Craps Facebook Comments Draw "Craps" Comments

Allen Kessler

"A craps dealer playing at my table at hpt Blackhawk poker main event was giving the table advice on how to play craps.

He was touting placing numbers and pressing at certain intervals.

I respond "placing numbers is a horrible bet in craps. Each number has a built in vig. "
He snaps back..

"You don't know what you're talking about. A $15 place bet on the 5 pays $21
A $5 come bet with $10 odds only pays $20."

I retort....

Yes but they are different bets. One has a much higher juice than the other.

He honestly thought he was right about this and wouldn't let it go. This went on for about 15 minutes. Finally the dealer said that's enough. No more craps discussion!

It amazes me how someone can deal craps for a living every day and not even understand the basic math involved."

 

the best bet on the table is a winning bet, no matter the juice

 

In other words, sometimes the dealer's strategy is correct and sometimes your strategy is correct

For the most part, Come betting is for beginners and most Come bettors evolve into Place bettors .... There is a basic reason why and it has nothing to do with the juice

 

And that basic reason is....?

 

The more you play, the more the better bets will win out; or rather, lose less or far less depending on which bets are being compared. You might not see this in a session or hundred but if you play years and years the bottom line is plain as can be. Indeed, if you were to take all the players playing this month around the world and check out which ones lost least and which ones lost most as a group, I'd guess the group of Pass/Come bettors with Odds would win the "least loss" of the day.

If the math rules for the casino, then the math rules for the players too.

 

Experienced craps players realize after watching a few good rolls that Place and press bettors win more than Come bettors on the same table

one example is a few weeks ago at Bellagio - several Place bettors won over 50,000.00 each on one hour and 20 minute roll by a shake and bake chicken feeder .... One Place bettor won 92,000.00 whereas the 3 Come bettors all colored up less than 25,000.00 each

 

A given sequence of rolls may favor place bets over come bets, another the opposite. Drawing a conclusion like that from "a few good rolls" is a slippery slope, logically. Maybe the come bettors weren't increasing their bets, or their odds. Not convincing.

 

Frank is old age setting in, how could you make a statement like that? The math of the game says that the casinos are going to win, so how can it work for the players?

 

I didn't say anything wrong. Using my idea of two groups all over the world, over time, here is what I concluded:

"I'd guess the group of Pass/Come bettors with Odds would win the 'least loss' of the day.

"If the math rules for the casino, then the math rules for the players too."

Nothing nutty about that. It is the same thing you are saying. (Of course, you are a little nutty even so. )

 

I have mixed emotions of the Come vs PB. I will say I have won more $$$ form a Single buying making CB bc it forced me to use the 20% up as you win rule. I think what PB forget is the eventual 7out where I have a 6-7th tier progression that is winning to a 7out where all the PB are falling to a 7 out.

Didn't Rappin Captain prove that Cb vs PB rules using 20% exponential Betting using his progressions up 5,6,8,11,15 etc...?

 

Golllly, it seems like some of these posts have been read on other forums. Or perhaps it is simply just "deja vu".

 

I have never found a casino that would let you take your come bets down.

 

You can only take your odds down --- otherwise in short order you would own the casino if you could take your Come bets down.

 

For sure... Was playing in Off strip last night and had a guy throwing numbers on prior roll so i decided, to go auto pilot and CB him... Got to about 10 rolls, then he made his point. I remember from prior roll he sets for 7 on Co...So i looked had 2 CB. 25/75 on the ten and 25/25 on 8... did not want to lose the $50 ... so i seen a lost 5 so i laid it quickly for $75, then hopped red for $10/$1/$1... knowing he would hit it based off past performance... boom CO7, Told dealer keep me up, it cost me $10 on hop, won $50 on Lay... I add $25 go to 150 on No 5... add $5 to red... boom another 7,,, make 100 on lay 5... now actually profit on the red of $15..add $5, take lay to $225..boom another 7...made $150 on no 5... less big of course... make some red $20 less my $50 on 10/8 CB i kept up.... this is where i made my mistake ...(more later)... add $5 to red and reduce 5 to $75....next roll Co 7.... threw 4 CO7... made $50 on CO7... made red $$$ ..lost $50 on CB as i kept them up again...

What i should of done, and I Did on next time he rolled... was convert those CB early on back to PB or used my modified CB strategy..(below)...but on this roll once he threw his first CO7, i could of accepted the $10 loss since i had a $10 red... and as soon as he got point established, came back with Put bets. Or... just used my modified CB where i do PB and treat like CB and take down and put back up using progression on next number...

Example of this: Playing single odds...

Shooter throws a 9...instead of a 10cb w/ 10 odds that would pay 10/15... just make a $20 PB after the point. once 9 hits, tell dealer down on 9. If next CB # was a 10, i would have gone up 1 level to a $15 w/ 15 odds...so $30 risk...(which pays 15/30 for 45) in modified..I wait for that # which is a 10 to travel...give dealer $30 and say PB/buy the 10.. once 10 hits it pays $60 less Vig...and i tell dealer, down on 10... so now next CB would of been next level of 3rd tier of $25 right? with single odds... say its the 5.... so 25/30 (pays 25/45=70)would be a CB so $55 risk, ...in modified, i let # roll then tell dealer, give me a $55 PB on 9. this pays $77. Same risk... pays a bit more, but don't get paid on naturals in come, so get back a little extra in pb odds that are higher than flat bet in come that are traveling....

this theory is perfect, if this is all you are doing... but with the way i track a table, tracking 6 levels of Trend Setter Craps and playing 3 of them, adding this and trying to be perfect without forgetting something or making a mistake, could be costly. But if you are a do side player, I would recommend this way and increase up as you win, 3 levels, then reduce after your 3rd level bet wins back to first level, then go all the way up from here.... this is basically the Leonard Benson Playing Craps as a Profession CB progression used in my Modified CB/PB format, using the modified CB feature of NO CB but following CB principles... Hopefully with the explanation, i clarified any questions you might of had... its pretty simple...

This can be used on $5 tables as well just start at $5 and your starting 3 tiers are $5/10/15 with single odds... a 10 starting goes $10/15/25.... a $25 starter goes $25/35/50... a $50 starter goes, $50/75/100. After 3rd win, reduce then next bet ONLY, then from there any 3rd level bet that wins does NOT get reduced... Work all bets on CO roll up to the 3rd Level, Once any bet on felt at a 3rd level or higher, NO BETS on Felt are working....By using this strategy, you won't be affected by CO 7's and are set up to attack a strong hand....

GL, TSC