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Lounge How can a board that drives away posters make it?

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by SCAN, Mar 16, 2015.

  1. SCAN

    SCAN New Member Founding Member

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    • i am really disappointed in this board ....... any free and open exchange of ideas that does not fit the convential wisdom is attacked by a few serial posters driving the poster away.

    David Medansky expressed his craps beliefs he was attacked and said he does not need to put up with this and he left.
    I do not know Mr Medansky but I looked him up he has written several books. What harm would it have done to have him contribute here?

    Just my opinion.
     
  2. SCAN

    SCAN New Member Founding Member

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    Case in point I just read comments by best selling gaming author Frank Scoblete in The BJ forum. It was followed up by someone writing some really insulting stuff about him.

    Either this board is going to be monitored and policed or it will lose any chance of respectability
     
  3. Admin Team

    Admin Team Administrators Admins

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    What solution do you propose?
     
  4. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    I propose that the famous gaming author be banned from all forum's as he is only there to shill his latest piece of feces. It is quite possible that Medansky also wrote something that someone is calling him out for. Craps critics are pretty tough!
     
    zengrifter likes this.
  5. superrick

    superrick Active Member Founding Member

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    Why should he contribute if he had enough of any board. Would you put yourself out there like Frank Scoblete does, where we question everything he writes, without the name calling?

    I know of one other incident where a star poster and a instructor said some things about one of David's books without even reading it. That post was taking down by the owner of that board, after he was contacted by Mr. Medansky. Now I'm not going to tell everybody who's board that post was made on, or who the poster was. That is up to Mr. Medansky if he feels the need to do so!
    Come on DeMango you know better then that, anybody that writes a book comes under the scrutiny of all the posters on anybody board, but if you haven't read what any author wrote, why are you even posting on it?

    I've read his stuff, and maybe you should too, it might help you out when your on the tables! I know of some DI's that have learned a lot from him!

    ..
     
  6. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Rick; I think I do have his book, unread. If you reread my above comment I have nothing pro or con, just that someone else has.
     
  7. Gargoil

    Gargoil New Member Lineage to Founders

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    I think any forum / site should allow one's freedom to express his / her personal opinion without direct attacks towards individuals. There are several individuals with out of the box style thinking that express new strategies or ways to approach a casino game or gaming in general but go under direct attacks from others who believe their method of approaching the game is better. They lack negotiating skills and sound abrasive to others even if they don't intend to do so.
    There are others who can not help themselves but stir and cause trouble every chance they get. The can't help themselves because that's who they are and how they operate.
    Another thing that you will soon see is people going off topic and "Hijacking" threads. For example a thread would start with questions about a certain betting strategy, someone chimes in and mentions a certain author, someone else will get on topic and starts blasting the author and the thread will turn into an online bully session of the author and waaaaaay off topic.

    My opinion / suggestion is to monitor the forum closely and you will soon figure out who is adding value and who is causing trouble and then you can deal with those individuals. Unfortunately you may lose some good members while you sort this out.
     
    Harley likes this.

  8. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

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    If you open a forum, you must expect differing views. Having said that, those comments in opposition should not step over the line of being defamatory, rudely insulting, or flat out made up chit!

    Most forums contact a respected member of a particular forum and ask them to be a fair moderator. That does not mean they take sides, they just ensure that the discussions stay on subject and are not attacks or teenage behavior.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion and facts, but no one is entitled to their own unsubstantiated facts just to make them look superior and someone else look foolish.

    I think it's fine to call someone out on a statement and then support your reasons for opposition, however, expect a reply to those who differ from you.
     
    Harley and Gargoil like this.
  9. zengrifter

    zengrifter Member Lineage to Founders

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    I was one of the culprits. In the offending thread I referred disparagingly to John Patrick, whom Medansky holds in high regard. I later found out that Patrick is a "founding member" (whatever that means) here and I requested Admin to remove my single remark about Patrick (I called him a quack).

    Regarding Medansky himself, I did not call him names, I only questioned the efficacy of his system(s).
    He couldn't handle that, nor did he offer any "proof," presumably because none exists.

    GamblingForums.com has a lot of members who are gambling and statistical illiterates, and it appears to me that a number of what I call crackpots, including crackpot authors have appeared here. Certain things about casino gambling, the efficacy of gambling systems that rely on progressive betting schemes, stop-loss and stop-win points, limited sampling assessments, and the like, have no validity in math and science - they do NOT affect the underlying house advantage. This is not an opinion any more than 2+2=4 is an opinion.

    As far as I am concerned, it's better that the occasional crackpot author blows than for such member to post "voodoo" systems that offer no proveable advantage in a given game with ongoing impunity and smug mock authority. That said, I have no problem with all the inane systems being posted, sometimes by authors whose only credibility, like Medansky and Patrick, is the number of books they have published. But they should be not thin-skinned or put out when someone like myself questions the effectiveness of their systems.

    Examples of Medansky book titles and descriptions (bold added for emphasis)-

    Craps: A Winning Strategy: A Guide to Winning Casino Craps Consistently
    Craps: A Winning Strategy teaches the reader how to increase the probability of winning to 83% on each roll of the dice. Author is an attorney who earns more playing craps than practicing law. Strategy has been tested in Las Vegas-- It Works!

    Wholly Craps! Insider Secrets to Consistently Win at Craps
    Several betting methods that allow you to consistently win at the craps table. Industry experts are calling 'Wholly Craps!' the most comprehensive manual to play and win at craps. Students are calling it, "far more rewarding than our wildest dreams."
     
  10. zengrifter

    zengrifter Member Lineage to Founders

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    Well that may be overly harsh ... but on the other hand, if the board's "owners" thought that everybody could just play totally nice and respect each other's "opinions" then it would appear that the owners are not serious bona fide advantage gamblers, and lacking some underlying principle of science-based methodology, and a TOS that underscores such philosophical discernment, GamblingForums.com is destined to be just another clown car.*
    *(that's just my OPINION)
     
  11. TwoCatSam

    TwoCatSam Member Founding Member

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    First, I am not speaking about any person, book, theory or system in particular. Just voicing an opinion and that as one who plays roulette almost exclusively, with a little back-a-rat thrown in.

    I've been on forums for about ten years. I have seen some ridiculous stuff posted. I have posted and said some ridiculous things at times. Things I'd love to take back. I read things that are so ridiculous in their claims, I have to shake my head. Some things defy logic. Some defy math. Others defy just plain common sense. Hit-and-run betting--the idea that you will always be ahead at the beginning of your session--comes to mind.

    On the other hand, I enjoy reading the zany ideas. I agree, they should not be touted and sold as a way to make more money than a lawyer. We all know that no one sells the goose that lays the golden egg. I have fallen for sales pitches that I swore were from the lips of a saint. Nope.

    I think we all need to take a deep breath and allow as how the "speaker" may be puffing, or bloviating a bit about his/her success. Usually they have an idea and they want some sucker (like me) to spend a hundred hours testing it and report back to them.

    "Could we all just get along?"

    TwoCat
     
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  12. VegasGalPoker

    VegasGalPoker Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Admin-This type of behavior directed against pros and authors has happened to other pros (poker) and authors (poker) on other forums, a situation about which I previously made you aware. I have no idea what happened here, (and I'm not getting involved) but in the prior case it was young arrogant players who thought they knew more than an established pro who had aged poorly and whose memory was failing. They were disrespectful and abusive. I propose that is members disagree with others they must do so respectfully. Nastiness, name calling and flaming should be cause for permabannning. If these members are allowed to get away with treating ANYONE without respect who would want to be a member here? How about a single warning followed by a permaban if the warning goes unheeded.
     
  13. VegasGalPoker

    VegasGalPoker Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Zengrifter; your sentence ,"GamblingForums.com has a lot of members who are gambling and statistical illiterates" presupposes that people don't have the right to learn on the forum. Of course there are people who don't know everything. No one knows everything, even about their game of choice. Isn't a forum a place where people come together to toss around ideas and learn? If not, why have a forum in the first place? To congratulate one another on how brilliant they are? I hope not.

    I'm learning a whole lot in my game of choice. and even without that newly acquired knowledge I have been able to make quite a lot of money in my game of choice. I expect that I'll be an even better player, now. At the risk of you telling me I'm an idiot, I'll be the first to say I don't know everything. BUT I have an undergraduate degree with honors (private university), a law degree (private university) and a masters (state college). But I know little or nothing about many casinos games- I know a lot about poker and STILL lose. Not all the time, but a lot. I know a lot about video poker and am successful at it. Go figure. I'm always learning.

    I suspect that if any one of the WPT coaches who has taught at the 3 WPT bootcamps I've attended puts you to their tests you wouldn't be so happy with your own performance. Please don't take the position that everyone else is an idiot. Please don't make this a flaming forum. Most of use were enjoying the forum including, I thought, you. It's OK if you think someone is wrong-everyone has the right to speak their mind. You don't have to be the 'right' or 'wrong' math/state cop here. Be the Zen master your name alludes to; Zen is a peaceful state of ind, not a confrontational state of mind.
     
  14. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    VGP, it is more than that...

    Many of these so called 'pros' are just fiction writers, who are simply creating Casino stories and fictional people to tell stories. Younger, internet savvy and inquiring minds are finding that not only are the methods outlined in such books completely unworkable, based on conditions that might have existed 30 years ago that no longer exist, and don't have any proof that they ever worked in the first place. The Internet simply is allowing a lot of questioning of these authors and sharing of views about them.

    I have only been gambling since 2013, and bought lots of books on gambling, found just about every website on the subject on Advantage Play. Here is what I found:

    • Most of the books written are simply out-dated. Card counting is nearly impossible with the deep shuffle card now in the shoe, Video Poker pay tables are degraded and the players club exclude or suppress VP players point earning so that any Advantage play is near non-existent.
    • Some books are just promos to get you to sign up for the authors classes/seminars. There are quite a few of these, where when you read them you get all excited about the potential to win at the casinos, however the book tends to drive you to the authors website where 'secret' information will be reviled to you if you join - and joining is not cheap! (Many people call this a scam, and I am inclined to believe it is a scam)
    • Some book present fiction as fact! Controversial Dice Tossing techniques, card counting 'skimming' methods, and trend/streak systems are all very subjective as to the validity of them, and there is no proof that any of them give the player the edge. Many authors sell book and workshops about these methods and command a high ticket price for them too. When the real gamblers, statisticians and mathematicians look at these methods there is no basis in reality from where the author makes the claims from, and the method itself fails to overcome house edge. Critics claim that the author is just a con-artist selling snake oil.
    My seeking to 'find an edge' in the world of gambling has lead me to many websites where the web authors claim to 'have an edge' and for a price they will teach you. They are all scams!

    People like Bob Dancer and Michael Shackleford are probably the only two gambler/authors, in my opinion, who not only practice what they preach but make no outrageous claims or resent fiction as fact. Both will tell everyone that casinos are not like what they where 10 years ago, being harder to win at now, and that advantage play is much tougher to find. Furthermore, both will tell you that there is no magic system or physical skill you can develop that will make you a winner. They show you that it is all in the math and that only though optimal play, choosing the right casinos, pay tables and players club will survive/thrive.

    It is my opinion that this community has the right to question any claim the author makes and examine any proof of claim that is offered.
     
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  15. Gargoil

    Gargoil New Member Lineage to Founders

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    Going slowly off topic ?? Maybe ?? Remember the focus is this

     
  16. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Admin one effective solution is self moderation.
    That way a user who make a topic can delete replys that not belong to the topic.
    Victor run hes forum like that and its working.
     
  17. TwoCatSam

    TwoCatSam Member Founding Member

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    They can also delete differing viewpoints just to keep their nose above water. Hear me now and believe me later. This has happened to me many times. Just politely say, "Offer some proof" and your post is gone!

    Sam
     
  18. TEACH (AlSpath)

    TEACH (AlSpath) Active Member Founding Member

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    You must have differing opinions or you have no reason to discuss a subject.

    It's entirely up to the members to call out (respectfully as they can), those who post non-substantiated "facts" and ask them to present a rational or reference for their OPINION.

    If a member has information to add to the discussion by all means they should add it, but to attack someone else for their post or opinion is just not needed (IMHO). Attack the statement, pull it apart, prove it bogus, but leave the player out of it and continue the thread with facts, examples, sources or expert experience (wealth of knowledge). Of course, the experts will validate their claims as well, that is just the way they should be anyways.
     
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  19. TwoCatSam

    TwoCatSam Member Founding Member

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    TEACH

    Absolutely. But some will delete perfectly honest opinions just to "save face". I'm totally against the idea. Should we vote?

    Sam
     
  20. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    I vote for self moderated topics.

    Cheers
     

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