Las Vegas GF Chat Room

I fell asleep reading his response...did he answer your question?

 

LOL, of course not…

When you consider after decades of posters like Kewlj, Redietz, Axelwolf, Maxpen, jbjb, and a few others, and their endless efforts put into trying to convince anonymous people how they beat or are still beating the shit out of casinos; at this point, no doubt indicates a serious illness with these people.

I believe living their lives for decades with the unknown future that is a reality that always comes with gambling has taken its toll on them. Especially when you and your family’s lives to include health insurance, cars, homes, kids and their costs, retirement, and all the rest of everyday life expenses, is based on your next bet.

I am not buying their bullshit. I also do not believe most of them have retired or can afford to. You have a better chance of becoming president then making it through life as a gambler.

Sorry folks, as much as you would want us to believe what you are trying to sell us, you are all not gifted Einstein’s. If this shit was so good none of you would be able to get close to a machine. There are over 330 million people just in the USA. The dozen people posting this bullshit are not this special. Word spreads fast about good things. Hard gambling is not one of them.

You may have noticed I did not include Mdawg or Rob in my list above. That should be obvious why. Both are harmless with stories that require wishful imaginations. Neither are claiming to have made a living or retiring from gambling.

 

Hey Blackhole, I get it that you say those listed are not successful pros, able to earn good money and retire comfortably, but do you maintain that Nobody else can do it?

And if so: if others can, why can't they?

 

Provide me with a list of people that have been confirmed having enjoyed a comfortable retirement till their deaths from casino or sports gambling?

 

Fair post
The answer to both of you is yes there are plenty of people who have been successful etc.

One of you is pro dawg singer the other violently opposed.
Yes there are a lot of posts by kewlj, dietz etc that is just magic thinking for the general public to quaff down like MacDonald fries.

Neither of you two have a well informed or balanced view of what actually happens in real world casinoverse. I had mentioned to mr v the next time he went to donate his fun money that he should actually spend the time to really look around. Visit the tables discreetly over the number of days he was there. Look at who and how that same person is winning be it roulette or baccarat. You will notice a difference in that player versus the rest of the degenerate that go. I would suggest the same exercise for blackhole. Look intelligently not just casually as it’s not always the big chip denomination that quantifies success at the tables. I’m assuming that you both are capable of analysis in observing functionality, although posts by both of you seem to indicate you are not actually very observant. Mho.
Your pro will not usually be there late at night or on weekends,Friday, Saturday so don’t waste your time looking then. this presents a problem if you both only go on weekends for the weekend , as one of you is an admitted degenerate gambler you will only see fun players.

The professional is known by the casinoverse staff, it’s not the problem that a lot of posters post here “ having to fly under the radar” etc post lol. The professional earns $100-$1000 every day 5 days a week. Some earn more upwards of $10 k per week on AVERAGE.

The retirement aspect is the same as wage earners, business people. You invest in areas outside of the gaming industry.

Neither of you can tell me that there are not good decent wage earners, wonderful business people that HAVE NOT being able to retire comfortably after all their years of working. There are huge numbers worldwide that just don’t make it. You can add elite athletes to that list also. These failures most likely didn’t invest any of the surplus funds at any stage of their careers.
Blakhole you sold your franchise, v you retired as a defence attorney/ambulance chaser, I’m sure both of you invested your surplus money or at least one of you had a lump sum payment on your bank account, bill of sale or long service retirement plan payout.

It’s no different from the professional player, they run it like a business, they invest accordingly along the way , they don’t play for fun. There are noticeable professional examples of horses and sports betting people that are successful , some are legitimate and legendary here in Skipptophia and are known in the industry internationally.

You are both incorrect in your assessment of what you have both posted this forum, funny how blackhole and I are supposedly interchangeable according to a clueless degenerate and the other one blackholes is just as clueless in his argument. Interchangeable that’s a definite no.

I’m not totally sure on blackholes angle for his posts. I’m not sure if it’s because he’s lost a lot of money attempting to make money from the casinoverse, been burned by some scam or ill conceived foray or he’s just not been able to handle the pressure that actually goes hand in glove with being a successful professional. Or just a sore loser that realises that it’s no fun losing money and therefore no one else is capable of achieving something he has not.

No you two gentlemen are wrong even though you are seemingly approaching the subject from different directions. I know one of you for sure doesn’t want to learn the alternative way to make legitimate profit as he has stated this forum on another thread. That’s fair enough and he is more than welcome to spend his money as he sees fit. Thanks for your donation mr v.

You blackhole care to share the reason you are unable to see the chips for the shit? Or did I cover it here already.

It’s the maphjizzzzzzz lol.

 

I'm new here. Just joined about five minutes ago. How do I go about asking a question and starting a new thread?

Thank you

 

Visit an cemetery in the poor end and see for yourself the many wage earners that went out poorly.

 

Punkcity,

After reading your post and considering your alleged knowledge of being “well informed or balanced view of what actually happens in the real world of casino gambling” one could only assume you must be a professional.

Of course, being a gambler or not the wheel of life spins different for everyone.

Do you or did you earn $100-$1000 every day 5 days a week? Did you earn even more upwards of $10 k per week on AVERAGE? Did you invest your winnings? Are you comfortably retired with your investments?

If so, will your tombstone say Punkcity on it? At least we got our first confirmed name of a happily retired gambler.

Of course, I must be a broken-down shoe because I simply refuse to believe anything without confirmed facts, or just because Punkcity says so.

 

Arsestounding post blackhole.
My bad I’m unable to locate YOUR verified post of “Sale of automotive franchise”
“Gross Sale Price”
Etc
Would you be so kind as to provide those details here on the interverse?
Would you be so kind to verify YOUR name and address on that bill of sale “franchise” agreement or is it listed as blackhole as the seller?

No you will not .

Therefore what you “DEMAND” of others is just hypocritical nonsense on your part.

I have not called your claim of “Franchise millionaire” bogus on this forum have I ? My personal opinion is mine if you did or did not become wealthy and as this is a forum on gambling I couldn’t see the need for the volunteer of your company information that you posted previously here this forum. I don’t frequent at all other forums so I don’t know how many other forums you felt the need to “ post your acquisition of wealth from automotive franchise sale in the millions of dollars” lardie dar dar who wishes he has a big cock post.

Why did you feel the need to post your status of wealth here this forum?

Now let’s get to the mix shall we?

I will not verify that which you ask of me for exactly the same obvious reasons YOU will not post verified information about your account. Frankly I didn’t think you would be that stupid ( obviously I’m wrong) posting the post I’m replying to.

Arsestounding.

It’s a zero return post on your part. It allows you to be just as big a hypocrite liar as you accuse others this forum namely kewlj etc.

The post you are replying to from me is actually a post that suggests ways to PROVE TO YOURSELF the verification you requested of if indeed there are professional gamblers making a profit on a consistent daily/weekly/monthly basis. You just have to get off your high horse and do some simple research for yourself.
Can you do that ? Yes you can
Will you do that ? From your response, NO you can’t , you’re too fucking lazy , you wish to remain ignorant that’s your prerogative, but refrain from asking stupid questions of verification on the interverse ESPECIALLY when you will not VERIFY YOUR OWN ASSETS.
Be a stupid person but at least don’t be a stupid hypocrite like kewlj and crew.

The answer is yes

That is the sole reason I can accept the information presented by mydawg baccarat thread. Been there , doing it now. No I don’t give a flying fuck if you believe me or not . I have never sought validation on this or any other forum nor do I need too be validated by anyone here, I m too one dimensional for that to be of meaning to me. There are a number of legitimate members here that also qualify as successful professionals.

Incidentally who the fuck puts on their tombstone how much money they have at time of death? I know dietz thinks the aliens are going to covert his writings in a thousand years time , are you a cousin of his? Think it though how idiotic your post is.

Once again

To prove to “yourself the cold hard facts, due to self observation” that there are professional successful gamblers out there earning a consistent income daily/weekly/monthly simply requires you, yes you the blind, you the ignoramus to not be so closed minded and actually open your eyes to what ACTUALLY happens in the casinoverse.
No one can offer the verified facts on the interverse you need. You have to verify it yourself and it is verifiable in any casinoverse near you, anywhere on planape earfh. You don’t want to do the homework yourself then shut the fuck up you’re becoming an embarrassment. You starting sound like kewlj and crew requesting verification yet unable to verify anything about them self.

 

I found my way to the Wizard of Odds back in the day from a goggle search. Being a part time gambler (phloppie) not sure about the spelling, I found the site interesting. Eventually that site led me to this and VCT. I’ve been banned from two of them simply because I kept shooting holes through their bullshit. I was not good for clicks. Especially after pointing out Mike Shank might know gambling math odds but was a confirmed loser until he sold the site for alleged big bucks.

I have been reading month after month, year after year, for decades about the same small group of people like you making outlandish gambling claims.

I make one post in all that time about my career and you have the balls to compare me to that same group posting thousands of posts for decades. What would you say if I didn’t make that one post?

I’ll tell you what you and the rest of the alleged professionals would and do say every time there is a challenge for proof. We must be degenerate casino losers living off the government after losing everything to the casinos. MrV who claims to enjoy gambling and can afford to lose some money was labeled a degenerate by you. Thank heaven I found this computer at the dumps.

All this conversation just because I asked for a list of confirmed casino gamblers who enjoyed a comfortable retirement to their death as a result directly from their gambling career. I did not ask for the secret ingredients to make the sauce.

The gambling stories are getting played out to include yours.

 

Blackhole, I appreciate the opportunity to elaborate.

I can't speak for anyone else doing anything else, but I do have a list of criteria that I think are a pretty decent checklist of what would be required to make a living betting sports.

1) You should be in the top 1% of the population in any kind of intelligence test you take.
2) You should be in the top 1% of the population in cardio fitness so you can utilize that intelligence 24/7 every day.
3) You need to have a father or relatives who were coaches the sports you bet and who you assisted with stats and game planning, preferably at a very young age (say, 13 or 14 at the latest).
4) For football, you should have grown up in an area of the country (Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas) where football is an ingrained part of day to day culture.
5) You should have hung out in enough questionable environments, at a very young age, to be "street-wise." I'd suggest exposure to and hanging out with bookmakers and such from age 16 onwards, at the latest.
6) You need to be disciplined enough to accept success in one area without feeling it necessary to try to win at other things.
7) You need to really not enjoy gambling per se. Keep it all academic, not something you do because you enjoy it, like it, or need to do it.

If you have all of these ingredients, you have a chance.

MrV, not the list of criteria one might expect, eh?

 

Blackhole's issue seems to have become a little clearer to me. He doesn't like and attacks players that claim they "make a living" by gambling means, which would be advantage players, but seems ok with Rob Singer and Mdawg, who claim to have won millions, but that they "do not make a living". So it is much more about this term "making a living" that about any dollar amount claimed won. He "believes two of the guys that claim two of the higher total amounts won, seemingly on the basis that they didn't use the phrase "make a living".

The other odd part is blackhole completely dismisses any notion of the math involved. The two people he believes, despite having claims consiting of two of the higher total amounts won, have claims that defy the mathematics, whole, while AP's claiming to "make a living" have claims totaling less by completely backed by math. So it all comes down to that phrase or concept of "making a living". Not the math, not the total amount won.

Now here is the interesting part. Along comes Punkcity, who has claims that are much more in line with Singer and Mdawg. They defy the math. But he dared say that he has made a living playing, so blackhole is all over him. Blackholes issue seems to be with someone saying "they make a living via gambling", much more so that any amount won and completely devoid of anything to do with math.

 

Now a second interesting theme that has come forth in recent days involving this "making a living" that seems to be Blackholes big bugaboo, is that he claims he made a lot of money via no gambling means. He has always claimed that but recently mentioned for the first time that it was in franchising. Singer claims he made a lot of money in the aerospace industry. Mdawg claims he was born into a wealth family and is a lawyer. So all 3 claim to have made a lot of monet outside of gambling. Maybe they did, maybe they didn't. I have no reason to doubt blackhole. Singer I have a bit more reason to doubt, but have never looked into it too much. Mdawg I am pretty sure is somewhat wealthy, although some people suggest not as wealthy as he portrays.

But guess what? These are gambling forums we are talking about. Discussion of what anybody did or made outside of gambling is almost irrelevant. Maybe these guys should be on a franchising forum, or an aerospace forum, or a born with a silver spoon forum to talk up there success in these areas. This is a gambling forum where we are interested in peoples gambling. And real winning players, real long-term winning players, that is about the math. There has to be something you are doing that flips the advantage in the players favor to win long-term. AP and "people really "playing for a living" can tell you exactly what there advantage is and where it comes from. Blackhole doesn't seem to care about that as long as they don't use the phrase "playing for a living".

 

Blackhole takes his bias even further by poo-pooing the AP's that claim to make or "play for a living", by comparing oranges to apples in downplaying the amounts they make.

Again, I have no idea if blackhole is as wealthy or made what he claims outside of gambling, but he seems to be out of touch with what "making a living" is. The average household income in the United States is $70,000. More often than not there are two working people involved in that income amount. The median household income would be even lower, because for every person at the very high end, your professional sports players, and entertainers, and extremely high income CEO's who make millions and millions, there has to be hundred, maybe thousand of people making below that middle (average number). So the median income is a better measuring tool and that is even lower than $70,000.

I don't see or read too many AP's claiming to make millions a year or even multiple hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. The only people on gambling forums making those claims are people who's math doesn't work. Real AP's that make a living most make somewhere between 50k and 100k on average, depending on what they are doing and how much time and effort they put in. Maybe the best, over 100k average, but not too far over. And that is in the same range as the average income in the U.S. Nobody is claiming to get rich by advantage play "or making a living gambling".

So blackhole downplaying what advantage players or people claiming to "make a living gambling" by comparing it to people that whose income is far above the average or median, is just weird. What AP or real player making a living is claiming he is Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos or Bill Gates? We are making a decent living.

Same applies to retirement money. After working a lifetime, most people have a few hundred thousand saved for retirement. Some, lower wage earners almost nothing and totally dependent on social security. It is only the well off, top percent wage earners that have really saved millions for retirement. And blackhole wants to us that standard to compare against AP's. Again oranges to apples. AP's are much closer to working people amounts, it is just we choose a self-employment type path, involving the mathematics of gambling.

 

Well, I don't don't think he's dead yet, but I had one particular professional gambler in mind when I asked the question, a gambler so successful that I suspect that even you, BH, will take a knee and admit you were wrong in disbelieving successful professional gamblers actually exist, and that it ain't a Bigfoof sort of thing.

So let me introduce to you the one and only BILLY WALTERS.

 

"The answer is yes"

So Punk, you're a pro?

Knocking em dead, are you?

What games do you win at and what are your methods that have led you to success?

No proof needed, just info.

Thanks.

 

Complicating things even further is that you do have people showing up on these forums claiming very big winning amounts doing thing that would be considered advantage play. Claims involving Multi-carding seems to be big right now. People like seedvalue and Dark oz at WoV. While they are able to explain the math and advantage, their stories and amounts claimed is not complete in my mind. Can you image a player sitting at a machine playing off hundreds of different players card, constantly pulling and replacing cards. That isn't going to last long.

Their claims are also incomplete because of the way they claim. "A 20k week". That is NOT an average. Such a week would be an extreme outlier, but they say 20k a week like it is an average. Real players "making a living" or advantage players are not making that kind of money. Even guys playing to a decent advantage. The bigger the advantage of a play, the less frequency you are able to play that play. It all evens out to about the same amount and that is an amount that is making a decent living, but working to do so. THAT is what advantage play or making a living from gambling is in todays world.

 

There are outliers, people at the extreme high end of amounts played and won. You can probably list a handful of poker players that are also such outliers. In Blackjack, you have Don Johnson, the guy that made millions in AC taking advantage or loss rebates for a year or two.

It is kind of like professional sports figures. For every one at the extreme top level making crazy money, there are hundreds that scraping by in the minor league and thousands that don't even make it that far.

 

I apologize for the excessive mis-spelling, especially all the words with missing letters at the end. My phone seems to be dropping or not recording some of the letters at the ends of words and that doesn't play well with a 5 minute edit time frame. Probably time to invest in a new phone.

 

-EV gambling is playing a game with a (usually small) house advantage. Advantage play (+EV) is finding something, some technique that flips that advantage ever-so-slightly to the players long-term. If you can find enough of these plays or play one thing with enough trials, a player can "make a living".

The amounts involved in "making a living" don't vary that much. Most plays have a very liny advantage (think card counting) and require a large number of trials. This is sometimes referred to as grinding. As players find things with bigger advantages, the frequency that you can get down that play diminishes. Basically, that amount is somewhere between 50k and 150k, depending on what where and how much time you put in. THAT is what "making a living" via gambling, or commonly called advantage play is. And it is work and dealing with variance and other factors.

If you are looking to get rich, find another path. Sounds like franchising or being born wealthy are options.