER SECRET SHUFFLE AND STACKED BACCARAT SHOE CONTROLLED ON HIGH FROM THE DARK WIZARD AND HIS BLACK RIDERS TO GET YOU. GET THE F OUT OF HERE - LOL. SO DUMB IT IS MIND BLOWING. AND OHHHHHHH S, PLAYERS DON'T USE SCORECARDS - ROFL. SO SUPER DUMB. AND OH THEY KEEP YOU PLAYING. YES IT MATTERS THAT THEY ARE FAST IN THEIR SHUFFLE PROCESS WHEN THERE ARE XX OTHER TABLES GOING. MOST DUMB EVER. AND ANTI-TRENDING? WHAT IS THE LONGEST BANK/ PLAYER DRAGON YOU HAVE PLAYED? I HAVE PLAYED MULTIPLE 2X LONG'S AS IN TWENTY SOMETHING, AND SEE VERY LONG BANK/ PLAYER DRAGONS EVERY SESSION ALL OVER THE FLOOR. I SEE TRENDS OF ALL SORTS THAT GO INTO HIGH TEENS ALL OF THE TIME.

    CAN YOU JACKASSES COMP THE MIND POWER, TIME, AND ENERGY WE LOSE REVIEWING AND RESPONDING TO YOUR BULL?
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2018
  20. Roubacc

    Roubacc Active Member

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    I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was talking to a legend in his own mind.
    Forgive me your highness.
    I’ll just go about my way.
    You belong with the asses that follow the masses.
     

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