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Blackjack How do you guys handle casino tolerance?

Discussion in 'Blackjack Forum' started by Tater, Jul 27, 2021.

  1. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    @MDawg @KewlJ

    My formula is 10 x min table bet. This is to the upside and downside. Never leave a positive deck. Always exit a negative once the upside or downside had been reached
    Dont play over 100 hands per session. Never play more than 3 sessions per casino, per casino, per shift. IF i win 1st session Im done with that casino for that day's shift.

    These figures are ultra conservative. Logic is, if the casino can't take that little hit, I didn't want to play in the first place. Also, to return here after a backoff is downright dangerous.

    Im wondering how you guys handle casino tolerance. As well as other APs who care to contribute.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 28, 2021
  2. Moraine

    Moraine Active Member

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    If that is all you can do in Nevada
    If that is all you can do in Nevada, Go East, Young Man.
     
  3. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    Im happy with the return on my time/money investment.

    Considering Vegas.

    This question would go a long way towards the endless debate of who is real and who is fake. No?
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  4. MDawg

    MDawg Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the game. The game of Baccarat is considered a game of luck by the casinos, so anyone who has figured out a way to win at it without cheating may literally empty the trays and no casino is going to care because they think the tide will eventually turn the other way. At least, all the years I have won at Baccarat consistently during even trips where I have won mid six figures or low six figures back to back the most I have noticed is some suit who appears out of nowhere and stands at a respectful distance watching me. I mean, what could anyone figure out from that distance anyway?

    Blackjack is considered a game of skill and win too much at it or too consistently, and you will be shown the door. Been there. I was banned from blackjack at a major casino chain for a couple of years. That ban was lifted.

    However, the way I play both of these games is completely above board under my player cards fully RFB comp'ed. I don't hide and I don't limit my bets. For both of these games I will spread all the way from table min to table max and at Baccarat I play at my own private reserved tables with special high limits. I definitely do not handicap my own game trying to stay under the radar. I play as hard as the cards and circumstances warrant.

    It's hard enough to win consistently without deliberately playing wrong or lowering your bets just to avoid attention when you should be pushing your bets. If you screw around and play smaller than you should all you are doing is leaving money on the table, and will probably get banned eventually if your game is blackjack anyway, so why take less at Blackjack given that it is inevitable that you will attract heat. You think players like Don Johnson and Dana White underplay? no, professionals do not underplay their game they play to win always.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  5. KewlJ

    KewlJ Well-Known Member

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    Oh for God sakes. Dana White is not, or never was a proffessional blackjack player. He is a guy with a lot of money (from other sources) that likes to play high stakes blackjack and other games. He himself admits he is a bit of a degenerate gambler. The fact that he may count cards and play +EV when he can does not make him a professional player. A professional player earns a living from that activity.

    Now for a professional blackjack player, via card counting, it is about longevity. It is about taking that +EV, small advantage and grinding it out over the long run, past any short term period where normal variance effects anything. Long-term, long run!

    There are 2 schools of though. One is a slash and burn technique, where players or teams play very agressively, sometimes traveling the country doing so for as long as they can. Somewhat what Mdawg is describing above. And the result of that type of play is that a solo player can make several hundred k, maybe up to a million if he lasts a year. But most don't last a year. Most last 6 months at best and make $300-$600k and then can't get a game anywhere. You then find these guys writing books, making documentaries of their 6 months to a year play, or running blackjack "boot camps" or other 'how to' seminars.

    Real professional players play for years, decades. We figure out what is tolerated, in terms of everything from betting limits, to length of sessions. What kind of play falls within and out of different casino's tolerance levels. What kind of play, pit folks have to answer for. We design our play to stay within these tolerance levels and play a rotation big enough so as not to see the same personnel too frequently, and we grind out our advantage for years and decades. That sir, is a professional card counter! It is all about longevity!
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  6. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    KJ. Al Rogers pays $850 to have the CBJN list in Vegas updated. see Backjack info thread started by Zen King.

    Who better qualified than you? What a great
    opportunity to lead your Newbie's..

    I read that Wizard gets his info from CBJN. Clearly, in dire need of an update.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2021
  7. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    MDawg: Firstly, I dont know a thing about Baccarrat.

    It seems your approach in blackjack is look out for #1, devil may care, and balls to the wall mentality.

    Been there. Done that. Still paying the price.

    You sir, are the guy who scares the complete shit out of the guy in the pit. 100 guys like you in Vegas? Rules get worse and casinos lose interest in offering a game period.

    Ok. Your going to get yours while the gettin is good.
    But it sounds as though you NEVER lose.

    Interesting.
     

  8. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes I look at the pit bosses face when he reads the computer and want to say "that was over 10 years ago."
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  9. MDawg

    MDawg Well-Known Member

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    Nah, I've had some BIG Baccarat losing sessions. You'd have to follow all of them closely at [removed] or elsewhere to know that.

    Blackjack - I've dumped 20K more than once, I think I once dumped 50K, but I always came back and won the same or more, rather quickly. For me, a blackjack session where I cleared less than 20K was a waste of time. Remember I'm playing at high limit tables.
    With Baccarat it's different, I'll sometimes leave with as little as a few hundred dollars if I am coming back from negative, although usually I try to take mid to high four figures or more.

    Over all, I don't view blackjack as much of a challenge as far as the winning part, but I just know that if I go in there and win at it consistently my Vegas days will be numbered - so - I sprinkle the blackjack play in there sparingly amongst all the Baccarat, but when I play either game, I play to win and do not mess around.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2021
  10. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    So play black and not go back?

    FWIW. Suppose I play 20 sessions a week. Win 60%% lose 40%. That is 12-8. 1,000 profit is considered a win. $1,000 reduction is a loss. Very doable. CV Data Sims prove it.

    That's $4,000 a week. Play 50 weeks. Thats $200k annually. $1mil in 5 years.

    But if I bend them over for $10k a week? Im out of biz in 6 weeks. Hmmm. $60k or $1mil.:(
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2021
  11. KewlJ

    KewlJ Well-Known Member

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    Moses, I am not seeking part time employement. :p

    Las Vegas is divided into 4 routes (or territories) I believe and they rarely become available. Longtime players have most locked down.

    There is a route in Reno (probably similarly locked down), that you can go for though. :cool:
     
  12. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    KJ. You could probably do 90% off the top of your head.

    So you carry around a notebook for month or so and make a note of something that is different.

    Who then, could question the reports credibility?

    Easy $850 to pay for your parking spot. No?

    Plus, think of the service you provided to the Newbie's. What a great way to give back.
     
  13. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    MDawg. I went to your site. Wow. You had a mouthful to say. Especially about KJ.

    Thanks for clearing things up.
     
  14. MDawg

    MDawg Well-Known Member

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    [removed] isn't actually my site, but I have been posting there for about a year and a half now.

    And yes, I summarized the UNKewl one nicely there.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 31, 2021

  15. Ethan Silberstein

    Ethan Silberstein New Member

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    I like your formula of 10 x min table bet without leaving a positive deck. I heard many players do the same while playing online casinos but on the way to the winning pack, it is better to prepare well and check casinosters for more reviews of the best platforms for playing and develop the winning strategies based on this information.
     
  16. Tater

    Tater Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Ethan. I spent a ton of time working with qfit products to develop a game within casino tolerance and still have a profit worth my time. Easier said than done.
     

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