Craps The Mob Boys' method.

There is a story that I heard on the Craps table that during the Mob days in Vegas, this method was used extensively.
Wait for come out roll to be 4 or 10 either one.
If 4 is the point on the come out, lay it for $1200 then $500 across which is $100 on 5,6,8,9 and 10.
One hit and everything thing is down.
Seven out and the lay is down too.
If the roll is 2,3,11,12, everything is down also.
Claimed to be a winner.
What do you think?

 

The Math side of things for this approach. 4 or 10 alone is 3 out of 36 for each. For it to happen back to back is 3/36 X 3/36 which is 1 in 144.
But you let the first 4 or 10 to happen AFTER waiting for it and NOT the very roll you walked up to the table making the 1st outcome of 4 or 10 NO VALUE in probability. So only 3/36 or 1 in 12 IS THE probability that you will lose your bet. 11/12 of the times you will almost break even or win. Roughly 1 worst loss would required 9 average wins.

 

I think ….

The risk is low …only 3 numbers out of 36 combinations will create a loss of 1200 dollars if one of the 3 combinations repeats on the next roll. (For the number 10 rolled (4/6 6/4 5/5 ) or the number 4 (1/3 3/1 2/2 )

However, looking at it from that one loss …. recovery would take from 9 to 12 winning sessions.

This being the case …. time-wise the number 4 or 10 come-out roll could take many hours to show 9 to 12 times.

Low Risk … YES

Possibilities... GOOD

My position … The MOB Boys' method is “NOT MY CUP of TEA.” There are days where you could make a fortune and I’ve seen days where you would lose a fortune.

Nowadays I see players laying the 4 or 10 to cover a DON’T PASS bet which provides more action in getting a DON’T bet established. Once the number is established …. the lay bet comes down and they now become a favorite to win. Many players will hedge with place/buy bets similar to the MOB Boys"method. I’ve seen where Don’t odds are used for bigger action.

To me, it’s all a crapshoot. Win some… Lose some.

Thanks for sharing … The MOB Boys' Method.

 

Yes good write up. Hopefully it will be useful to the readers, I found it fascinating but I would not use it. But I’m sure it will suit some readers and I wish them great happiness in their pursuit of recreational fun and frivolity . Nice.
Probably easy to implement on the new crap machines you posted about on another thread craps. I assume it would have an automatic re bet last layout button ? Nice.
Cheers

 

Right on. Yeah,It's quite a hassle to set up the bets and the dealers hated it. Doing this on the new live machine Craps game is a breeze where you can just OFF your bets till you On them again. Similarly with the live Roulette game where you can clock the dealer and ON half side of the wheel. No guarantee but at least you get to feel you have control over your destiny.

 

The best way to make regular profits at the dices table is the true and try grind the don'ts style. Just another variation of anti-streaks style, hey hey.

 

Do you know the Pass Line bet has a better odds than the Don't Pass Line?
The reason being the Come Out Roll on 7 and 11 for the P and the Bar on 12 for DP.

 

Yes I think it would, I remember here the number of times a member of the dealer didn’t place bets because you upset him or annoyed him or he was pandering to another punter or just being an a hole in general. The number of players that walk away and don’t return is amazing all due to some dealer being a bitch. The casino here used to run 2 tables from midday to 3-4 am Thursday to Sunday but for some reason attendance dropped off , now it’s only 1 table mostly Friday to Sunday.
Did you manage a photo of new table? Cheers

 

Thanks for posting I like this way of playing. What would be a good win/loss?

 

Judge,

It's a little over $500 in losses every 36 bets.

-3600 for rolling the 4 three times
+560 for rolling the 5 four times
+560 for rolling the 6 five times
+560 for rolling the 8 five times
+560 for rolling the 9 four times
+585 for rolling the 10 three times
and now the 7
+3420 for rolling the 7 six times winning 570 for the 1200 lay bet
-2952 for rolling the 7 six times and losing 492 across

It is a terrible way of playing. Hedge bets only cause more losses. Pick one bet, wrap an MM around it. Why do you want to fight against 6 house edges at once?

Craps,

I think you should change your name. THE PASS LINE BET DOES NOT HAVE BETTER ODDS THAN THE DON'T PASS LINE. The natural winners of 11 and 7 on the come out vs a push on a natural loser come out 12 have nothing to do with it.

Let me put this in perspective for you. Imagine my name was Baccarat, and I said Player was the best bet because the drawing rules favor Player and there is no commission on a Player win.

 

Baccaratic, Thanks for your time. I think I'll try picking one bet and sticking to it. Any suggestions? Thanks again.

 

Judge,

The math of the game indicates the Don't Pass as the best bet placement. I do not disagree. Plethora of MM's you can utilize on the Don'ts. If you have the time and patience, I suggest a single bet on the Don't Pass against every shooter with the MM of your choice. This should generate more comps than your actions justifies. Slow down the deterioration of your BR, increase your time and experience at the tables. And maybe, reveal itself to you an area of vulnerability you can attack. If not, it will cost you the least searching for it.

Considering the bets mentioned in the Boss Method, the Lay 4 or 10 appears to be popular. Its House Edge at 2.4 is greater than Placing the 6 or 8 at 1.5. The fact that it wins twice for every loss is the lure. It's tempting, and you can have some fun with it at low dollar amounts if you have medium size capital. The HE at 2.4 is calculated paying commission after a win if I recall correctly, the HE will increase slightly if you have to pay commission up front.

In the above example laying the 4 or 10 for 1200 wins 600 less 30 in commission, 570. Paying the commission up front has you laying 1230 to win the full 600. Still 570 profit, however you can increase losses another 90 dollars per 36 rolls, as those three losses will be for 3690 instead of 3600.
If you limit yourself to 1 dollar in commission, you can open with a $40 lay to win $20. After an (un)acceptable number of losses you can increase your bet to 50, 60,70 or even a 78 dollar lay to win 39. You might get some cross looks running it right up to the threshold, but I've never experienced any trouble with a 70 dollar lay bet. Keep it with even amounts, make it easy on the dealer.

Still no area here of positive expectation, decreasing the HE still maintains the existence of an HE. But you have a little room here to manipulate things. Once you make an 80+ dollar lay and creep into $2 commissions and up, the advantage of advancing upon the threshold of the next 20 dollar profit margin, incurring another $1 commission, begins to diminish.

Again, I would advise choosing a precise time to make a single bet. For example, wait until someone throws a 4 or 10 and then lay it. If you lose, wait, do not chase. I, personally don't like that approach. If I lay number, I lay it against every shooter, first time it hits, I'm off. I wait for the next shooter to not roll that number before the 7 out, and I will re lay that number for the next shooter, trying to anticipating a sleeper.

To wrap things up, I'll address the Place 6 or 8 which offer the lowest HE. The Place 5&9 and 4&10 both possess an edge greater than the Lay 4 or 10 at 4% and 6.6% respectively. Again, personally I like to wait until a 6 or 8 is thrown, then I place it, I rarely press it and regret it every time. If it loses, I Place it one more time for the next shooter, trying to anticipate an awakening. As for an MM approach, It loses 6 times and wins 5. I suggest building an MM that makes accommodations for the entirety of that series of events, as opposed to concentrating on single wins and losses.

Probably more than you were expecting, and I'm sure to have covered information you already knew. It was an attempt to be comprehensive, helpful, not the critical I gravitate towards.

Baccaritic

 

Baccaritic,

Thanks for explaining all the methods. I've always been a DP player with a 6&8 place bet when the shooter shows he/she can throw a lot of them.
What's your thoughts on betting DP after a PL bet wins or playing a PL bet after 2-3 DP wins?

 

A DP after a PL bet wins...

You are betting for the existence of a single Pass. One DP bet. It should make no difference mathematically, but I've always been leery of betting for single events. Baccarat experience has shown me both sides can continuously streak with adjacent streaks, offering few wins and many losses as that 2h continues to relentless fill up.
That being said, my thoughts would be to bet against anyone making two Passes consecutively. And limit yourself to one loss per shooter. If a natural Don't is thrown, and then 2 more passes, I'd sit it out until the next shooter.
The Don'ts are trickier, possessing positive expectation. I would bet against 3 DP wins one time. I tested a method a while back, and found myself surprised how many times I couldn't win going Follow on the Don'ts after 3 DP's.
It just seems so easy to pick up a natural pass line winner to interrupt a cold table that continues to have shooters that do not reconcile a Point.

DP with an occasional Place 6 or 8 is pretty much the smartest play imo. I don't really like hedges, but they are so attractive. I mean that Don't bet is already out there, survived the come out, guaranteed to win something... so hard to resist.

What do you do after a Place bet wins?
You ever take your Don't bet down?

Against my better judgement I'll make a Place bet 1 unit above the table minimum, and if it hits, I come down one unit. If it continues to hit, I get creative with pressing, though it rarely yields more profit. Seems like the 6 or 8 gets rolled 4,5 or 6 times pretty often, but not really. But one day........ I'll find a briefcase full of money in a blind spot in the parking lot and I won't have to suffer the consternation of whether I should Place that bet or not. '

Baccaritic

 

On the DP and placing the 6 and 8...If the 6 or 8 hits I just leave everything there. The only problem with the DP is getting thru the come out 7 and 11. Just part of the game.

Since I'm trying to make 1U per shooter if the 7 or 11 is the come out, If it does it again, I wait for the next shooter. Thanks again.

 

You're Welcome. Glad I could be a service.

Yes, the Come Out, the dreaded come out.

"..Leaving it all there.." The better play in my opinion.

Appears you don't need me to re affirm you have a pretty solid play.
Do you take your bet down after a natural 2 or 3?
Do you take your bet down after a natural 12?

Thanks,

Baccaritic

 

No I leave them up.

 

Same.
Though I struggle not to parlay a natural winner when I'm behind.

Recognizing you may well be versed in the game. I had no idea before, I've seen you post, really had no expectation you were really a judge. Should have picked up on the short concise posts with no wasted words.

".... one bet against every shooter..." You may recognize this from Dylanfreak ( pretty sure that's the name from Wizard of Vegas boards if memory serves) He testified to being ahead several hundred units. Though, that was not his intention. He was wasting time waiting for his wife to finish her slot tournaments.

Thanks,
Baccaritic

 

Yeah I spent 20 yrs writing and talking. When I retired I decided to try to make it easier. So I seldom write long emails or have long posst on social media. With that said I do like reading your comments on craps and baccarat. Good info. Unlike some of these blowhards who post just to be posting. Got any baccarat tips...lol.

 

First, thanks for the compliment. I assign it more weight coming from a judge, it means a lot to me. I appreciate it. It takes effort as you know to be clean, neat and stay on topic. I struggle with it.

Baccarat tips... sure I got some. What's on your mind? You can PM me, or start a thread or something so we aren't blowing this thread up off topic.

Baccaritic