1. Welcome to the #1 Gambling Community with the best minds across the entire gambling spectrum. REGISTER NOW!
  2. Join our $5,000 Cash Giveaway!

    Win Cash by Posting and Inviting New Members!
  3. Have a gambling question?

    Post it here and our gambling experts will answer it!
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Discussions in this section are assumed to be EV- as they are outside of the Advantage Play section. For EV+ discussions, please visit the Advantage Play sub-forum.
    Dismiss Notice

Baccarat The Importance of our Player's Edges

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by gr8player, Sep 14, 2021.

  1. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    As those of you that know me from my postings in various Bac forums over the years, I am a very patient and disciplined player. I have a plan, and, win or lose, I remain steadfast in the utilization of that plan.

    And that requires a strict adherence of my Player's Edges, as follows:

    1.) We can place a bet whenever we see fit to do so; or, just as importantly, "no-bet" as we see fit.

    2.) We can adjust the size of our wager as we see fit to do so; either raise or reduce as we see fit.

    3.) We can choose the exact time to either begin and/or terminate any session as we see fit to do so.

    These, among others deemed much more subjective, are all a part of our Player's Edges; and I am of the firm opinion that without them our chances of any sort of long-term success at this game would amount to nothing more than a lesson in futility.

    I began this thread with a purpose, as follows:

    As we are all much too well aware of in these trying times, the casinos had closed for a long time due to the corona virus; and, obviously, rightfully so.

    It had been over a year before I ventured back into the casino (reference my "Finally...." thread), and the experience just wasn't the same; it just didn't live up to the standard that I've grown accustomed to over all the many years of my Bac experiences.

    But, even with that said, I surely didn't expect it to be the same, and so any disappointment on my part was rather mitigated. In other words, I chose the accept the rather unique circumstances at the time.

    But, overall, it wasn't an experience that I'd rush back into anytime soon. And I didn't. Until last week.

    I decided that I'd give it another go, figuring that now it's been a rather long time that the casino had been re-opened, and I figured that the tables just might've returned to much more "normalcy".

    Well, that was a wrong assumption on my part. The Baccarat pit was rather sparsely populated, and the tables that did have players had about half as normal....only a couple or three players at each, with many others vacant altogether.

    Well, I certainly didn't drive up there those couple of hours just to stand around, and so I bought in at one of the open tables that had two other player already there.

    I bought in for my usual....no need to mention any amounts....suffice to say, I had more money (chips) in front of me than the other two players combined. And, as it turned out, that was a mistake.

    Why was it a mistake? Because the other players, for some reason or another, were forever (or it sure seemed like forever) waiting for me to place my bet before they would place theirs.

    Very, very frustrating. Why? Because I don't bet every hand. And I certainly don't place a bet when I'm not "triggered" to do so. (Sidenote: I refer you to my Player's Edge number one above.) And so a "standoff" ensued; it almost became a game of "chicken" as opposed to Baccarat.

    The moral of the story: My Player's Edges, and the strict adherence to them, trumps any desire to sit at the table and, well, just "gamble" recklessly. Ain't gonna happen....so I promptly colored up and left.

    Bottom line: I'll return to the casino when I am able, freely and comfortably, to play MY game. And not a minute before.

    Take care and stay well, all.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  2. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Likes:
    17
    Location:
    NYC
    Mohegan is a dark, dreary, lifeless dive. You could have tried their hand shuffled, hand dealt Stadium game, and avoided the standoffs. The much better Foxwoods is a short drive away.
     
    Junket King likes this.
  3. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    Dark and dreary?...Agreed. Lifeless?...Not really, at least not during more "normal" circumstances.

    Foxwoods? Never been there. I've been meaning to give it a go...I'll check it out sometime based upon your recommendation; thanks, Chip.

    As to the Stadium game...that's where I eventually went after I'd walked around a while. I played almost 2 full shoes, and I wound up losing $800 there.

    I didn't like the Stadium game experience. It still felt to me as if I were playing a "machine". I suppose after all these years of playing Bac at the tables, I'm wired that way now...I like the feel of the chips, somehow I feel in more control with them, and, frankly, I'm not in love with the idea of the casino knowing my every move, Baccarat-wise, when I'm playing.

    As to the $800 loss...no biggie. In fact, I prefer to call it a "loan" to the casino, because I'll recoup that money, either next session or the one after that. I play a "long-term" game and that serves me well to take the pressure off of attempting to win each and every session. That $800? It's going nowhere but back into my pocket sooner rather than later.

    Assuming, of course, the casinos can get their Bac action back to normal participation...until then, I'll bide my time.

    Take care and stay well, all.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  4. Bac2Bac

    Bac2Bac New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes:
    3
    Location:
    NYC
    Mohegan Sun has always been my favorite casino and has never seemed dark and dreary to me. Maybe because I’ve only been there on the weekends when it’s full of life. “Suum cuique pulchum est” (to each, his own is beautiful). It’s a bit of a ride from NYC and now I prefer to go to Wind Creek in Bethlehem, PA. Cuts at least an hour off the drive. Friendly staff , great comp , plenty of Baccarat tables and live deal stadium play. Hopefully, things get back to normal and in the meantime I’m happy I found this new place that fulfills my Bac play… stay safe
     
  5. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Likes:
    1,910
    Occupation:
    Professional Guesser
    Location:
    Tristan da Cunha
    Been in that situation many times (no other players at the table and a player that doesn't bet every hand). Had my fair share of stand off's, these tend to set a negative vibe, bailed on a few occasions.

    Racked my brain for a flat bet minimum table option option to keep the game going, banker only, DBL, FLD, OLD, Tie only for £2 for joints that allow it. Not a bad option if you ever find yourself at a table solo, you totally control the pace of the game, lose a few table minimum units end of shoe no biggie, bet your usual amount when your trigger presents itself.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  6. soxfan

    soxfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2016
    Likes:
    566
    Location:
    FrozenTundra
    Bwwwwwwwaaaaahhhhhhhhh, the gr8888888888888one makin the scene outta the blues. The cats at my local are coconut and require vaccine proofs, nons-stop mask wearings and they erect the plexi-glass barrier between seat at the baccarats table. Some joint in the Las Vegas pretty much offer the unlimited free hand at the table and I wish all joint would do that, hey hey.
     
  7. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    Soxster, my man, if only ALL casinos would offer the "free" hands; what a wonderful Bac world it would be.

    Johno, unfortunately the casinos and the Bac tables that I prefer to play at have bet minimums that simply don't make it very practical for me to bet simply to "keep the shoe moving". And that's not the only drawback to betting every hand. As you know, I play a long-term, "variance"-based game, and I simply don't want to get into the unenviable position where I'm hitting those "minimum" bets at a high rate and thereby compromising my strike rate on my much more pertinent "triggered", or "main", bets.

    Take care and stay well, all.
     

  8. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Likes:
    17
    Location:
    NYC
    I visited MS three months ago on a weekend, and the place was packed both days. The Bac tables were very busy. Same for FW. Perhaps you were there on a weekday.
     
  9. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Likes:
    1,910
    Occupation:
    Professional Guesser
    Location:
    Tristan da Cunha
    I keep everything separate, a separate stack of chips, it's like two players at the table (but only me), one hand simply flat betting on whatever (usually I use STAR so as not to drop into a hole), when a trigger presents it-self the other hand pauses, I consider how much to bet, etc etc.

    Lots of fun, bit like a split personality, I even tell the dealers in some places what I'm doing. And if any of them think I'm nuts, I tell them the Fibonacci sequence up to the 9th step, that usually impresses them, especially any Italian EU dealers :D
     
  10. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    Chip, I don't go on weekends; it was a Tuesday.

    Johno, I get it. And, frankly, I couldn't care less what the dealers think; I'm sure you concur. I do like the use of the rather mild Star for your minimum bets; that said, I'd still much prefer to be in the company of players that actually play more hands....I must say, generally, in normal times, there's really no problem; most players like to bet as often as possible.
     
  11. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Likes:
    17
    Location:
    NYC
    I enjoy PARX in PA. Thirty-five miles closer to NYC, but $43 more in tolls than the CT. casinos.
     
  12. Bac2Bac

    Bac2Bac New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Likes:
    3
    Location:
    NYC
    Thanks Chip Magnet.
    I’ll have to give it a try. I see the $43 in tolls as but another expense for living large in the big city.
     
  13. porky

    porky Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2019
    Likes:
    40
    Location:
    parts unknown
    1. Depends on where you play. There are casinos that will sweat you if you sit out more than 3 hands.
    2. Raise and reduce as you see fit. Dependent on bank roll and the table minimums. A lot of casinos have over raised their minimums.
    3. Terminate yes. Play not always. If I can't get a seat at decent minimum I'm gone.
    So I think with all due respect that a player has to be flexible in what they consider their edges.
     
  14. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Likes:
    1,910
    Occupation:
    Professional Guesser
    Location:
    Tristan da Cunha
    Exactly, some casinos will do this prior to CoVid, "are you having a bet sir". I've a feeling it will be worst now if they are limiting players at the table (why is this guy sitting at the table and we are denying others players, yet he's hardly betting, they might not tolerate that for very long, especially if you do well on a consistent basis).
     

  15. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    It's funny that you bring this up, Johno.

    I can't count how many times that I've been denied a seat at a Bac table while there's a player with 3 green chips at a $25 minimum table who's doing nothing more than taking up space. In fact, as I mention "taking up space"; very often, in these circumstances, that same baloney player is actually biding his time waiting for his friend to come and take his seat.

    Now, the floor personnel knew darn well what I was buying in for, knew darn well that I was a regular, and knew darn well that I was a bettor. But they just let this crap go on time after time.

    I will never forget, years ago when I was playing Bac with a "playing partner", we were awaiting a couple of seats at Bally's casino in AC, and, sure enough, there's a "ploppie" sitting there with just a few chips and not betting at all. I call over the floor person, made him aware of the situation, and did nothing more than make a dumb face ad shrug his shoulders. Even worse, he knew darn well that between my partner and I he was denying a $12,000 buy-in from black-chip players....and it appeared to me and my partner that he simply couldn't care less.

    Needless, we walked. And we told him we were gonna walk. Again, just that same dumb look on his face along with his slumping shoulders. We went straight to Trump Plaza and played there, even though we were staying in Bally's hotel. I was pissed, and told my Bally's host about it; in the end, Bally's become just a "secondary" place for us to play, preferring casinos that knew how to treat their better customers.

    If I ran Bally's, I'd have fired that floor person immediately. I was a always in management in my sales career; mistakes by my personnel I could handle and I could correct....but sheer stupidity or laziness were things that I'd never tolerate. Use your head, man, and make a decision. Hopefully, it's a calculated and correct one.

    Unfortunately, we simply don't find very much of that in casinos.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  16. Junket King

    Junket King Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Likes:
    1,910
    Occupation:
    Professional Guesser
    Location:
    Tristan da Cunha
    That's a tough one, you can't really expect them to ask a player with chips in front of him to vacate the seat. I've seen players that have lost thousands and nothing left, they sit at the table in some kinda daze watching the next shoe.

    I've mentioned to a pitt boss, he isn't playing, they said to me, "I can't ask him to get up as he's just dropped a fair bit of money". Usually when a game ends, many players leave to find another table, or if you're known, and known to buyin for a decent amount, they may offer to open another table for you, which defeats the purpose.

    I've always taken the approach when it's hard to get a spot (they might squeeze me on the corner, sharing a box until somebody loses and a spot becomes available), don't be in a rush, such as speeding to a casino, like some ploppie gambler in need of their fix, remain calm, in control, be and act professional, disciplined as you would during a shoe and patiently wait.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  17. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    Even tougher back in the days when I had a "playing partner", as we'd need two seats at the same table in order to play. But, generally speaking, we managed....it all worked out well.

    On the subject of my "playing partner", it might serve some forum members well if I were to expound on that a bit:

    I didn't have a playing partner for anything financially-speaking. In other words, we weren't partners financially; I bought in and played with my own money, and my partner bought in and played with his.

    But I made ALL the betting decisions. My partner, who, by the way, was either a relative or a close friend, merely made all the exact same moves that I made at the Bac tables; either win or lose, we were in it together.

    Now, why the need for a "playing partner"?: That answer requires a little background:

    When I first started out playing Baccarat, I studied a bit, tested a bit, and thought I had it all figured out rather well. And so, I was off to the casinos, about to make my fortune. Yeah, that didn't work out as well as I had planned...it turned out that I had more money than I had brains.

    But I've always been a meticulous record-keeper, and so I kept all my scorecards and went back to the drawing board, trying to figure out where I had gone wrong. I mean, I had some good habits at the tables, but I was missing something.

    Well, it turned out that my biggest problem was I needed more Patience and I needed more Discipline. Sure, I tweaked my bet selection process and my money-management, but, honestly fellas, without a correct and stable Mindset, there's simply no bet selection and/or money management that's gonna get you over the finish line in the long term.

    So, now I'm thinking to myself...how about inviting someone to join me at the tables...someone near and dear to me...someone I cared about. Why? Because I knew darn well that I'd look to protect their money even more than I would mine. My success would become even more imperative if I were totally responsible for my partner's money as well.

    And so it began. And both I and my partners....I say "partners" because at different times, over the years, there were 4 different people....were pleased with our results; win or lose, it really worked out very well.

    That all said, I haven't had a playing partner for years. I see no need now, as my Patience and Discipline are, by now, ingrained in me. But, IMHO, that was at least partly due to my having another person to look out for at the tables when I played. That responsibility served the both of us well.

    Take take and stay well, all.
     
  18. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2019
    Likes:
    17
    Location:
    NYC
    Intended to go to FW on Saturday, but ended up at RW in Queens, where I had some good sessions earlier this year. Parking in the garage remains free for now. The Hyatt Regency is near completion, and the casino has changed for the better. They offer about 1,400 Bac seats with minimums ranging from $5 to $50. All computerized games. The no commission Dynasty game, pushes on a three card 7, for a HE of 1.02 on Banker, but I strictly play the Interblock Organics. All seats are partitioned on the Interblocks.

    Did okay betting mostly Banker, but would have net 23, just betting Banker every hand.

    BBBBPPBBBPBBPBPPBBBBBPBBPPBPPBBBBBPBPBBPBPBBPPBPPPBBBBPPBBPBBPPPBBBBBPPPBPBPPBPBPPBBPPPPBPBBPPPBPPBPBPBPBBBPBPBBPBBBBBPPBBBPBPPBBPBPBPPBBPPBPBPPBBPPBPBPPBPBBBBPBBBBP

    BPBBPBPBBPPPBBBPBPPPPBBBBPPBBBBPBBBBBPBBPPBPBBPBPBPBPBBPPPBPBPBPPPBBBPPPPPBPBPBPBPBBBPBPPBBBBPBBBPBPPBPPBPBBBBBPPPPPBBPPPBPPPPPPBBBPBBBPBBPBPPPPBPPBPBBBPBPBBPBBBBPPBPPPPBPBPBBBBBBBPPBBBPBPBBBBBBPBPPBBPBPBPPPBPPPPBPBBPBBBPBPPBBPPPBBP

    BPPBBPPBPBBPPBBPPPBPBPBBBPBBPPPPPBBPPBPBBBBBBBBPBPBPBBPPBPPPPBBPBPPPBPPPPBPBBBBPPPBPBBBPBBBPBPPBPBPBPPBPPPBBBBBBBBPBPPBPPPPBBBPPPPBBPBPPPPPPBPPPBBBBBBPPPBPBBPBBPBBBPPBBPPBBBBPPBPBPBBPPBPPPPBBBBBBPBBBBPPPPBBP
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021 at 8:01 PM
    soxfan and fathead like this.
  19. gr8player

    gr8player Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Likes:
    91
    Location:
    N.Y.C.
    Glad to hear of your winnings, Chip....keep it up.

    While I live relatively close to RW, I just can't get my head around the fact that they are all "computerized games". That, to me, sounds alot like playing Bac on an internet (on-line) casino, and that, too, is a non-starter for me.

    This game has enough challenges attached to it without having to worry about the actual validity of the results, and once the word "computerized" is involved, I'm simply not confident enough to invest my money.

    I've tried to find out more information on the "Interblock" machines as well, but, other than their own web-site, I haven't seen anything to ease my concerns.

    Again, happy to hear of your success Chip.

    Take care and stay well, all.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  20. stephen

    stephen Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2017
    Likes:
    37
    Location:
    USA
    I presume you do not have any objection to Baccarat live by Evolution gaming, where there is a live dealer. This is available in NJ. You have to be in NJ jurisdictional area to play the game and have an account with the Casino that offers the game in NJ. In my State, it is available and I can play from the comfort of my home 24/7. I like it and I play the game every day. I am not a computer wiz to know whether the game is rigged or not.
     
    Junket King likes this.

Share This Page