Misc Details of Shackleford discussion & my final post

As promised I said that I would have more to share on my recent discussions with Mike Shackleford. I am moving this to it's own thread because I have some other things to say afterwards and this will be my final post here and on any site throughout the gaming/AP community.

So as I stated in recent days I again engaged in discussions with Mike, through private messages at his 'Diversity' site, which was the only way I had to communicate with him. A week earlier Mike had suggested that I take my complaints to Nikola Zugic, who posts as Zuga at WoV. Zuga is an administrator with Latest Casino Bonuses (LCB). I knew Mike was suggesting this because he had full confidence that Zuga would support him and his decisions. But I decided to see just how fair Zuga would be. So I informed Mike of my intent to contact Zuga. I received the following response from Mike:

“Hi J****,

Not to say that Zuga is higher or lower than me, but I would write to him. He is Josh's right hand man and Josh is more of a "big picture" guy and delegates stuff like this to his staff.

If you give me your word that you're going to make a serious appeal, I'll write to Zuga in advance to expect your request for a reconsideration, as we would call it at Social Security.

I'll say that I will respect his decision either way and admit that I could have handled your situation better. I will also add that you were one of our most-liked members, while also stating I think you can overreact when it comes to Norm. In all fairness, I will suggest he give Norm a chance to give his testimony as well.

My advice to you will be as conciliatory as you can and confirm your understanding and agreement with forum rules.

If I do get overruled, then I'm going to request that Zuga get all complaints from both you and Norm, as I will want nothing more to do with it.

Let me know if you plan to proceed and I'll give you Zuga's Email.

Mike”


Now this seems like a pretty fair response. Mike's tone was pleasant and conciliatory. He admits that his actions in the handling of this situation were not fair to me, which I have known, he has known, and most of the members at WoV that were interested have known...all along. It seemed like Mike was willing to let someone else (Zuga) make a fair call that he was not able to do because of his friendship with Qfit. An arbitrator that has ties to one of the parties involved obviously cannot be objective and that is why Judges routinely recuse themselves from cases they are unable to be objective about.


40 minutes later after Mike had read something that he didn't like, he did a complete reversal and I received the following PM at which time he disabled my account, ending all further discussions.


“It is too bad you closed with that paragraph below. I truly was going to remain neutral and respect Zuga's decision. However, I'm going to tell Zuga that I advise he deny your request.

You can track down Zuga on your own. He is active at LatestCasinoBonuses.com.

Finally, you go right ahead and say whatever you wish about me. I've already made plenty of vociferous enemies that I've banned and one more won't make a difference. My your self esteem be elevated every time you put down.

You had this in the bag and just threw it away.”


The hot-headed, quick tempered turn-around within minutes was astonishing. Very unstable. As I stated earlier the more I deal with Mike, the more I find him to be not only an odd, but a very insecure and dishonorable person. Not at all the person that I thought he was, nor that he portrays himself to be.

So as expected after I contacted Zuga, I received a message back from Zuga that after discussing the situation with Mike, Mike's previous decision stands. Absolutely no surprise there.

Now, several different sources have suggested that they believe Mike's actions siding with Qfit and banning me were a result of threatened legal action by Norm Wattenberger (Qfit). This would not surprise me one bit has this has been Norm's M. O. in many different instances. He is a bully and a crybaby. But whether or not Mike's actions are a result of that is almost irrelevant. You don't sell out your integrity because you are afraid of a bully (who incidentally has no case).

Shame on you Mike Shackleford and shame on you Zuga. You have shown your lack of integrity personally as well as a lack of integrity and honesty professionally. I can't imagine why anyone would have faith and trust in Latest Casino Bonuses.

So thus ends the details of the last few days. I am exhausted from fighting this battle for the last 3 months, which I have done because my reputation is THAT important to me. But I am now done. I give up. I know I wasn't treated fairly. Mike Shackleford knows he was not honest and did not treat me fairly. And it's pretty obvious from pages and pages of comments from many WoV members, through a number of different threads that most of the membership at WoV knows that I was treated unfairly. That is going to have to be good enough for me.

It is stunning to me that Shackleford, not once addressed the concerns of the membership at WoV. Such a lack of respect for the membership of his own site is really sad. That in itself, speaks volumes.

So I am moving forward. I don't need to share my experiences as a professional blackjack player. I can survive without that. I am approaching a million dollars in AP earnings for my career (13th year) which I should hit either later this year or early next. I don't need to share that, although I would have enjoyed doings so, just as I have enjoyed sharing all my blackjack experiences as well as participating in other discussions like sports, politics and just about anything Vegas. But Shackleford had the inexplicable need to take that away from me.

So in closing, to the members of WoV who bring up the topic every couple weeks, hoping for a response to this injustice....you or I are not going to get an honest response, so while I appreciate your efforts, please just let it go. Thanks and my best to you all.

To Mike: You REALLY surprised me. Your dishonesty and lack of integrity really surprised me. I thought you so much better a person than this.

To Wattenberger: There are no words. You are a real sleezebag, a bully and a crybaby. Just an awful person.

 

I agree about your assessment of QFIT. Over 50 posts in a short period of time, all crying how he is misunderstood.

As far as the manboy.....well he is just that....a manboy.....and this is how a manboy acts....childish, defensive, with a temper tantrum affliction.....a boy in a mans body.

 

not sure who you or this shackleford character are, so take this from someone's who's neutral, but it sounds to me like you used this place to air your dirty laundry, and now that you didn't get your way and didn't get invited back to the cool kids table, you're leaving here too and throwing us away like tissue paper like we're not good enough for you. why you do us like that?? seriously, why not just forget about all the drama in the other sites and continue posting in the bj section here instead of getting all dramatic and making a grand exit with your "final" post? you mentioned that your reputation is super important to you, but this is a dick move imo. i, for one, don't want to be the ugly girl that only gets attention when you're trying to make the hot girl jealous, and then get quickly forgotten as soon as you either get the hot girl or realize she's not interested. i ain't ugly!

 

It's a shame about KewlJ and a dis service to so many. No one loves the game more. No one gave of himself more....often to his detriment. That never stopped him from sharing. Popular. Great writing style.

The shame is that it didn't have to happen. But when you're dealing with unstable people who always put themselves and their egos above everything....well this is what you get.

 

this is what freddy, LP9 and me have been talking about for 40 plus pages. The only difference isover the last year or so we have played no favorites. We shimed the light on uneven punishment and poor customer service regarding people that we personally like and disliked. We were very consistent.
We were probably pooh poohed by munchkins......because the people being mistreated were people they didnt personally care for.
Little did they suspect that people that they DO care for would be mistreated.

So here they are....and all they can do is call us "jealous" or starting now, critique our humor.

Isnt it soooooooooooooooo coincidental that now that there is an influx of eyeballs from wov drawn here by KJ.......all of a sudden the names that have been used for over a year seems to be in poor taste........BWAAAAAAH

It seems at least one person wants to make a belated push to take a "stand" on what has been standard fare here for a long long time. The extra eyeballs no doubt lends one to grandstand on proper behavior. ...Behavior that seemed to be just fine for this individual just 2 days ago, or 2 months ago.But with the extra eyeballs from wov.........the soapbox becomes very attractive.

 

KJ: You post: "I am exhausted from fighting this battle for the last 3 months, which I have done because my reputation is THAT important to me."

Sorry, that dog won't hunt.

I have no fucking idea who you are.

Your real identity is unknown to me, and to all or certainly most of the people who have read your posts.

How then could your reputation IN THE REAL WORLD be affected by the shit on these boards?

It may be that a few folks, those you've taken into confidence, know your identity, but I bet they are few and far between.

KEWLJ does NOT exist!

For you to feel so strongly about a throw-away internet persona is kind of creepy.

I'd rather have a quick typing drunk threaten to cap my ass with a .44 than keep stumbling across more of your histrionic drama-infused bullshit.

Just sayin'.

 

I think I explained this within the past couple days right here on this site, but will do so again for your benefit, MrV.

You are not part of the AP community. By your own admission, you gamble for fun and "care not a whit for AP". That's fine. Nothing wrong with that. So the for the people like you that populate WoV, yes, it's a throw-away handle and persona, completely separate from your real identity. You could (and many do) use numerous handles/identities on the same site.

But for those of us in the AP community, it's a little different. Everyone knows each other. You run into one another at the casinos chasing AP plays. You run into each other at different sites. You run into each other at social gatherings from various sites. (the example I used earlier was the annual green chip party at BJ21). Sometimes you know someone by their true name. Sometimes you only know one another by face. And sometime you only know someone by their internet handle. This is why many AP's that participate on numerous sites use the same handle throughout.

But however you know someone, by name, face, or handle, the reputation is the important aspect. People form partnership and teams and networking circles based on that reputation. So a bad reputation and/or someone trashing your reputation, even if it is an internet handle can have a negative effect. It can even effect earnings potential.

In my case some in the community know my true name. Quite a few actually. More than I would like. Many more know me as KewlJ or KJ. But what is important is the reputation. So yes, I will say it again....my reputation is important to me.

 

KJ, it seems like Mike's biggest issue is with sharing of private communication, which is why I think you were banned at WOV....and certainly talking poorly about someone is not going to help your case. I don't think Mike handled the case the best way possible and I don't think you handled it properly either (starting around shortly before your ban at WOV)....although I can't blame you or say I wouldn't have done the same thing.

MrV, your online reputation does not need to be connected to something in real life. People network with each other, lots of times have never met each other. I network with several APs whom I've never met and a pretty good chance I won't meet them. But they help me and I help them. If I figure out one of those people are up to no good, I'm probably not going to talk to them anymore or be as helpful to them in the future. THAT hurts someone. I've met several members on WOV and a few from BJTF who had good reputations. If they had a poor reputation, I either probably would not have met them or would not have been as helpful/open with them. That hurts both the other person and me (assuming it's a good person, but unfairly given a bad reputation). Even if you don't meet with someone in real life, it still hurts you having a poor reputation. But even though I don't think KJ meets many people in real life from the forums.....who's to say in 5 or 10 years from now he wouldn't have thought, "Ya know what, maybe I should meet with some people and start teaming up with others."

mightymike, Norm (QFIT) Wattenberger owns a blackjack forum and QFIT / Casino Verite products....Mike Shackleford is the Wizard -- wizardofodds / wizardofvegas forum.

 

Great post. KewlJ is well known in blackjack circles. He is very knowledgeable and is willing to share his experiences with players of all levels. There aren't many who would take the time with newbies but he does. He also shares his ups and downs, never sugar coating it like so many who seem to win every time they play. He would be an asset to this board.

So what's the problem? The freaking guy is HIGH MAINTENANCE. Oh my God!

 

The more I read and learn about the inner workings of AP’ing, the more I’m starting to believe the vast majority have serious mental disorders.

If your career and livelihood could have any affect what so ever based on the conversations taking place on any anonymous, ridiculous, petty, phony, compulsive, lying, James Bond 007 living the dream wanna be web sites; your problems are worst then I even imagined.

Today’s technology has several ways to communicate privately if you alleged AP’s really wanted or needed to. One could only suspect that privacy of this bullshit obviously is not important nor taken serious. Please tell me you’re kidding flapping your gums on web sites sharing everything being said around the world for everyone and anyone who even wants can read. Then when someone says something negative about you, your concerned your living will be hindered.

Really guys, most of you have to be young. I’m sure many of you have time and a chance to take life more seriously.It's getting harder and harder to even consider taking you more serious.

 

Blackhole, I'm glad you're here. You do know that your chances of being reinstated over there are slim?

I think we have to separate the different AP factions. They claim that blackjack can be beaten.

I recently read an article by Elliot "you better call me doctor" Jacobson that was rather enlightening. He says that the very best player playing the very best game, betting a minimum of $100 could net $20 an hour. He would have to bet several times that when the shoe got hot...up to $1000 or $1500. Very risky. He would also have to avoid being caught. All for an Andrew Jackson...or is it a Harriet Tubman now? Will that pay anyone's bills?

Let's look at slots, an area rife with internet bragging. You can see it on WOV complete with photos. Photos from the internet, photos taken by the "pros" of other people's wins as they aimlessly wander the casinos like homeless bums looking for abandoned TITOs.

I'm not saying that people haven't been successful at slots but they are few and far between. They are not on forums 24/7 bragging. They are not that pathological, delusional liar Wizardofnothing nor are they team Axel. You'd think the smart ones over there would be on to them. Maybe they are.

Little Axel...that water you are selling on the pedestrian overpass is still a little too warm. Give team member Da Jerk that dollar tip I gave you and send him for ice.

 

Fair 'nuf, KJ, I assumed few knew your real identity.

 

then why quit here? you haven't explained that.

 

Yes, you seem to be a good guy who knows a lot about AP, and would be an asset to this board.

Purgatory ain't so bad.

 

That you took the Wizard seriously for so long tells me everything I need to know. Forget the crazy unsubstantiated internet claims made by you and most others.

 

KJ, I am sort of siding with the V post.
I have no AP type knowledge. But I am thinking the the APS you hang out with know your stance or methods, and they are aware of QFITs methods. They are aware of the differences, and they form an opinion based on the math or based on their experience, or whatever they use to form an opinion.
So you get into it with QFIT on wov....and get cut off at the knees. My guess is the APs you hang with have read a full exchange with you and QFIT on other sites. I doubt your treatment by the manboy wiz changed anyones opinion of you. If anything it helped change their opinion of the wiz.
The wiz actually did more damage to his rep than to yours.
Freddy,LP9 and myself have pointed out examples of the manboy wiz being a childish, petty, socially backward egomaniac long before youcame here and told your story. You did not present breaking news....just verification of what already has been known....which is appreciated.

But reputation builds over time. The manboy wiz has no real power. He claims his suspension list is there to shame people. I posted on that site that he or the other mods do hot have the power to make me feel shame. Its a friggin message board. In the grand scheme of things its not that big a deal where I would feel "shame". I have total control over whether I feel shame......they have zero power.

It seems the same for you. You have a rep. You have friends "in the know" ....you have been around a while.....they have seen full exchanges between your and Qfit. They can read the posts of people at wov bemoan your loss. It seems your rep is intact.
I dont think your rep is a house of cards that can be negatively effected so easily.

 

I also think KJ.....that the biggest retribution would be to post your valued info and stories here or somewhere other than wov. ..and make management there feel the consequences.
Right now there are no consequences to the actions of management.......they win...if they get rid of you...and you go quiet.

Even if its once a week....post just like a blog......dont even look for exchanges with people........just a comment, a story, ...something......

give your fans from wov that have stuck up for you, a reason to come here and read your commentary.

the greatthing about the admins here..is that if someone goes off topic...and starts to bash you without adding to the conversation...they wont delete it...but they would break it off to its own thread.....like......"kewlJ vs xxxxx".

So you can have a clean thread to discuss your thoughts

I personally wont find the topics to my interest....but that doesnt mean there arent alot of others who would benefit.

 

We seem to be going off into a lot of side discussions here. I am not saying that Wizard damaged my reputation. I agree that he damaged his, much more than mine. He has shown himself to be dishonest and lacking integrity. Really the only fault I have with Mike as far as damaging reputations is to allow someone to attack me, while not permitting me to respond which is what he allowed his friend Norm (Qfit) to do and to allow attacks after the member is gone from the site and can't respond. Attacking or allowing attacks of someone who is not allowed or unable to respond is low thing. It just is not very honorable.

The person who has damaged my reputation is Qfit. He set out to do that, trolled me to 4 different sites that he didn't regularly post on, for the sole purpose of attacking me and trying to influence sit owners/administrators to ban me or limit my opinions. That is the guy that set out to damage my reputation and has succeeded to some degree, although I guess Mike did aid him by being the only site owner/administrator to be influenced by Qfit and side against a contributing member in good standing. It has cost me friends and people that I network with.

As, far as my continuing to post here, I appreciate the warm welcome by members and administrator, but I never intended to post here for long. I made that clear in my very first post last week. No offense to administrators or members but the blackjack section here, isn't very active, doesn't have much traffic/action and no offense to anyone but some of the few topics posted there aren't a very serious discussion, in my opinion. Sorry if that sounds snobby.

I don't post blackjack topics just to hear myself talk (so to speak). I post with the intent to help newer players just as others did for me. There is usually a cost to any AP posting about his AP experiences, so posting just isn't for boredom or just to talk, as I do with some other non-blackjack, non-AP topics, where I post more for entertainment.

My brief participation here was just because I recently read through 30 some pages of the WoV is dying thread (and it most definitely is) and there was quite a bit posted about my particular situation, so I thought some of you might enjoy hearing some of the behind the scenes discussions and situations that expose Mike to be a very less than honorable person. Again, I think I stated my intent and brevity here in my very first post, so I don't feel like I misled anyone, or 'used' this site. ....well maybe I used this site to draw attention to and help expose what a dishonest and dishonorable person Mike is. The extra attention this site got during my brief time here, with a few extra eyes from WoV, may have opened a few eyes over there and I score that as a good thing.

 

Well good luck.....but if you have a "getting even" bone in your body.....a 5 minute post here every week would cause angst to the people who deserve it. Even if you dontget an exchange, back and forth.....

 

then why not be the change you want to see? if everyone thought that way, no section would ever get off the ground. have you considered the possibility that if you started posting interesting threads, then the activity would follow? with heavyweight blackjack members here such as nathanial tilton, michael dalton, marcus dalton, and (according to the admins) "Blackjack Hall of Famers, World Series of Blackjack Champions, Leaders of the original MIT Blackjack Team", can you imagine the incredible discussions that would go down? but of course, they all seem to be waiting for the "others" to get the party started. don't you like starting parties? i bet your parties are fun! why don't you give it a shot? what have you got to lose?