Intro Looking for advantage players

So you won't mind reciprocating and allowing us to go to your Forum to invite members to join our community (and our private Advantage Play Sub-forums), correct?

For the record, our community is intended for all aspects of gambling, including what yours is narrowly intended for (see the second word in our slogan).

If this is what you believe, then there is absolutely no reason to believe yours will be any different since your registrations are completely open to anyone and you do not do any background checks on your members. By the time you close your registrations, your membership will already be infiltrated and it will be too late.

Your ignorance is certainly showing now. Most gambling forums are actually run by gambling insiders who naturally have an agenda that eventually leads to censorship, and not by internet marketers like us who have no skin in the gambling industry and therefore no agenda and no reason to censor (see the first word in our slogan, then our third).

Please provide evidence of this false accusation because it is way too early in your site's existence to already be damaging your credibility by showing you are willing to say anything without backing it up in order to make your new site seem more than it really is compared to others. You need to establish some credibility before you have any credibility to lose, so if you haven't established any credibility yet and you are already losing it, then you are in negative territory which is a very difficult hole to climb out of.

For the record, our site is uncensored, so we don't have to "selectively" allow anything that respects our rules (again, see the third word in our slogan).

Yet we convinced the most famous Advantage Players in the world to help us start this community as they believed in our vision. However, most did not participate actively because -- as you will quickly realize -- the majority of gamblers with real actionable information that can actually make money tend to keep it to themselves. This is why we predict your site, with its very narrow focus, will not succeed in its current state.

So you tried to advertise your site to our members via PM and you did not succeed?

It is and it worked exactly as intended in this case.

You clearly don't because of the very few members that you have so far (just 17), one of your most active is a Compulsive Liar (see here and here) that, according to a member here, is a convicted scammer and he is already posting links on your forum to his commercial site that we've prohibited here. This is one of a total of just four threads on your site, so you aren't off to a good start.

We predict this is exactly what your site will become, a marketplace for sellers trying to make a quick buck. Since you don't have any restrictions on PMs, a lot of that selling will actually occur privately right under your nose as spammers and scammers will join and just spam links to their commercial sites to all your users via PM without you even being aware of what is going on.


Lastly, here's a word of advice: when going to other Forums to promote your new Forum, do it the way we did, without debasing the Forum you are using to promote yourself. Making false accusations about the very site you are using to promote your own similar site reflects poorly on your credibility, which is not a good start as you already have a steep uphill climb to establish any credibility. We don't generally participate here unless members involve us, and for some reason you are now probably regretting, you chose to involve us.

We wish you the best of luck, but if you involve us again, then we will duly comply.

 

Perfect, so you've re-confirmed that other sites can be promoted on yours and there are no rules against that, setting up the perfect target site for sellers and scammers.

Do you mean useless fluff like this:



Where the last 20 posts on your site right now are mostly by a single member in a thread titled "GAMBLINGFORUMS.COM IS DYING"? That sounds very familiar to a very popular thread on our site. So much for doing without the fluff and for having such a narrow focus and attracting Advantage Gamblers. We don't mind the fluff and we expect it considering we are uncensored, but we don't try to make our site out to be something it's not.

Except you're making the wrong assumption that you're attracting genuine Advantage Players when -- in fact -- you have no idea what you are attracting because you don't do background checks on your members. It's like you setting up a masked party that anybody in the world can get in to, and then telling the rest of the world that all the rich & famous are at your party, but when just 20 random masked folks walk in off the street, you claim your party is "already succeeding". You sound like a charlatan.

Time to prove you wrong yet again (this is fast becoming a sport): you admit further below that you saw our Press Release, and right at the top of our Press Release it clearly says:

Calling those folks "systems sellers" is like calling Billionaire and President-Elect Trump a door-to-door Lego salesman who just got voted in as Student Council President at Poughkeepsie Middle School. Love him or hate him, that would be a complete and utter mischaracterization, just like you've done above. You are debasing people who earned more credibility in the last hour than you will earn in a lifetime.

Which is why, as we've pointed out in our previous response, you are already flooded with sellers such as SteveH posting commercial links that we prohibit here.

It certainly is when you're running an uncensored and independent platform. It's really not difficult to grasp how having knowledge about and/or ties to something gives way to opinions and interests which give way to bias and agendas which give way to censorship. This isn't rocket science, but considering how much we are having to explain to you, it does not surprise is that you haven't understood this very simple concept yet.

Thank you for confirming that you are not actually accusing us of selectively allowing posts to promote services to monetize this site and that you have zero evidence to back up your "observations", observations we've already proved incorrect and inconsistent.

Now your lack of intelligence is clearly showing. Allow us to dissect what you said above. You said that perhaps we are selectively allowing posts promoting services (false) and that's how our site is monetized (false) and that our experts "spamming" then leaving is the evidence for that (false). This is an easy one. New members joining and being allowed to post about whatever they are trying to promote is only "selective" if we don't allow others to do it. You haven't proven or otherwise shown the "selective" part, yet we already explained our "uncensored" part above, yet you claim your lack of evidence is "self-evident". Furthermore, posting company news and Forex signal graphs every once in a while also doesn't break our rules as long as they aren't selling or linking to their sites in their posts. So again, you have already shown time and again that you are willing to say anything with no regard to your own credibility. Did we selectively allow you to post the URL to your site in your intro post as per our Link Policy? Yes. Does that mean you are paying us or we are working together? Not at all. So we can easily use your own Intro thread to refute your ridiculous speculation of our "selectiveness" that you based on false observations.

Don't be intellectually lazy and dishonest by being purposefully vague so that you get the benefit of planting seeds of doubt without having to make any actual effort. What is your observation? Be specific.

Get your eyes checked and then point to where we advertise our Forums as being "full of experts". Either point to the evidence or admit you just lied about what you claim to have "observed".

We advertise our Founding Members as being gambling experts because they are. Does that mean all of them are? Of course not and we never said that. But a signficant number of them are, as reflected in our Press Release. Their cumulative centuries worth of expertise doesn't just suddenly get erased because some anonymous person waltz's in here and thinks they have any authority on any matter simply because they started an inactive forum using free forum software on a freely available domain name they spent just $13 registering, a forum which they believe so little in that they only registered their domain for the minimum amount of one year and then literally hosted it on a hosting company called -- we kid you not -- "HoboHost" that says they'll "host your website for just $1":



This shows you don't even believe in your own vision as you won't bet more than a cheap lunch on it. Show us you're serious, show us you're not a fly-by-night operation and that you'll be around in 10 years, and spend the measly $100 to renew it for the maximum of 10 years and host it on a site not marketed to hobos. Otherwise, a new site claiming to aspire to greatness but that's only willing to bet a pathetic $13 on itself for the minimum one year while hosting their site on a web host for hobos isn't going to convince absolutely anyone with an IQ above the average life expectancy that they're legitimate. So a good way to start showing that you're serious about your project would be putting your money where your mouth is. We hope that as a result of this post, you now spend that extra $100. But something tells us you won't and this has just become a lose-lose for you now that we've publicly put you on the spot since you chose to continue our little dance. If you don't spend the $100 to extend the registration of your domain, then you prove our point that you don't even believe in your own site and vision to bet more than a lunch on it. If you do spend that money, then we just forced you to increase your total investment in your site by about 700%. Do you see what involving us has cost you? But we're not finished with you yet. Things are about to get real. Read on.

You are trying to have it both ways as your argument continues to crumble. You claim above that we "selectively" allow spammers, and that our Founding Members are mere "system sellers", yet you claim those Founding Members just left. If we are selectively permitting spammers, then why aren't our Founding Members taking advantage of our supposed spam-haven? Because you have absolutely no clue what you are talking about. It was the exact opposite. For example, we lost world-renowned Founding Member Poker Players because they expected their Founding Member status to allow them to promote themselves directly. When they learned that we would not be making exceptions, they decided not to participate. You also falsely claimed that we "offered them free spam (in posts" which is a complete fabrication. No one is allowed to sell, promote themselves, or link to their sites in any posts other than their Intro post like you have done above. Our Members can only promote themselves indirectly via Signatures, which has strict requirements new users will purposely not find easy to meet. But watching you desperately attempt to dissect our history and how we came about our rules as if you had any part in our founding shows, yet again, how you are willing to say anything regardless of truth, evidence, or its impact on your credibility (or lack thereof).

This must certainly be the first community you run then (which, judging by the free software and cheap domain name, and even cheaper hosting that you used, we would be willing to bet it is and we aren't even betting folks). Here are the stats from your forum as of right now:

We're not posting that to put you down, we're posting it to tell you that claiming any kind of success with topics and members you can count with your hands and feet is very naive to the point of being adorable. You just spammed your site on various websites, so this is the one moment you will have most traction in the early days, and yet you have very little activity, with the last 20 of your 85 posts being about another Forum (ours). Once the novelty of your site wears off (which will happen sooner than you think), you will need to have substance and a compelling offer to keep people interested and coming back. So if you rest on your laurels now thinking you are already succeeding, wait 2 months, then 6, and then revisit in a year. For example, we are so far ahead of you with about a 2 year jump start, and yet we are far from succeeding nor would we make such a foolish claim, so for you to think you are already succeeding with the dire quantity and quality of activity in your new $13, hosted-by-HoboHost, free forum site tells us you have little-to-no experience running Forums.

You don't have any credibility to earn the benefit of the doubt about that. Regardless, unlike at other communities, at this one you have to establish yourself before you can privately message someone (and use the Signature), so that your credibility is known beforehand. No one can metaphorically walk in from the street anonymously and just impose themselves on others here privately. In other words, we make solicitation on this site very difficult, and that's by design.

The link he posted is to his commercial roulette site where he sell roulette systems for thousands of dollars. Have another look at it and see the prices that he charges for the systems that he sells. When he first joined and started posting his site links in all his posts, we had to look into his site to determine whether we could allow links to his site or not, and it was obvious within less than 10 seconds that his site is one giant sales pitch. Good on him, but don't tell us a system seller is just "finding partners". He's finding customers. Don't be so naive (although, again, it is adorable).

You've made it crystal clear by now that you are completely incapable of forming correct conclusions when making "observations", so we wish you the best of luck. Sellers and scammers are going to run right over you and you won't even know it until you're tasting rubber. But feel free to completely ignore the links in SteveH's signatures here on our site (which point to where he could not back up his lies about us) when making up your mind about him, and just listen to what you want to hear and assume everyone has the best of intentions and your best interest and that of your site's in mind.

It is very telling when an anonymous new member with an agenda and competing site who joined less than a week ago blindly and automatically (and dare we say "conveniently") takes the side of our 2 least credible members. Furthermore, you seem curiously intimate with the history of our site and its members for someone who just joined. We'll give you the undeserved benefit of the doubt and assume you've been doing a lot of catching up since joining and aren't actually one of our old members. But let us once again dissect what you just said as it's as disingenuous and misleading as most of what you have posted here since you joined.

First, you mentioned the speculation about us is based on "facts". Again, what are the "facts"? Don't be lazy, list the "facts" that add validity to yours and others' speculation about us so that we can refute them. Don't just claim the speculation is based on facts without actually saying what those supposed "facts" are.

Second, let's have a look at what "speculation" is. It's "the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence." Do you see that? A theory or conjecture. Not a fact. Formed without firm evidence. So if you, as you stated above, are claiming Boz and SteveH have been speculating based on facts (i.e. evidence), then it's not speculation by definition. Except, of course, neither of our tagged members provided the evidence. So that refutes your point that it was speculation based on facts.

Thirdly, for it to be speculation, the writer needs to make it clear that what they are stating is just a theory and not a fact. But SteveH and Boz never did that when they falsely accused us. They stated their false accusations as if they were facts, and they did so repeatedly, making them compulsive liars.

Let us walk you through some examples so that you understand the difference because we have a feeling you still don't get it.

Sitting in a crowded theater and yelling "Fire!! Fire!!" without actually having seen any smoke let alone a flame is not speculating. Seeing a rather poor man dressed in rags wearing a gold watch and yelling in public that "he's a thief!" without having witnessed any crime is not speculating. Saying it once, can be considered a simple error in judgement or a momentary lapse of reason. Keep parroting it knowing you never saw any smoke in the theater (let alone a flame) or the poor man steal the watch (and knowing that it's also possible it was his last sentimental possession before he lost everything and became homeless), and it becomes clear that you are intentionally saying something that you have no evidence is true, which is to lie compulsively. Note that only those who actually told lies about us got tagged as Compulsive Liars. The Forex members may be scammers, we don't know. But we know we aren't what either SteveH or Boz have falsely accused us of repeatedly without any evidence and which they were unable to prove once they were told to put up or be tagged. That's why they got tagged. We are very transparent here, and we link to how each member got tagged in their respective Signatures so anyone can follow the discussion that lead to their tagging. You will see that in both cases, they didn't speculate. They made statements of fact against us that they could not back up. They did it over and over again until they were told to put up or be tagged.

So, continuing the example above, let's take Boz, for example who you were so quickly to align yourself with. He wrote over 10 posts in one thread yelling "scammer!" without providing any evidence of why the target of his accusations were actually scammers. It took him getting tagged for lying about us to stop being lazy and actually dig something up on the Forex company he was badgering. Had he done that from the start rather than blindly yelling "scammer! scammer! scammer!", then he wouldn't be in the position he is today. But he is a compulsive liar who did not have any evidence at the time yet felt compelled to publicly accuse another member of something egregious over and over and over again, and then made the one fatal mistake SteveH is already familiar with which was to falsely accuse us knowing we would know in that case that he was outright lying and so he would never be able to back it up. But keep aligning yourself with our 2 least credible members and then complain in unison when you are put on the spot and can't back up your supposed statements of facts. You can even call yourselves..."The Speculators".

Again, we see who you are associating with which certainly says more about you than it does about us. You can take the sides of those compulsive liars all you want, but again, it goes to your credibility (or lack thereof) and the three of you seem to be meant for each other as you all share common traits.

See, now this isn't speculation. You are stating this as a fact. So provide the evidence for this statement because there are at least 2 Private Forums that neither you or Boz or SteveH are privy to and which predate the public Forums you see now. Once again proving you are willing to say anything regardless of truth, evidence, or its impact on your credibility (or lack thereof).. Why do you keep making that mistake? Because you have no credibility, so you have nothing to lose. But see, that's where you're wrong. You have $13 to lose if you don't gain some credibility quickly.

Yes, we can. See here (wiki), here (wiki), here (wiki), here (wiki), here (wiki), here (academia), here (academia), here (academia), and here (wiki). We dare you to publicly call any one of those expert Founding Members a "system seller running scams". Go ahead and don't back down now after setting yourself up so easily for this one.

Based on the fact that you would think the experts we just linked to above are "system sellers running scams" tells us that the little we know about the gambling industry is still monumentally superior to whatever it is you supposedly know. We did our research before deciding who to contact. Although imperfect due to our lack of industry knowledge, we used external vetting for most cases instead of relying on our gut. If an author, were they well-received and well-reviewed? If famous, did they have a detailed and well-cited Wikipedia page? If an academic, did they publish paper and have a relevant academic background? So on and so forth. Does that mean that 100% of our Founding Members are legitimate? Of course not, particularly since a lot of our Founding Members are the top members of other gambling forums and therefore anonymous. But for you to come here, a new, anonymous member running a new $13 "Advantage Player" site on HoboHost trying to put us and our world-renowned Founding Members down just to elevate yourself by going out of your way to lose all credibility in the specific and narrow field you are trying to conquer, tells us you will never succeed at your goal. Without having any idea who you are, we would be willing to bet that any of the experts we linked to above has forgotten more about gambling than you will ever learn, and we aren't even betting folks.

Thank you for admitting that you don't know because that's our entire thesis about you: that you don't know anything yet you won't hesitate to speculate and even state falsehoods as fact, which shows you have no credibility and aren't even making an effort to gain one since you, like your equals SteveH and Boz, can't back up any of your false accusations against us.

Again, you are speaking from a position of ignorance as if you were in a position of knowledge. We hate to have to keep repeating it, but it once again proves you have zero credibility. First of all, we don't "allow" anyone to spam. You won't find a single Forex post with links precisely because we've removed links and warned the Forex members who violated our rules. This is the point you and your new companion Boz do not understand. As long as a member respects our limited number of rules, they can do whatever they want here. Uncensored does not mean lawless. So if a Forex company wants to join and regularly post news about their company without posting any links, then they are free to do so. Members interested in their services can go straight to the horse's mouth and ask them any questions. Those that are skeptical are free to find negative reviews about the company and ask them about it. What they cannot do is attempt to derail a thread by parroting the same unfounded accusations over and over and over again month after month after month. Again, notice how your new peer Boz only decided to dig up actual potential support for his accusations after he was tagged as a compulsive liar. He had all the time in the world and several warnings from us to do it beforehand, but it was easier to just make unfounded accusations than to actually do some research. Had he done that, then the Forex company in question would have had the opportunity to respond and they could have had an open debate about the legitimacy of the company in question. You can't have an open debate with someone that just parrots "scammer! scammer! scammer!" without backing it up. This really shouldn't be this difficult to grasp.

There you go again, making a false accusation without evidence. You must be losing patience since you are no long speculating and are just outright lying without backing it up. Straight out of SteveH and Boz's playbook. But -- of course -- considering we had to teach you what "speculation" was above with examples and everything, and considering how chummy you've become with 2 of the least credible members we have here, and having witnessed your credibility sinking so low it has to look up to the Titanic, this sentence from you does not surprise us at all. But let's continue...

More lies and it's time to prove you wrong yet again:

See, we use evidence to back up our words, just like we linked to the evidence that you host your $13 site on HoboHost and to the evidence of our world-renowned expert Founding Members that you tried to discredit. The evidence above clearly shows we've been moderating the Forex company in question for almost a year, with the October 4 warnings leading to a temporary ban for violating our rules about linking to external sites, which unequivocally and directly refutes your false accusation (not speculation) that "They post here, and in exchange you allow their link spam".

The only place a member can put links to their commercial sites is in their Intro post (like you did) and in their Signatures which has strict criteria that very few members here have met.

You are insinuating that we said we allow link spam in our Press Release when what we actually said is:

Notice the difference between your insinuations of "link spam", and the indirect promotion we allow in forum Signatures. This is a unique approach that has served us well, yet you are trying to bill it as colluding with spammers and allowing link spam when we specifically said:

This continuous mischaracterization on your part is the reason you have zero credibility with us. We don't know if you're doing it on purpose or if you lack intelligence, but it doesn't matter because either one results in you having no credibility.

You have mistaken us for people who care what your forum is or what you claim you are or what you claim it's for. You haven't provided any proof that you are an advantage player, which bring to mind one of the internet's most famous comics:



So you can claim to be whatever you like, but the only thing you have proven so far is that you are a liar and a charlatan with no credibility willing to say anything and debase anyone to try to elevate your Hobo-hosted site.

We, on the other hand, don't claim to be anything. But if we claimed to be Advantage Players, then you can be certain we would prove it. Yet you claim to be something to add validity and credibility to your site, but you never prove it. The pattern is clear. You have no credibility.

You literally just claimed in the sentence before it that you are a supposed advantage player creating a site for advantage players. As a result, you are the exact opposite of "independent".

Speaking of how "independent" you are, shall we show you how easy it is to speculate and plant seeds of doubt about someone? We'll even back it up with "evidence".

You claim you are an advantage player creating a site for other advantage players.

Yet your "CasinoPlayer.pro" site is listed on the LinkedIn profile of the man that runs Nexus Gaming Intelligence, a Casino events and consultancy company:




Unlike you, Boz, and SteveH, when we raise questions about someone's integrity, we provide evidence to back it up, and even when we provide evidence that none of you ever provide against us, we don't make an outright accusation. But even to the untrained eye, a site targeted to Advantage Players that happens to be listed on the LinkedIn profile of a person running a company that provides intelligence and analytics for the Casino industry would suggest your site is nothing more than a Honey Pot against Advantage Players.

That's how you speculate. And we warned you above that things were about to get real. They just did.