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Las Vegas New to Vegas; any advice?

Discussion in 'Las Vegas Forum' started by SplitFaceDisaster, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Hello All,

    I`m a new Vegas resident (just joined the forum as well) and plan to start counting here soon. I`ve browsed a good bit of the posts on here and have gathered a good bit of information, but without asking specific questions to those "in-the-know", there`s only so much I guess I`ll find that`s specific to me. So here goes... I`m planning on playing part-time, maybe 15-20 hours a week if possible, focusing only on shoe games, playing unrated, and with a hit-and-run strategy of not playing anywhere very long. One of my main concerns is longevity since I plan on living here for at least a couple years. Obviously I`ll eventually get backed off a lot of places, so even when spreading around my action a lot should I maybe only go for around 10 hours a week to possibly keep the pit personnel`s short term memory of my play/face fuzzier in order to try to last longer? Other things I`m trying to figure out are how closely the shoe games are watched when it comes to wonging. I know heat here is worse than anywhere else in the US, so if I try employing that strategy for even a short matter of time anywhere I feel like there`s a good possibility I`ll out myself way more quickly than just sitting down and spreading for a short time. I don`t have a huge bankroll, but it`s big enough to not have to wong at the $25 min. level games in order to have a low RoR (although those will be the biggest I`ll be playing, spreading somewhere in the area of 1-15), so I`m not sure if wonging would be worth it or not. I`ve noticed in CBJN that there are also some good red chip 8 deck games on the strip; should my spread be drastically cut down in comparison to what I`d be doing at the $25 min. games, or are those games not quite as closely watched? I know that was a lot of questions and that none can really be answered all that easily due to all the variables, but any advice or opinions on what I mentioned or anything else that may help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
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    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Welcome to Vegas and welcome to the forum.

    I like your plan a lot, SplitFaceDisaster. I play blackjack for a living now in my 14th year, 8th in Las Vegas. Technically, my partner and I do a few other AP things, but 75-80% of my income and EV (expected value) comes from good old fashion card counting.

    While I play professionally, or full-time, in recent years I have come to believe that card counting works best as a supplemental income, or part-time gig. Really works great for someone retire with other income....maybe that is your situation??

    Anyway, the advantage of Vegas is "quantity rather than quality". There are much better games elsewhere, but Vegas has many, many games in close proximity, which makes it very unique. The short session, "hit and run" approach works well because of this.

    Here's the way it works: You develop a rotation of "playable" games. Although you will find a few good games, most will be very mediocre compared to better games in other areas, but beatable. Now here is where your thinking is a little off. Even with a couple dozen or as many as 30 payable games, and hitting each only once a week or so, it won't take long until you are seeing the same dealers and pit folks. They will recognize your face. The days of trying to "trick" pit/surveillance or fly under the radar are kind of gone. You need to replace that "trick em" or "fly under the radar" mentality with a mentality of finding a level where you are not a threat. I see the same pit faces and I am sure they have a pretty good idea what I am up to, but playing short sessions I am not a threat. They can look the other way and know I will be out of there hair shortly, without them having to do anything or answer for anything.

    A few tips to achieve longevity: You need to identify and play within tolerance or comfort levels. These levels differ by casino, day of week, shift, and even pit people. It's kind of a trial and error thing, but it doesn't take long to pick up heat and figure out what is tolerated and when you have crossed over the line to what isn't.

    Basically you want to avoid registering really big win, that the pit folks might have to answer for. The short session, hit and run style plays right into that. Short sessions equals smaller wins....generally. When playing shoe games it is best to exit at the shuffle after a positive count in which you placed your top bet. In other words, exit after showing your spread. Retreating back to a smaller bet for the next shoe is a huge tell and you avoid that by exiting after showing your spread. This goes along way towards longevity.

    Play shoe games as you plan to do. The better double deck games are closely hawked. As a general rule, I refer to Vegas double deck games as "counter traps". Often times you can spread like hell at a decent, mediocre shoe game, at the same casino that you would be immediately backed off at the double deck game at the next table. Strange...but true.

    And finally, the level that you mentioned is basically the level I play. I refer to it as mid level, green to mid black. $25 tables, spreading to $400 or so. I have the bankroll to play higher stakes but this level is well tolerated (generally) when playing short sessions. There are certain threshold points, $500 being the first that automatically draw more attention, so maxing out below that, works real well longevity-wise.

    Hope this helps. Good luck.
     
  3. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Location:
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    In re-reading your post, it looks like I mis-interpreted the your intended level of play. Looks like maybe you intend red chip level as the reference to $25 tables was in wonging. There are still some decent playable $10 and even $5 tables throughout Vegas, although you will have a smaller rotation and frequent them a bit more, so it is imperative to keep sessions relatively short.

    My brother now in his third year of blackjack play for a living, started 2 years ago playing $10 games. He has since moved up in stakes, but his first year he played 30-40 hours a week playing $10 games. You will need to focus more on off strip properties, downtown and the local type properties, spread throughout Vegas.
     
  4. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    KewlJ, thanks a ton for all the insight. You gave me a lot of gold in your replies so I owe you one! Just to clarify a few of the details you were wondering about, I`m not retired. I`m farily young, but not so young that I`ll stand out at the tables at all though thankfully. I know that`s somewhat of another counter tell as you mentioned in referring to bet spreading. As far as what I was talking about with the red chip/5-15 min. 8 deck tables, I didn`t explain that very well. I was just thinking of adding them to my playing schedule in addition to the 25 min. tables to have more places to spread my action around to. You pretty much answered my question in regards to that already though, when you were talking about each casino`s comfort levels. I`ll just have to feel out those tables depending on all the factors you mentioned and tread lightly until I have a good read of what they`ll tolerate. I`ve heard about the double deck games being ridiculous as you said, so I`ll definitely be staying away from those. Again, I really appreciate your well-thought out response; I hope you run well at the tables!
     
  5. bjarg

    bjarg Member Lineage to Founders

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    You are welcome :)
     
  6. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    Yeah bjarg, thank you also for introducing me to this forum; I wouldn`t have gotten this info. if it weren`t for you. I owe you one as well!
     
  7. bjarg

    bjarg Member Lineage to Founders

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    I just saw you posted on BJTF.
    Dont ask for advice over there.
    Although there are a few serious players that still participate, almost all regular posters over there know very little about making a living from casino play.
    They are all minor stakes red chippers that probably get only a couple of hours in table time a year (if any), but they will spit out advice as if they were the reincarnation of Ken Uston.
    If you are new to the game you really dont want to listen to anything they have to say over there.
    Stick with KJ here or GC.
    Good luck!
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017

  8. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Thank you for the kind words, Bjarg.

    When I saw he had poste at Blackjack the voodoo forum, I thought the same thing. He is going to get all kinds of bad advise from mostly recreational, low limit players (not that there is anything wrong recreational or low limit players). Problem is they pose a experts, when they are far from it. Also, most of the "posers" likely to respond don't know squat about Vegas....although I am sure that won't stop them.

    And SplitFaceDisaster, if you are fortunate enough to be communicating privately with Bjarg, you have already hit the jackpot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2017
  9. bjarg

    bjarg Member Lineage to Founders

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    We are not comunicating privately.
    He posted this same post in green chip and I suggested that he should post the same here :)
     
  10. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    Yeah, I`ve lurked on that forum every once in a while ever since I got Casino Verite because I set up the widget to show new posts and some of the titles would catch my eye. Gotcha, I`ll stick with BJ21 and here then. Thanks again!
     
  11. KewlJ

    KewlJ Active Member

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    Well he has "access" to you, a very knowledgeable, professional blackjack AP. Can't go wrong with that. :cool:

    Just curious...was the GC crowd not helpful to him? o_O
     
  12. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    bjarg was only one of two people that responded on the GC forum, but the post hasn`t been up there long at all. It`s only been up for about a day.
     
  13. videopoker1

    videopoker1 New Member

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    Occupation:
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    I am looking for a home to play basic strategy blackjack and bet small to learn to play in a casino, no counting just basic. I live here in Vegas. I have played basic strategy trainers for quite a while,Casino Vérité blackjack among others. I basically have the basics down cold. Thanks for advice. Any tips or help would be appreciated.
     
  14. AxelWolf

    AxelWolf Active Member

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    Just seen this thread.

    Is it just me or does SplitFaceDisaster remind everyone of Zenking?
     

  15. AxelWolf

    AxelWolf Active Member

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    What is your goal?

    NVM...

    Isn't that Norms software?

    Clever
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  16. videopoker1

    videopoker1 New Member

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    My goal is to find a casino were the advantage is not so great for the house. Like said I have practiced for awhile, but not with distractions. other people around. I was looking at going to the EL Cortez near downtown. They have a shoe and I figured the pace would be a little slower.

    What I'm trying to say is, I want to get a feel for the game of BJ before I learn to count. Thanks for your reply.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
  17. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    Videopoker1, my advice would be go for what`s going to be the cheapest practice. I would try to persuade you to wait until you can count first, but if you don`t want to, here`s what I would do. There are 3 casinos (maybe there are more, but these are the ones I know of) that have $1 BlackJack tables: Poker Palace, The Lucky Club, and Hooters. Although the third one will likely be the most enticing if you`re a male, it`s a 6:5 game, so it`s the worst of the 3 in terms of a good game. I haven`t been to any of them, so I can`t speak to any of this personally, it`s just what I`ve heard about. Good luck in your learning; if you have Casino Verite that`s a step in the right direction.

    AxelWolf, I just became a BJ The Forum member and a Green Chip forum member with the same name as I have here. I`ve never posted under the name Zenking. I don`t think that`s what you were alluding to by mentioning that we sound the same, but figured I`d clarify if that happened to be what you meant.
     
  18. Antony

    Antony New Member

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    I never played like this. I love online poker=)
     
  19. Neal Pace

    Neal Pace Member

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    Good luck in LV, I'm kind of jealous. Kew has absolutely nailed it for you.

    Wish I was gambling back in Vegas, currently playing online in a very grey UK.
     
  20. SplitFaceDisaster

    SplitFaceDisaster New Member

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    Thanks for the good luck wishes man. If you get tired of the grey, there`s not much of that here so come visit!
     

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