Casino Scalp the player - Why you should never play in an Indian Casino

How my gambling journey began:


It was August 2011 when I attended a convention in Las Vegas where I got my first taste of gambling. I was fortunate to be with a few savvy gamblers who knew what games to play and how to play them. Winning was easy for them, and I was intrigued.


It was not till November 2011 when I took my first trip to the nearest Indian Casino. The casino reminded me of Las Vegas with the lights and the noise, though with a modest Indian theme running though-out the casino. On the surface the games all looked the same and they had all the ones I liked, especially craps. As I walked around, the place seemed busy though there was something missing that at the time I could not put my finger on.


The year of 2012 was my first year, my learning year. I knew I wanted to be an Advantage Player, that being someone who has the edge over the casino. So I bought used books on gambling on Blackjack, Video poker, and books on Dice Control for craps. I knew it would take time and practice to perfect my skills, so I figured weekly trips to the Indian casino would be in order where I can make money and increase my bankroll for a larger Las Vegas trip.


My second year, 2013, my dreams of having a large bankroll for Vegas was not happening and actually I was down approximately $1,500 . First, there is no Advantage Play for Blackjack at any Indian Casino I visited. The cut card to where the dealer shuffles the deck is put too deep in the shoe so that any card counting is useless, and the house edge of 0.8 will grind down a player over time. As for comps goes, the Indian casinos give very little for players that stick to low house edge games. So, I put my focus on craps given that the casino cannot downgrade the payouts or alter the game – so I thought.


My third year, 2014, I focused on my Craps playing skills. I got the book ‘The Dice Doctor’ written by Sam Grafstein that totally changed how I played craps. I also got a DVD from Axis Power Craps and Golden Touch Craps that displayed the finer points of Dice Influence. The concept of Dice Influence, also known as Dice Control, is that you can throw the dice in a systematic method to where the dice are traversing in an ‘on-axis’ throw to where the result is de-randomized and the player is gaining the edge over the casino. The book by Sam Grafstein teaches a very powerful Progressive Craps method of play and money management that is simply eloquent. With the above information mastered, I was able to slowly win back my previous years losses, though it was with a lot of painful hours at the Craps table playing very carefully and using every ounce of skill I had to grind out any win, and combined with a Las Vegas trip I was able to wipe out all of my credit card debt with my winnings. This was also the year of the biggest revelation about the Indian casino and the games they host. I will get to that shortly, however I want to talk about my Vegas trip first


In April 2014 I spent 10 days in Las Vegas staying in a condo at the Wyndham Grand Desert with a group I was with for the National Association of Broadcasters convention, one of the largest conventions in Las Vegas. When I was not at the convention hall, I spent my time visiting the casinos playing craps.


Now something happened that is worth talking about. Remember, my first exposure to gambling was in 2012 in Las Vegas with a group of friends where winning was easy. That easy win eluded me playing in the North West Indian Casinos and I assumed it was my poor gambling skill or that I was not focused enough or that I just had terribly bad luck.


My first few days in Las Vegas I visited many of the casinos on the Strip, playing craps and it was like I had lightning in a bottle, I was winning! I played Progressive Craps as per ‘The Dice Doctor’ and tossed the dice ‘on-axis’ like how I did in the North West Indian Casinos. Sure I lost a few sessions in Las Vegas, but not like the severe losses I had in the Indian Casinos, and I won far more sessions with far greater wins in Las Vegas where wins in the Indian Casinos are few and often not much greater than what was lost in prior sessions.


I really felt like I had Vegas by the tail. I had a solid edge here in Las Vegas with the same skills that I barely was able to grind out a few weak wins in the Indian casinos.


Craps is not the only game I play, I am also a Video Poker expert. The Video Poker in the Indian Casinos is very degraded with poor pay tables and only paying 4 to 1 on points. Video poker is far better than the slots, it is still a losing bet with no possibility of Advantage play. I mostly just ran though the free play I got from the mailers though the Indian casino video poker machines and most of the time would get 90% of the free play back in wins. Only later would I learn the dirty secrets about Indian casino Video Poker machines and why I will never play at an Indian Casino again.


My 2014 Las Vegas trip left me wondering why I lose in the Indian Casinos. And, as to what was missing at the Indian Casino that Las Vegas has? It is the winners. When I got back home, I went back to the Indian Casinos and started to survey the other players…where they winning, or losing as I was losing there too? I had built up enough trust with the regulars and been around long enough to be accepted as a regular and trusted by the players. What I learned was that wins for everyone was far and few between. The slots are very tight, degraded Video Poker Pay tables, and the comps very skimpy. Most players are locals who come for the cheap buffets or are there to socializing with friends, and others come because of the free busses the casino provided to the outlying communities with not much to do on a weekend night. Many elderly who use to go to Las Vegas or Reno ended up at the Indian Casinos because the travel to the once favorite playgrounds is not possible due to medical ailments.


I wanted to know why I lose at Craps here in the North West Indian casinos, but playing the same way in Las Vegas I was winning, why? Was it luck? Perhaps so, it is hard to say or know. I played Craps very hard for six days in Las Vegas I figured I would have a few lucky sessions, a few disasters too. However, only later was I to learn that my Las Vegas experience was normal as to how I played and shoot, and the play at the Indian Casinos is abnormal. The answer came to me from a very experienced Craps player with unimpeachable credentials who said the most shocking thing to me.


“I have to talk to you outside the casino”, the guy who told me why I lose at the casino said to me. So we went outside and he said, “The dice are bad. This casino buys these cheap dice that are heavy unbalanced so you get the seven.” In short, the casino cheats buy using bias dice that cheats the player.


I listened to him, and he said he has traveled to every Indian casino in the North West as well as played in Las Vegas regally, and he found the same as I found – you can win in Las Vegas but here at the Indian casinos you consistently lose.


I did some research and found that others round the country also noticed and posting online that the Craps dice at the Indian casinos are bias to the seven, that they run cold. I asked a few pro gamblers about this and they said that there are Mexican and Chinese Craps dice that are made from inferior materials and poorly crafted so that they are not balanced and will ‘roll funny’.


So, play the “don’ts”, that is betting that the player will not make the point, commented one guy who thought it was unconceivable that a casino would use bias dice. However the problem with bias dice is that for the Don’ts player is that the seven comes easy on the come-out roll where you lose your don’ts bet and the 4 and 10 roll easy enough to where you get hurt on the odds of those bets. I have not seen a don’ts player do well with bias dice and most get lose just as bad as the do’s players do.


I spent the last part of 2014 investigating the issue with Indian casinos and Bias Dice and found that all of the North West Indian casinos employ degrees of bias dice and some have overly bouncy tables too that make the dice staying on the table difficult and frustrating for the players.


In my casual conversations with a casino employee, I was directly told that the Craps dealers know that the dice run cold, some Dice more so than others, and that the casino is well aware of this fact. Dealers are not happy with this because cold dice means few tips, if any at all.


My own tracking of hundreds of rolls of bias dice, what I now call “Indian Dice”, shows that they run 5 to 1 rolls to the seven, where normal dice run 6 to 1 to the seven. Also bias dice will hit the 4 and 10 more frequent than normal dice as well as the 2,3,11 and 12. To try and gain the advantage over bias dice is very difficult due to the short rolls and that it they will roll plenty of sevens on the come-out rolls, and hit the outsides more frequently that will knock out the don’ts players where they have to bet higher odds.


Casinos have what they call “The Hold” on every game where that they know theoretically how much money they will ‘hold’ of the players based on their wagers. Typically, Craps has a 14% hold, 12% if they offer bonus bets. Holds high in to the high 20’s or 30’s indicates bias dice. Recently, an anonymous casino employee at a mid-west Indian casino reported that the hold on the Craps tables is over 50%! This number seems to reflect the losses that the players here have reported to me when I surveyed Craps Play in the North West Indian casinos.


I like to revisit Video Poker in the Indian casinos. There is a dirty secret in that the Indian Casinos can change the programming of the Video Poker to withhold high winning hands, such as a Royal Flush. In an article it is eluded that the casinos can change the programming to withhold a win as to create a higher house hold, or lower return rate than what the pay tables indicate. In States and jurisdictions where there is no gaming commission or laws that govern the operation of gambling, it then is legal for the casino to create a deceptive game, where the payouts indicate a higher return rate than actuality.


Video Poker in Washington State is very deceptive in that it appears your skill drives the game, but in reality a central computer pre-determines if you are a winner or lose based on a “virtual lottery ticket” that you draw every time you push the Draw Button. Skill has nothing to do with Video poker winning in any of the Washington State Casinos and the return rate is far lower than they pay tables would indicate if it was a true Video Poker game.


The players clubs in Las Vegas is often another area that many players exploit for freebies and discounts. Many casino properties compete to have the best club and the best perks to attract the most players. In some cases a player may play a low return rate game for Player club points. And, In some cases achieving a particular players club level may bring discounts, room and food comps and other perks that are greater than the cost of the points to get to that players club level. Las Vegas players clubs tend to be worth it for the preferred players in what they can get. This is often not the case with the Indian casinos, where the comps are skimpy and costly if you play the low return rate games. This is another case of what works in Vegas does not work in the Indian casinos.


So, why then does the Indian casinos outright scalp the players? It is not like as if the Indian Tribes who were slaughtered in an over a century of persecution are profiting. From my reading of the Indian newspapers that I pick up on Tribal Reservations they are getting lower payouts from the casinos that may even on their own properties every year and needed services they provide are in jeopardy of collapsing. The local communities don’t win, the casino jobs are minimum wage paying jobs and they are all dead end jobs. The community towns see very little casino traffic since most visitors go to the casino, get drained, and then go home, so there are no winnings to spend locally at the shops. The winners are the nameless investors who sit behind the walls of the Hedge Fund groups who suck out every dollar the casino makes. My sources tell me that the largest hedge fund investors are the Chinese Communist Party.


The Indian casinos have no real competition. Most sit tens if not hundreds of miles from the next Indian casino, and some Indian casinos on reservation lands are quite the drive from the major highways.


In my opinion, Indian Casinos give the player the Vegas games and experience but not the Vegas wins, and takes no risk to itself by ensure they will win. There is absolutely no advantage play to be gained in the Indian casinos, and if they think you have an edge on them they can boot you out for no reason stated, and you have no rights or means to contest them.


If you are currently gambling in an Indian casino, I urge you to stop. Save your money for the trip to Las Vegas where you will find the gambling far better and the comps you get worth your time. The cost of travel to Las Vegas is cheap enough, and if you consider the losses you are experiencing at the Indian casino, you then know that the cost of travel is actually less than the expected Indian casino loses.

**updated note: Reports of 'Indian Dice' are now showing up in Las Vegas Casinos.

 

Mark V -

A most interesting and in-depth report of Indian casino conditions -

Probably, NOT only in the Northeast US -

But - conducive to the entire US -

However -

I tend to disagree with the synopsis you presented regarding the biased dice -

You stated that the dice can NOT be beat due to the bias of the 7 appearing -

And the propensity of the 4 and 10 also appearing when layed against by a dark sider -

You have remarkable insight on one hand to observe such occurrences -

However - you definitely lack the intuitiveness to capitalize on this situation -

I only had to read your trip report one time and it was readily apparent to me as how to turn this losing situation into a win-win event !

Think about what YOU stated above !

$...eE..$

 

$...eE..$

It is not as easy as you think it is, though yes there are ways to work such dice to your favor, but I have seen many guys get busted out trying. It is work and takes time to grind out wins with such dice in play, and the casino will swap out the dice on you too. This is a very common fact, that casinos that use the funny dice will swap them frequently to ensure their hold on the players. This hold is is known to be around 55% on average.

I have looked at these dice very carefully. On the six face there is a serial number like 5001 In the middle of one of the 0's there is what appears to have been some hole drilled and filled with a darker resin. Not all of the dice have this interesting alteration.

One casino I visited in Washington State the dice where the same color and same serial number but you can clearly see the pip sizes on two of the dice where slightly larger.

In the North West, there is no gaming commission. Indian casinos police themselves, and you know how well that works for police departments that police themselves.

But, don't listen to me. Find out for yourself. Perhaps you will have a big win, perhaps a big bust. Sure, I have seen big wins with the funny dice, but I have seen far more big losses than wins.

And get this!
There is nothing in writing or otherwise anywhere in the casino that states that the games are fair or in regulation to any standards what-so-ever. The player makes the assumption that the games are fair and in regulations as like in Nevada and dupe themselves that the casino is a fair competitor. Truth is the casino has no intent to fair at all, and the game are all for 'entertainment purposes only' and they are there to provide the 'gambling experience' without the risk to themselves, and with all the intent to make a profit on entertaining you. And, there are tricks the Indian casino can pull to get you out of the casino that are unfair and you have no means to contest them if you start to win or otherwise figure out a few things.

Their favorite trick is to say your drunk and ask you to leave. They tried this once an Asian Indian guy who has never drank in his life who is a good craps player. The next one is to claim you are using an illegal device (like having a cell phone) and kick you out because you where acting suspiciously (such as looking at the time on your cell phone). And, lastly there is the 'no reason at all kick out', and that happened to a few guys who I regularly play craps with. They get told to leave and that a letter will be sent to them. the letter states that their play is being analyzed but they are barred from the casino for 6 months. Six months goes buy and not a word, they show up and nothing is saying anything to them, no body will tell them why they got kicked out for 6 months. And, if they really want you gone for good, they just claim you stole money from another player, file a complaint with the county and read you the trespassing notice. Of course they never file any proof, video or testimony and the case is dismissed...but you are still barred for life from entering the casino. If you want to contest them...well then it is tribal court and guess who wins.

 

Mark V -

According to recorded history -

The white man defeated the American Indian ! -

Well -

According to modern history -

The ' redskins ' are not only ' getting even ' -

They are getting " one up " !

" Paybacks are a .............." ! -

$...eE..$

 

If there is any kind of physical bias in any gambling device that can well be spotted too, it can be exploited by players to gain. Unbiased and fair randomness is a key of winning for casinos with utmost safety. They do not need to cheat you to earn from you. Rather, you will help them earn.