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Craps Where I can find thousands of actual dice outcome data?

Discussion in 'Craps Forum' started by David Gregory, Jun 9, 2022.

  1. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    Do you by any chance know where I can find thousnds of actual dice outcome data? I looked but have not been succesful. I believe testing with actual outcomes is much better than a prng. Thanks
     
  2. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    There used to be data live roll data available from Zumma but it is hard to find these days.

    You can use random.org

    Screenshot_20220610-175422_Chrome.jpg

    That will give you a list like:
    2 4
    1 2
    6 5
    2 2
    1 1​
     
  3. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    Thanks, appreceiate it. I did find this which is quite interesting: https://easy.vegas/games/craps-generator#how Check it out, i would like to know what you think.
     
  4. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    The author knows nothing about random number generators. Recent browsers use xorshift128+ which is one the the newer kids on the block for random generators that gained popularity, although it is a very old approach, people should know better but new kids must repeat the errors of the past.

    The author at easy.vegas claims xorshift128+ is great when in fact it is terrible.

    The xorshift128+ RNG fails random statistical tests in under 3 seconds.

    Science papers are written about the structures and features in the output of xorshift128+:

    You can see the visible structures when the so called "random" numbers generated are plotted:
    images (6).jpeg
    images.png

    Does that look cube look like it is filled with uniform and random dots to you or do you see clustering and distinct geometrical bias? The entire cube should look like gas/fog/static and fill the entire cube.

    This is why I don't use pseudo random number generators and other people's shitty software for any testing.
     
  5. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    Alright, good. I'll find something else like you suggested. If I cannot get accurate testing done, I am wasteing my time. Spike said you can never get true results unless you test your strategy in actual play for real money. You would have to be out of your mind to TEST a strategy betting real money. I think probably the best way to test is on free, virtual bets, Eveloution games. Real dice, real rolls.
     
  6. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    The site you suggested, random.org also offers random dice rolls, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks again.
     
    Rond1nell1 likes this.
  7. fathead

    fathead Active Member

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    https://easy.vegas/games/craps-generator
     

  8. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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  9. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    Is there any way to set up random.org number generator to equal Roulette EC results on a single O wheel? Odd, Even plus O seems like the easiest one to accomplish.
     
  10. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    I figured out how to set up (random.org) number generator to equal a single zero roulette wheel for EC. You cannot do Red/Black unless you know what numbers are what colors. But Odd/Even, Lo/Hi are easy enough. Once Part 1 is set up as shown below, go to Part 2 Get Numbers. Then press again and a new number will come up one at a time just like wheel spins.

    Set up 3.png Set Up 4.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2022
    Rond1nell1 likes this.
  11. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    You just need a simple lookup table in your spreadsheet to map numbers to red and black.

    Personally I prefer python notebooks on Google Colab for data analysis and testing. Much more powerful than excel, but you need some ability to code.

    I do use excel or Google sheets but more for back of the napkin simple things.
     
  12. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

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    For testing, you could purchase WincrapsPro. $14.95 for the download.

    You can use it to test millions of RNG rolls, or enter your own actual dice rolls.

    https://www.cloudcitysoftware.com

    You can also record rolls by watching sessions on YouTube

    A good source for 1,000+ actual rolls over multiple sessions, is the Slotlady channel.

     
  13. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    What kind of output does WincrapsPro have? Something like the following:

    4 5 6 6 10 8 3 6 11 11 8 4

    9 7

    10 8 7

    2

    3

    5 3 4 10 11 3 4 8 3 8 3 9 3 7

    9 4 4 4 2 7

    12

    8 9 3 2 7

    2

    3

    4 11 7
     
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  14. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

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    What do you mean by 'output'?
     

  15. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    The RNG is still a bit limited. Best to use a dice roll file with historical rolls or random.org
     
  16. Chip Magnet

    Chip Magnet Member

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    Ten consecutive DP wins. Never saw that, but anything is possible. The Midgley collection of real dice rolls, has 16 straight DP wins.

    WCP uses the Mersene Twister for the RNG rolls, and the outcomes over a series of rolls are very much as mathematically expected.

    I prefer to use my own collection of about 80k real dice table rolls for testing and comparing strategies.

    I underlined 'table' because the rolls are not 'bubble' rolls.
     
  17. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    That's one PRNG I do not trust.

    https://arxiv.org/pdf/1910.06437

    When the Mersenne Twister made his first appearance in 1997 it was a powerful example of how linear maps on F2 could be used to generate pseudorandom numbers. In particular, the easiness with which generators with long periods could be defined gave the Mersenne Twister a large following, in spite of the fact that such long periods are not a measure of quality, and they require a large amount of memory. Even at the time of its publication, several defects of the Mersenne Twister were predictable, but they were somewhat obscured by other interesting properties. Today the Mersenne Twister is the default generator in C compilers, the Python language, the Maple mathematical computation system, and in many other environments. Nonetheless, knowledge accumulated in the last 20 years suggests that the Mersenne Twister has, in fact, severe defects, and should never be used as a general-purpose pseudorandom number generator. Many of these results are folklore, or are scattered through very specialized literature. This paper surveys these results for the non-specialist, providing new, simple, understandable examples, and it is intended as a guide for the final user, or for language implementors, so that they can take an informed decision about whether to use the Mersenne Twister or not.
     
  18. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    I do use Random.org's Dice Roller as my number 1 choice for accuracy, allthough it's a lot more difficult than using a rng simulator. I have to keep track of what the point is, and where I am placing the bet, and how much the next bet is.
     
  19. TwoUp

    TwoUp Active Member

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    You can use it with wincraps pro if you want also. It can take dice roll files
     
  20. David Gregory

    David Gregory Active Member

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    I am okay with Random.org. I made from poster board a layout like shown below and use pennies under each position as markers:

    Point 4 5 6 8 9 10

    Bet is On

    Bet is Off

    Bet Pass 1u 2u 4u 8u 16u 32u

    Bet Don't Pass 1u 2u 4u 8u 16u 32u

    Wins:
    l l l l Here I just make a mark for every 1 unit won.

    On a notebook pad I keep track of outcomes. P P D P D D D P P D etc.

    BTW, quite a while back I switched from a 7-step Marty to a 6-step because it seems to hit within 5 or less tries most of the time. And more importantly it is only 1/2 the loss. 32 units verses 64 units. I stil play a session to a 64 unit win.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022 at 11:57 PM

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