Poker I keep losing my bankroll

Had nothing and won $29 winning first in a cc freeroll
Lost it all not too long later
Like a month after my first win I won another 18 placing 2nd place
Lost it all within the week
So I'm placing pretty high on the cc freerolls so I can play decent
But im losing it all so quickly when I play out in the real world
Is there a big difference in skill? Is it just the bigger field? were the wins just flukes? I feel like I'm wasting my chances to build my bankroll from nothing because the free $57 cc blessed me with is gone within a week

Source.

 

Never go broke. That is the promise I made to myself 6 years ago.

Sometime ago Al Spath asked me to share my bankroll management feelings with the group. For those of you who don't know Al, he is a PSO faculty member who specializes in teaching beginners. The beginning player will either get over the hump and become a consistent winning player or he will get tired of the losses and fall by the wayside. Al is a big help to all players at this level.

I loved this game from the start and decided when I retired I wanted to play poker full time. To do this I had to be a winning player. I didn't have to make enough money to live on, I just had to continue to show positive results so that my plan made sense.

For the benefit of the new players let me explain bankroll management and the theory of "gamblers ruin". If you play a game where you have a positive advantage but have the possibility of losing, your long term chances for success will be directly proportional to the size of your bankroll. Even a casino with their built in advantage will go bust if they dont have adequate cash to sustain the inevitable ups and downs.

I started playing low limit live and online about 6 years ago. In live play I started at $3/$6 and online I started with $5 & $10 sats. I vowed I would never move up in limits until I had a bankroll of 200 times the big blind for the game I wanted to play. There is alot of talk about how much bankroll you need. I play a very low variance game so 200 X BB is more than adequate for me. People have tried to calculate the probability of a winning player going broke with this type of bankroll. I can tell you, in my case, I believe it to be close to zero. After 6 years my bankroll has never suffered even a 30% setback.

LIVE PLAY CASH

I don't get to play live that often so I spent almost 4 years playing $3/$6. When I was $1,600 ahead from that game I moved up to $4/$8. I knew I was ready for $10/$20 and I could afford to play at that level with my own money but my poker bankroll was not yet ready.

I played $4/$8 for a year until I had the $2,400 necessary to move to $6/$12. I have played $6/$12 for a few months. I am currently at $2,780 on my way to the $4,000 I need to play $10/$20.

ONLINE TOURNAMENTS

Thanks to PSO I have learned to play No Limit tournaments. This is all I play online. I play at Bugsys and one other site. I started at Bugsys with $400. I rolled some of my winnings at Bugsys into the other site. After taking out my original $400 I now have $1,984 at Bugsys and $3,440 at the other site. Even at these bankroll levels I usually enter sats or multi table tournaments with entry fees of $20 or less. The only exception is the $50+$5 Sunday tournament at Bugsys. I have played this maybe 6 times and cashed half the time including a win so I have a special love for this particular tournament.

LIVE TOURNAMENTS

Unfortunately I don't have accurate records for this area. Since I always lost for the first few years I funded this out of my own money. I played in lots of low buyin events to gain experience. In the last 6 months I have cashed for $1,000 and for $750. I put this back in my pocket. My gut feeling is that I am even at live tournament play but Im just not sure. This is not expensive. I don't enter anything over $100 unless PSO sponsors me (TY MARK). My plan here is to fund this area out of my pocket until I score a good win. When that happens I will have the fun of managing yet another bankroll.

I keep my live and online bankrolls seperate. Although I would be willing to lend one side money from the other side, the need has never come up.

I never add or remove money from these bankrolls. I never co mingle them with my personal money. I never consider the bankroll my money. Let me tell you it makes a huge difference in how you play when you dont play with your own money.

I realize my way is far too conservative for alot of you. I do hope hearing about this very disciplined approach helps some of you. As they say, "It works for me"

Aces & Faces,
Bill

Part II


It's been a few years since I wrote "How I Never Go Broke" and it's apparent it needs some updating.


Once again let me give credit to Al Spath for urging me to put my thoughts on bankroll management down on paper for everyone to read and contemplate.

I've been a member of PSO since November 2001 and I've seen alot of instructors come and go. This guy is the glue that holds this place together. Please thank him for his efforts the next time you see him.


First for an update on my personal bankroll results.


At the close of the last article I had developed separate bankrolls for the four areas of play. Here were my totals.



$2,780 LIVE CASH

$5,424 ONLINE TOURNAMENTS

$0 ONLINE CASH

$0 LIVE TOURNAMENTS


Here are today's totals.


$4,230 LIVE CASH

$5,200 ONLINE TOURNAMENTS

$1,550 ONLINE CASH

$5,800 LIVE TOURNAMENTS


Each bankroll has had it's ups and downs. Building each has been a learning experience.

It's funny but after awhile you begin to think of them as children that need nurturing and guidance as they grow.

Let's look at each of my children individually.



LIVE CASH. You have been my problem child. I raised you to $2,780 only to see you fall back to $1,600. Faced with my rule of 200 X BB bankroll I was faced with leaving $6/$12 and returning to $4/$8. I'ts hard to go back. I did have another choice.

I could try mini no limit cash games. I knew my NL game was much stronger than my limit game and frankly I was becoming bored with limit.

I have built this bankroll up to $2,480 playing $1/$2 NL. You will see I list my Live Cash Bankroll at $4,230 above. You math afficionados will notice there is $1,750 missing which leads us to a funny story.

In March my wife and I were in Las Vegas. On our last night I asked her what she wanted to do. Since she has recently begun playing poker, she wanted to play a low limit cash game.

We drove out to the Fiesta in Henderson and they had three tables of $2/$4 running. We took a seat at the same table. The dealer asked us if we knew about their specials. We've never played there so she explained they has a daily bonus hand which was 4-7's that evening. They also had a long term special going that paid a bonus for 4-K's with an Ace kicker. The guy next to us laughed and said, "yeah that's been up their for four months, so don't count on it."

Twice during the evening I was dealt pocket 7"s and knew each time after the turn that I was drawing dead to the bonus. Then I was dealt pocket kings and didn't think about the bonus at all. I flopped the set, turned an Ace and still didn't think about the bonus. When the river was a King it hit me like a flash.

The bonus paid $1,750 to me and each player at the table got $200. It was a fun evening. At first I didn't think this was money that should be added to my bankroll. Then I realized I had been paying rake into these things for years out of the same bankroll so of course this should be added.


ONLINE TOURNAMENTS. I still plod along playing low limit SNG's and some low limit MTT's. At the height of the UIGEA scare I took 95% of these funds out. Well I should say I took some out and the Government took some out. I still include the funds being held by my Government and hope they are just on vacation and will return some day.


ONLINE CASH. I finally started playing online cash. I started with limit and now play only NL. Once again I play very low, mostly $.50/$1.00.


LIVE TOURNAMENTS. I ended Part 1 saying I was waiting for my first decent win to begin this bankroll. It happened a month later with a $4,100 win at Binions.

I play primarily daily tournaments with entry fees in the $50-$100 range. I won some Sponsorship Points on PSO and was able to play some $500 and $1,000 tournaments. Unfortunately I have never cashed in one of these.

I do plan on playing a number of events at the Orleans Open this July. It would be very nice to take down my first big prize.

Since I pulled out the majority of my online funds and since it is near impossible to get them back in the online sites, I have been forced to adhere once again to my original bankroll disciplines.

You have probably seen the story about Chris "Jesus" Ferguson's experiment. He is building a $10,000 online bankroll starting with nothing. He played freerolls until he got a few dollars to play cash. He says people can't believe it's him when he is playing for dollars. He truly understands the principles involved. Yes I take some kidding from my wife when she walks by and sees me playing a $2.00 SNG or $.10/$.25 NL. I guess it's just my makeup. I play just as hard and have just as much fun winning $5 as $500.


I'd like to give you a final thought in closing. Did you ever wonder what causes the great "cashout conspiracy"? For those of you not familiar with this, it is the wideheld belief that if you cash out money online, they turn the switch on you and punish you for your actions. The cause is simple. Players put $500 (if that) in their online account and start playing $5/$10 cash or $50 SNG's. If they are good enough or fortunate enough to survive "gamblers ruin" and actually make a few dollars, they take a portion of it out. Do they then lower the limits they are playing? Of course not. They continue at the same limits but now "gamblers ruin" has an even better chance at their bankroll. If you want to enjoy this game and play for a lifetime on the same bankroll please follow these guidlines.


LIMIT CASH: Have 200 X the BB.


NO LIMIT CASH: Have 20 buy-ins. You may have to break this rule to get started since this would require $4,000-$6,000. OK I will allow you to take some shots here but certainly have 10 buy ins.


SNG'S: Have 25 buy-ins for the level you are playing.


MTT'S: Have 25 buy-ins for the level you are playing.


Aces and Faces,

Debonair (Bill)

 

Even IF you had a verifiable advantage over the other players you are likely OVERBETTING your BR.