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Poker Discussion - 3 or 4 Biggest Obstacles (Cash Games)

Discussion in 'Poker Forum' started by TEACH (AlSpath), Feb 6, 2015.

  1. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Poker Instructor
    Location:
    Maryland USA
    Let's have a discussion (if we can and you assist me), on what seems to be the biggest obstacle when starting out in cash games (online or live).

    I'd like to hear your opinions and what you recommend to combat them if you would. I'll gladly start, but I'm not going to list them all, I would like you to add to mine and at the end, let's see a consensus arises.

    * Pre-flop

    Starting Hands - I see so many players playing way to many hands and getting themselves into trouble once the flop comes and they catch a piece or think they have too much more invested (all sorts of bogus rationale).

    Starting out I'd recommend you throw away a ton of hands (some you might be able to play as you gain more experience and skills later on), and stick to solid holdings, especially big pairs, big cards, pairs, and suited connectors. NOTE: don't overpay to see flops holding medium and small pairs, or mid to lower suited connectors either.

    When you do play, play aggressively, hardly ever limping and apply pressure to your opponents.

    Tip: When you RAISE you gain many benefits that are not present when you CALL:

    1. You may get more money into the pot.
    2. You may thin the field.
    3. You define your holding as solid (at least they assume that to be true)
    4. You define your opponents hand (by them calling or re-raising)
    5. You may win with a continuation bet (c-bet)
    6. You may elect to take a free card (everyone checks to you, or thinks you are trapping when you check in EP - don't try this move starting out)
    7. You may win by barreling again on the turn (even when you have air - nothing)
    8. You may be able to make the texture of the board work in your favor because of the strength shown.
    9. You may be able to win at showdown by catching a card on the river, or when your opponent gives up.

    AK.jpg


    Just remember one simple principle: when betting and out of position (early position - EP), you should bet a bit more than when you have position. The reason is because there are so many players yet to act, and a smaller bet could induce an early call, and setup pot odds for others to follow and jump in; and when you have big cards, or a big pair, you might want to limit the field so you can isolate and dominate!

    Good luck and hope to hear from you all. Your input or weigh in on mine.
     
    TripleQs, Fritz, PHC and 1 other person like this.
  2. signalmarion

    signalmarion New Member Lineage to Founders

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    My first suggestion (bullet):
    a. Have a solid bankroll for the games you play. Let me explain: when you are learning to play a variant of poker, have enough funds to buy-in more than once. Having the best hand versus a less than proficient player will log-term be profitable. Each time you have that hand situation, your opponent will make some percentage of winning connections. When you are not properly funded and lose, you will be out of action (the worst situation when the games are "Good").
    b. When you live in an area with limited game selection, be ready to leave any game when you determine 1. you are the fish; 2. your image is damaged and everyone puts a target on your action; 3. the game conditions change and it becomes unprofitable (IE: the bad players &/or the fish bust or leave the game.)
     
    Leon Macfayden likes this.
  3. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Poker Instructor
    Location:
    Maryland USA
    * Post Flop

    Getting tied to hand because players that have already committed chips, then catch a piece of the flop and want to continue for all the wrong reasons:

    Forgetting existing short pot odds and looking at "implied odds," and basing their decision to continue on what will happen should they actually catch.

    Not thinking about the pre-flop bet (usually a raise), from the person in seat x (their position, usually EP), and the type hands (grouping of 3 or 4 hands - range, they might be holding), and how the "texture" of the flop improved or missed their hands.

    Looking at money (behind the opponents cards), what they have left. So many times I see players "set-mining" with a mid-pair, against a raiser that has a short stack. Tip: If you are making this type stab (with 7.5-1 odds), make sure your opponent has 10-12 times the amount of the bet, left in their stack. This will help compensate for all the times you don't hit. Remember, even when you do hit, it does not mean you will get their entire stack, another scare card could come off, or they "wiff" completely and don't continue. Then there are the times they will make a bigger hand than you (a full-house, flush or straight), so that has to be taken into consideration.

    Can members add some more tips, Pre-Flop and Post-Flop to help others, it would be appreciated.

    I would also love to see someone comment of POSITION and it's relationship to the real estate saying: "Location, Location, Location!"

    position-diagram.jpg Mike Caro was heard to say (Mike, correct me if I am wrong): Chips flow clockwise around the poker table. It's primarily because winners usually have POSITION on their opponents!
     
    Leon Macfayden and Fritz like this.
  4. Fritz

    Fritz New Member Lineage to Founders

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    Love this post. I have a simple 1. Surely applies here...

    When starting to play cash from a tourney background, remember:

    "Your opponents in cash DO NOT, play the same cards as in tournament play."..
     
  5. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

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    Fritz, can you tell us why that is please?
     
    iplayhorseofcourse likes this.
  6. Fritz

    Fritz New Member Lineage to Founders

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    It seems that cash players like to play hands which have the opportunity to get the $ you have back if they flop hard & fold if they do not.

    ie. hands like 42, 53, 42, 45suited that if you flop your ace or a set of aces, they flop the wheel or R one card from it. Cash players have the tendency to play a lot "differently" post flop & are able to control pot sizes easier with different flop/turn plays. They can then control betting by betting out or re-raisinging from late & checking turn behind or whatever. Tourney players will let opponent put the $ in and think they R getting max value cause that's how tourney is played. Let your opponent bet/bluff @ it to get value. But, if you do the same at cash. You'll find opponent flipping over cards @ river and dragging pots that you just let them hit.

    I must admit I'm guilty of this. From l8 position, I'll call/re-raise with a MUCH wider range of hands which I'd NEVER even play in tournament play. In cash I know, I can always put my hand in my pocket, reload & start playing again. Cash gives you the ability to be more creative with your plays. In tourney, you're crap out of luck once you go broke..

    My favourite hand is 97 & 8,6 in cash games & obviously aces in tourney.
     
  7. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

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    Occupation:
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    Maryland USA
    When starting to play cash from a tourney background, remember:

    "Your opponents in cash DO NOT, play the same cards as in tournament play!"

    What about in cash games the blinds do not increase (so no forced action), while the tournaments proceed along with increasing blinds and introducing ante's, don't they factor in how your opponents may decide to play or not to play a particular holding, and how much it costs them to compete in the hand?

    Secondly, what about the fact in cash you can reload, however in a tournament (after a rebuy period ends), you can't? How do you think that affects your play?
     
    Fritz likes this.

  8. Fritz

    Fritz New Member Lineage to Founders

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    Absolutely right, it comes down to running out of chips and being able to reload or not.

    In tourney, your chips are worth much more than in cash. In tournament play you need to build your stack in relation to the blinds to get to the end with every chip in the room. You really don't have much room for error or risk. Harrington has great books explaining what holdings to play in tourney with x blinds using M theory which I think is: M= stack/big blind+small blind + antes. If you play weaker holdings on a regular basis in tournaments your chips will diminish while the blinds/antes increase & there will be no way for you to recuperate chips and use your skill to win. Mediocre holdings are almost always further behind in tourneys.

    In the end, unless you get lucky with weak holdings in tourney, you'll be forced to race & let the cards dictate your wins/losses. Poker is a skill game. I personally like winning the +80% of pots that don't get to showdown. Once you run out/low of chips in tourney while blinds go up, there is no more chance of winning without showdown & again, you usually need stronger holdings to win..

    I hate racing, no matter the odds.
     
  9. Thomas Gallagher

    Thomas Gallagher Member Lineage to Founders

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    The Pre-Flop, Post Flop & Starting hands vs Position were my next posts. These are weakest area & common problems for novice players. May not be able to post my info for few days.
     
    Fritz likes this.
  10. TripleQs

    TripleQs New Member Founding Member

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    I remember one piece of advice regarding fish. "If you can't figure out who the fish is at the table then you are the fish".
     
    Fritz likes this.

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