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LovePotion9 has refused to cooperate with our Sock Puppet Investigation

Discussion in 'Suggestions / Comments / Criticisms / Problems' started by Admin Team, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Admin Team

    Admin Team Administrators Admins

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    LovePotion9 was accused by nate of being a sock puppet. We always take such accusations very seriously and investigate them behind the scenes in case their is any validity to them.

    In the case of LovePotion9, we looked into their account and noticed that they only connect via Proxies which hides their true IP address.

    So we sent them a Private message advising them of the accusation levied against them and our observation that they connect exclusively via Proxies, and kindly requested that they stop connecting via Proxies so we could ascertain their genuine IP address to match against existing accounts.

    LovePotion9 refused to cooperate and threatened to go to another site and take all the other users here with them.

    As a result of their lack of cooperation and our resulting inability to ascertain whether their account is truly a sock puppet for another account here, we have revoked LovePotion9's ability to post, create threads, and like other posts indefinitely. However, we have continued to grant them access to our Private Messages so that we maintain that channel of communication open in case they wish to cooperate.
     
  2. whodat

    whodat Member

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    Looks like LP9 has been banned.
     
  3. shadroch

    shadroch Member

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    I thought this site was uncensored.
     
  4. whodat

    whodat Member

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    Apparently LP9 was accused of being a sock puppet and Admin tried to check into it. There was no cooperation and LP9's postings got shut down.
     
  5. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    yeah, I am not sure about this "proxy' stuff. Does it always mean someone is deceptive..or just wants to protect his anonymity

    Personally I think the use of a proxy should be used as a means to justify a banning if someone is seen to have questionable or deceiving tendencies. Then the use of proxies can be thrown in his face.

    But just because someone throws shit against the wall and has an accusation that has no real merit and sees if it will stick..and a guy has a proxy....is that a death sentence if the guy is otherwise well behaved and has no other "issues".

    Again, I am not sure what proxies are all about. Does it always mean deception?//I have no clue
     
  6. Don'tLookNow

    Don'tLookNow Member

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    Everything here is "by design" to suck people into posting worthwhile stuff. As things pick up, the people who started the ball rolling are "uncensored" out the door.

    This is the old BaccaratForums.com , of 101 simple similarities. If you check the Wayback Machine for this forum, you'll find that it ran for a couple of years, then faded out precisely for the few years BF's sprang up, and came back when BF's disappeared. Admin Mike from Florida Keys area, he's a web designer (the "number-1" designer at that too) and part-time real estate agent of some sort. Same old lying tricky Mike. You wouldn't believe the forum software tricks to "uncensored" ban-once-thus-encouraged posters at BF's.

    Same old same old, only ever more tricks. Always someone like Larry to come along and make the forum his own little project. Nowadays though, no one with the right connections to other boards will become involved.
     
  7. Don'tLookNow

    Don'tLookNow Member

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    Depends how much you want to pay for the "anonymity". Seriously. It could take decades for the cops to track anyone down even with all the right warrants.
     

  8. Boz

    Boz Well-Known Member

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    Good chance Freddy and LP9 are some combination of B9 and or Benbackoff/1BB from WoV. Larry has always been Larry on the forums I know about and seems the same person in his views. He even has continued feuds from forums. No doubt it is the same guy. I find it hard to believe someone who would question everything involving suspensions at WoV like 1BB would just disappear after being banned there. Magically "new" posters continued the debate here. But maybe 1BB decided it just wasn't that important to him and never came here. It's possible and so are the dice rolls Alan observed. Anyone betting?
     
  9. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    What from this forum? Or wov...
     
  10. whodat

    whodat Member

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    This forum. There is a message from Admin in a different post
     
  11. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

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    In today's internet and time, I wouldn't think it was a case for banning. A lot of people protect their identities in many ways, and a lot of programs change proxies automatically. Browsers can even do it. I think there is more to the story. And I doubt my little rhetoric had anything to do with it. Probably if I had time to look at who else was banned at the same time.
     
  12. Admin Team

    Admin Team Administrators Admins

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    They were not banned, their posting privileges have just been revoked indefinitely as a precaution until they decide to cooperate with our investigation by connecting without a proxy.

    It is, but it's not lawless. If it were lawless, then we'd be filled with spam and sock puppets.

    With how easy it is to use (and detect) proxies, if we do not err on the side of caution when it comes to proxies, then we will be quickly filled with multiple sock puppets exploiting our uncensored nature as soon as word runs out that we'll give users the benefit of the doubt when posting via proxies. In that scenario, members would be allowed to have as many accounts as they wished simply by using a different proxy server for each account, something that is very easy to accomplish with today's VPN software. It is precisely due to our uncensored nature that we vehemently protect the integrity of the community from such potential deception, and it's why we err on the side of caution when a member won't cooperate with our investigation. Imagine if OneArmedBandit, who as you know was caught using multiple accounts, was hiding behind proxies and swearing to us that his sock puppet was a separate individual? Or Rinzler who had 3 sock puppets? If we had given them the benefit of the doubt in such a scenario, then they would have been able to continue with their sock puppet(s) indefinitely. Or imagine if they or others were to find out now that proxies are a valid defense against sock puppet accusations, that would open a can of worms we wish to keep tightly closed because we not only want our members to be able to freely express themselves here, but to also know that when others express themselves, it is their genuine opinion and not deception.

    Anyone can feel free to use proxies, but if we request you to please temporarily connect without one because you have been accused of being a sock puppet, and inform you of the consequences if you do not comply, and you still refuse, then your account may be limited as a precaution until you cooperate. So we recommend our members connect without a proxy as it only brings more attention and suspicion to their account.

    LovePotion9 is not banned, so this is not a death sentence at all. They can still login, search the Forums, access the hidden Private sub-forums, etc. and -- more importantly -- communicate with us via Private Messages. They just cannot contribute to this site until we are satisfied that they are not another member's sock puppet. So they are in full control of when they can participate here again. If they are not a sock puppet, then they can easily prove it and restore full access to their account. If they are a sock puppet, then they will be given an opportunity to publicly confess, and their accounts will be merged so they can continue participating under a single account without deception.

    No, not at all. However, if you are accused of being a sock puppet and we ask you kindly to connect without a proxy so we can confirm your real IP address, and you refuse, then that will not help your case. All LovePotion9 had to do to clear any suspicion was to temporarily disconnect their proxy/VPN and connect to the site directly. That's it. But they refused. Our responsibility is to protect the community, not a single member, so we erred on the side of caution. That does not mean LovePotion9 is a sock puppet, however.

    There isn't much mystery to the story. You accused them (and others) of being a sock puppet. Whenever a member accuses another member of being a sock puppet, we quietly look into it behind the scenes. So we looked into all the members you accused, and only one of them stood out as connecting exclusively via proxies. We asked for their cooperation. They refused, so their account was limited. That's it.

    Sock puppets -- or the mere suggestion of their existence -- can destroy communities from the inside as they eat away at the credibility of the members and therefore the community as a whole. So we take them very seriously.

    Folks, to be clear, we have no evidence that LovePotion9 is a sock puppet. They just did not help us prove they are not a sock puppet, and that proof was very quick and simple to provide, so we had to limit their account until they cooperate.

    But let us be very clear. If you are accused of being a sock puppet, and you only connect to our site through proxies, and we ask you to please cooperate by connecting directly without a proxy, and you refuse, then your account will be limited.

    Sock Puppets -- just like Spammers -- will not have a safe haven on this site. This site is a safe haven for genuine individuals who wish to share or discuss any idea about gambling, no matter how controversial, without fear of repercussions.
     
  13. KewlJ

    KewlJ Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a "guilty until proven innocent" type policy rather than the traditional "innocent until proven guilty". But whatever.

    I am probably the least or one of the least tech savy guys on this or any site. I have no idea about proxy's and all that, although I have heard talk of it, have no idea how that stuff works and no interest. I post under my handle. I am proud to post under my handle. Well most of the time....sometimes looking back after the fact, I am not proud of something I said in the moment, but I always take responsibility for it. There is nothing I want to say that I can't post under my handle.
     
  14. whodat

    whodat Member

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    Thanks for clearing that up. I stand corrected as I started the word about LP9 being "banned."
     

  15. whodat

    whodat Member

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    KJ,

    I have only started messing around with different forums for about over a year now and I only have one handle in all my forums.
     
  16. Admin Team

    Admin Team Administrators Admins

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    They're not guilty because we don't have evidence to prove they are guilty. They just haven't proven their innocence when doing so only required them to briefly connect to our site without using a proxy. Yet they refused knowing they would lose their posting privileges. We don't know why they refused, but this is a delicate balance. Imagine a site where unlimited sock puppets were allowed as long as each connected via a separate proxy. It would be a disaster and no one would believe anything anyone said.

    The simple fact that you just had to post this paragraph proves how damaging the mere suspicion of sock puppets can be to a community. Everyone starts getting on the defensive, and suspecting each other. This is why we crack down hard on sock puppets. We want our members to know that if someone is posting here (particularly after accusations of being a sock puppet), it's because we are confident it is their only account which truly represents their own opinions.

    We have no problem with folks posting anonymously here as long as they do so with only one account. Sharing your IP address with us doesn't identify you as we don't have the power to issue subpoenas to ISP's to find out who is behind the IP address. Furthermore, we will never reveal any members' personal details unless required to by law (e.g. subpoena).
     
  17. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    How about ....If someone accuses anyone of anything..they have to provide compelling proof.. quotes using similar words...something more than sharing a similar viewpoint.with a disliked oerson.
    We have a situation like mccarthyism.....
    Just some facts would be nice.....or else you get an accusation based on the dislike of a person's views....where there is no question that there is no basis for the charge.

    Taking people seriously and jumping on any and all charges are 2 different things.
    Couldn't you require specific facts before attempting an investigation
    Rinzler///had real issues brought to your attention where names used by others at wov were appearing here where the original people on the other site claimed it wasn't them. So that was a real concern since it seemed there was an attempt at deception.very worthwhile to investgate
    And in your other example....If another poster started attacking me in similar fashion as oab...I would document the similarities and send to you. But i would wait till I had sufficient facts.
    I don't know..but we're you privately provided with compelling facts regarding lp9.
    Because it's laughable that they could be the same person. There are so many real facts that blow that accusation out of the water

    It may. Be a little disjointed....Using phone
     
  18. OneArmedBandit

    OneArmedBandit Active Member

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    Why is my name being tossed around in the above statement? It's NOT on topic at all. Oh yeah "birds of a feather"
     
  19. Admin Team

    Admin Team Administrators Admins

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    The problem with that is that it's difficult to provide compelling evidence against a sock puppet since they tend to cover their tracks well, and it's easy for a sock puppet to change their style of writing so that they don't look like another member. The real question is, if a member accused of being a sock puppet is always connecting via a Proxy, why wouldn't they connect without one just for a moment so that we can easily confirm they are not a sock puppet and clear their name? Why would an active member willingly give up their participation here instead of showing us their real IP? There is only one logical explanation we can think of, but we reserve judgement due to lack of evidence. We understand that this is not an ideal scenario since we are taking action (albeit reversible) with lack of evidence, but when the user in question is the reason for that lack of evidence and they don't care to cooperate, then we are forced to err on the side of caution to protect the integrity of the community. The alternative would be chaos.
     
  20. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    OK thanks for the quick response. I said my peace. I will leave it here
     

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