Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Actually, in terms of commonly held stereotypes about hard core computer geeks: yes, she meets the standard.

 

As a casual observer.....it sure as hell looks this way!

Seems many of your post are defending WoV, mod and/or members and that's fine, but I don't think you are a very objective party here AxelWolf.

When I joined WoV, while it was not specifically an AP site, there were a number of legitimate, successful AP members, like yourself and that and AP topics as well as gambling and Vegas subjects were the draw for me. It is undeniable that WoV has declined since that time, with fewer such discussions and it has become more heavily moderated, very over-moderated, IMO, on most of the non-AP discussions and even some of the AP discussions. Moderators, including the guy who the site bares his name, frequently ignore their own rules and/or make up rules and penalties as they go. BBB is by far the worst administrator as far as over-moderating. Even other moderators will not argue this point.

In addition, there is a very obvious double standard in that moderates give different treatment to, often siding with, members that they consider friends or are friendly with. And I am not just talking about Mike who admitted this regarding his actions in dealing with my situation vs Qfit. Again, BBB is probably the worst offender in this category, very frequently treats different members differently, based on friendships or her "liking" them, or even their political views and statements. There can be no denying this!

As I have stated before, I don't like the level of the attacks and the personal nature that some here take them to, but you, nor no one else looking objectively, can deny that WoV has declined from an AP/gambling/Vegas related site, to more of a social site of misc discussions that is severely over-moderated and BBB is the worst offender of this over-moderation. WoV is now completely irrelevant as far as a AP-related site of any value. It is now just an over-moderated social type site, with "cliques" including moderators, that is the "front" or trying to draw people to online casinos.

 

Most threads are gambling related.

Yes, they often veer.

Discussions of non-gambling matters wouldhave to be discouraged, if not prohibited,forf the board to return to what you say it once was.

 

That is not going to happen. Mike was/is an AP. There are some here that want to examine his success as an AP and disqualify him from that title. I don't have the information necessary to do that, nor am I interested in judging anyone in that manner. But regardless of whether anyone thinks Mike qualifies as an AP, he had at least some AP mentality and that was sort of the foundation of WoV, IMO.

That no longer is the case. The new owners of the site are not AP's by my definition, despite that Joshua Chan declared himself an AP in his introduction or welcoming interview at BJ21 and/or Blackjackinfo. Latest Casino Bonuses has one objective.....SITE TRAFFIC. They have a formula that every visit to the site is worth X amount of dollars. And that is their concern....not AP discussions or even quality of any discussion.

So, NO...it isn't returning to the "good old days". Few things ever do.

 

Kewlj’s post pretty much nails what that site became.

Before the compulsive gambler owner Mike S. eventually couldn’t support his habit any longer and was forced to sell his sites over a measly 80k alleged loss in Cyprus, the sites were considered to be respected informative sites. If it wasn’t for Joshua Chan’s vision to advertise online casinos to USA gamblers through the back door of the sites, I doubt the sites would even exist today.

I know that everyone who swears how well they know Mike, a gambling problem never existed. The truth of that matter is no one actually knows for sure. He would have god reason to keep his gambling habits in the closet to protect whatever income he was generating. A person who dedicates a career to gambling math and owns forums to discuss it, along with admitting he never succeeded at ap’ing, only makes sense he was a gambling fool.

Mr. Chan is no fool and if he really paid that much to Mike for his sites, you could bet on him doing a great deal of research on the USA online gaming market. He already is the leader of online gaming promotion out of country.

The sites only purpose today is to generate USA offshore online gaming profits that are shared with Mr. Chan. It should be obvious that the topics being discussed there are now meaningless to any gambling veteran and especially to Mr. Chan who obviously couldn’t care less. Any AP who wants to claim the site is useful to them just weakens their claims of success even further.

This was an interesting article on Joshua Chan’s success with marketing online casinos. He discusses the purchase of Mikes sites sticking with the 80K Cyprus loss story, opening the door for additional opportunity.

Instead of cutting and pasting certain parts of the article, I thought reading the whole thing was a better way to confirm his view to generate profits from purchasing Mike’s sites. Promoting offshore online casino gambling through the back door for a bigger piece of the billion-dollar USA market is all that matters.

The morons posting there are just morons. Before I got nuked, all my posts there were just trying to point out the morons.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...OaMIWrZDwV8gFbngA&sig2=UwMwaNOJ-sY0jGWYZaBUWw

 

My evil plan worked then. That's certainly better for all AP's.

Whats left to talk about regarding AP? I have yet to find some really good AP information on that site.(I found some really good people)
Most forums are declining especially with all the Facebook, Twitter Snap Chat, Instagram,Grinder etc etc, especially gambling forums. You should know that most gambling forms are declining. AP fever hit it's peak long ago.

I'm really not sure how many times someone can ask what's the best way to play my free play? How come I played a 98% slot and lost 75%? Why am I losing after two hours of counting, I play BJ perfectly. Is the casino cheating me?

IMO that site was never good for AP information. Perhaps a complete novice might learn something like how to play a loss rebate on a 9/6 JOB or that his bet ramp is to passive.

BTW what does over moderation have to do with the decline of relevant AP? What good information giver AP's have been banned or ran off while engaging in AP conversations? Can you give me a list of AP's that were banned or unfairly ran off for whatever reason? Perhaps you? Obvious not MC, I didn't see any love loss with EXOTOR175 Lem66 who was a novice AP got unfairly banned IMO but he didn't add any AP value, just some entertainment.

You know that controversy, fighting, flaming and BS is a big draw and that's why many people keep come back and tune in. That's not what Mike wants, That's not really what the owners want.

I can't comment on biased moderating,especially regarding the election thread. I honestly think they should've appointed someone specific who didn't give a shit who won to moderate that thread.

Is it normally biased or do people paint a target on their back? Who really cares, it's not the law, it's not your life or anything significant. Hell, I would ban people I didn't like just because I felt like it. I have been unfairly suspended a few times IMO. However, I had a feeling it was coming so I wasn't surprised. I have gotten away with a few as well. It's fairly obvious who's going to get banned or suspended from early on. Occasionally someone that's normally passive says something uncharacteristic and gets tagged, however they usually know and accept it.

Look at most of the people who got banned it's obvious what kind of online personally they have. For instance someone like hoeshlablotnik.

I would defend anyone here who I thought deserved it. I have defended and criticized you. I have defended Boz on both sites(not that he needed it).

 

I call BS on that. I nor anyone I know has ever seen or heard of Mike doing anything compulsive regarding gambling. Anytime I have seen him playing a -EV game it's been a social entertainment situation on low limits betting red chips for short periods of times and only on games with a very low a ha. I didn't think he's ever claimed he's in the red overall he just said he made significantly more doing other stuff.

There's no way he could've built that site and maintained a highly successful AP career. Especially without a team willing to pick up the slack. He would also have to be willing to work in grey areas and do things like hole carding and risk getting 86ed from many places limiting his freedom to research new games, survey casino and other things. There's also a good chance the people who had juicy information wouldn't want to share that stuff with him because that would cut into their profits. I wouldn't want to be sitting near Mike on a good play in fear he or his name would be recognized.

I'm not sure what all AP he's been on in the past(I know he had some bad experiences with BJ teams or something like that), however if he's mainly been on high denomination low percentage plays, there's a good chance he could've ran extremely bad, For instance something like the recently talked about SLS play that BD talked about.

Honestly, the successful professional gamblers that rid themselves of a significant amount of risk that are almost guaranteed to make a profit every few months seriously think outside the box and make plays you'll probably never know existed. Guys have to get deep into AP to make a significant profit. Half in, half out usually wont cut it.

Don't disregard Mikes sports and prop betting, I guarantee you he's a lock to profit on that and he's not messing around betting it.

 

I expected better from you. Anyways it's not true.

We cant all be as fit and sexy as you and everyone you know.

Sometimes people have heath problems including thyroid, back, legs etc etc. You have no idea what's going on in peoples lives or what they might be going through.

There's a difference between people willing bantering back and forth but blatantly and constantly attacking people for such things it a shitty thing to do. Especially someone who's hiding themselves behind a screen name, who's probably got weight and other issues themselves. Certainly these people are worst than they claim their victims are.

 

Axel,

Your entire post about Mike is based on for hearsay, or your personal opinion. Absolutely no different than my assumptions of him. So, with no confirmed facts I guess it’s a toss-up between our opinions.

I really didn’t mean to get into Mike in my last post, was sought of just a response to KewlJ’s post.

What I did mean to get into was what most would agree with is that the site is no longer what it once stood for. It’s no different than visiting any other online gambling affiliated sites like Casinomeister.

At one time, it stood slightly above the rest, but now it’s loaded with boring war stories like listening to endless poker players who carry on about the idiot who knocked him out of a game when he got his chips in right.

Face it Axel, the site sucks and is just another online gambling affiliate site. You being a top poster there heading for top billing soon, doesn’t speak well for your alleged status, which also makes your biased opinions here seem suspect. Sadly, from what I could tell is you consider the WOV site your home.

You say, "Don't disregard Mikes sports and prop betting, I guarantee you he's a lock to profit on that and he's not messing around betting it."

Once again you can't guarantee anything. What would you say if the tin cup came out again?

 

Perhaps there is not as much valuable, useful info about AP at WoV for the simple reason that AP opportunities worth pursuing are becoming fewer and harder to master?

I don't play BJ and am not an AP, but from what I read card counting is pretty much dead, at least it is difficult to pull off successfully and profitably due to increased casino surveillance and counter-measures.

Counting is what brought the early interest in AP to the fore; now that it is basically passe, I suspect most gamblers no longer focus on counting: why beat a dead or dying horse?

So what other forms of AP are available?

Edge sorting?

By report it is very difficult, certainly more difficult than counting was back in the days following "Beat the Dealer."

Anyway, I just think that the difficulty in counting successfully today has contributed to the claimed dearth of meaty AP posts, both at WoV and elsewhere.

Couple that to the understandable reluctance of AP's who have figured out an angle to share it with the world, correctly reasoning that if they want it to continue they need to keep quiet about it, lest the casinos catch on and move to squelch further such opportunities.

The salad days of AP have passed.

 

Hey not my fault I was born when I was. I'll speak to my mother about her timing.

This MrV....is hogwash. Participating on several mostly blackjack and card counting "themed" forums, I read this a lot....especially from some of the older members, who are frustrated with current conditions compared to 20-30 years ago. I get this frustration. But...it is what it is. And the fact is that the basic mathematics of the game and how to beat the game, have not changed. Yes, there are a couple rule changes like CSM and 6:5 that have rendered a small percentage of games unplayable, but those are mostly low limit games. Not the games that anyone playing to make any reasonable money is playing.

Aside from those "older generation" players that like to complain about the good old days, there is a younger generation of card counters, like myself, that have been in the game 10-12 years or less (I am finishing my 13th year supporting myself fro BJ play). And for us, the less favorable conditions, like dealer hit soft 17, less surrender available, and more 6 deck games with mediocre penetration, are all we have ever known. We started out playing and learning to beat these games. Yeah, you have to adjust your plan of attack from the days where a counter could just sit and play through every hand, every shoe. You have to escape some of the worst of the negative expectation rounds and you have to bounce around a little more. I personally, track multiple tables and jump from moderate negative counts to more favorable situations. Surveillance and pit aren't going to let you sit for 8 hours beating their game. This is where the older generation is frustrate, but this is all we (newer generation players) have ever known and how we learned to beat the game. The bottom line is the math still works. Just takes a little more effort and a little bit of creativity.

As you know, AW, I am mostly a blackjack AP, with a very small amount of very elementary machine play stuff on the side and I no longer even handle the machine play part, my partner does. But, as a blackjack card counter AP, I have learned thing and picked up little tidbits from every site I have participated on, including WoV. Sometimes it is something really small, a minor detail. Sometimes something that improves my game as far as EV, sometimes something that may lead to more longevity, which is equally important to a card counter, with a shearer (vs slaughter) mentality. Most of my game and my plan of attack was learned by other players sharing their experiences on various message boards. I've taken little bits and pieces, sometimes put my own spin on them and formed a game plan suited for my situation.

But the most valuable aspect is the people. You meet people that you may choose to network with privately. This is huge for a serious AP. You know this. Maybe you meet people personally and partner for some play. Maybe your relationship remains a networking situation as most of mine have. Either way, networking is a huge thing for an AP.

And there is a third aspect as to why AP's participate on different sites. Sometimes you just want chat with like minded people that may understand what you are feeling. Some don't have the ability to "talk shop" at home, as their spouse/significant other don't have a clue to AP. I was in that situation for a couple years. Sometimes you just want to share war stories with someone who understand the negative swings and variance associated with some forms of AP (like card counting). Sometimes we need a shoulder to cry on and a pat on the back from others who have gone through the same emotions.

No, I am not going to give you a list of legitimate AP's that were run off. And BTW, it doesn't have to be a situation where that particular AP was banned or suspended. Sometimes they get tired of or just don't appreciate the non-professionalism and stop participating. I know you don't participate at Qfit's blackjack site, but in the summer of 2015, when the blow up occurred that lead to me being banned not only at Qfit's site, but him trolling me to other sites and requesting/demanding that other site owners ban or censor me....multiple legitimate successful AP's left the site at that time. Only 3 of us were directing involved in that incident, but many more left. Maybe they just didn't want to deal with that kind of drama. Maybe they had a problem with the unprofessional way the site was run, by one dominating and polarizing figure. I am not speaking for anyone, but many exited at that point. And they didn't all die off. They are around participating at other sites. So who knows what drives members away.

And the same thing has occurred at WoV. recently there was a link here to an old thread at WoV that was on the topic of AP (can't remember exactly what). When I linked to that WoV thread, I was immediately struck by the number of legitimate, respected members in that thread that no longer participate at WoV. Some name were in red. Some publicly left when a online casino bought the site, some have more quietly moved on. I don't have the answers as to why in all cases. But if I ran a site even a little bit associated with AP, I would have looked into it. The new owners don't care about AP or even creating good discussion (AP or other) so they don't care.

As per the drama: Despite, what my reputation has become, I am not a real drama guy. I was involved in exactly 1, drama situation at WoV in 4+ years (over 3000 posts) and that was with someone who trolled me to that site specifically to create such a situation. So I wasn't drawn by the drama. I did enjoy the opportunity to participate in a handful of non-AP topic discussions, that other sites didn't afford me.

 

Looks like another ban at WOV. Joeshlabotnik this time. Wasn't he a character in the Peanuts comic strip? It's not even worth mentioning for the ban itself...more about those involved and how it came about.

Like others, Joe was on the wrong side of the issue and that caused Beached Whale to put a target on his back. She practically told the board that Joe was toast but she was giving him a little more rope....enjoying toying with him, enjoying the hunt, smelling the blood.

A couple of hours after the Whale called it a night, Mission146/husband of the year comes crawling out of his hole up in hillbilly land and bans the guy. Something about a truce violation. Sound familiar? A page right from the book of the cult leader himself...manboy.

The whale was on it. It was her catch but husband of the year had to rush in, tripping over himself, to make the call. A clear message that he thinks the whale is incompetent, that he has zero respect for her. Probably the biggest slap in the face that that decrepit site has ever seen.

Of course, the usual pissants over there are dancing in the streets that they got someone else banned. They love shutting down anyone who is smarter than they are...anyone that makes them look bad. Giving their likes and plus ones. What they don't realize is that the only ones making them look bad are themselves.

Try not to throw up as I leave you with this comment from WOV member Joeman to his idol, Beached Whale. He said "I'll vote for you to become WOV homecoming queen". Why is the forum dying?

 

Speaking of disrespectful, Mission146/Pierce G/husband of the year has brought the forum to a new low with the disgusting article he wrote on Craigslist. He posted it in the Miscellaneous Discussion section complete with a link. He tells the foolish cult members that he wants to get 'Best Of' Craigslist and begs the forum to click on and help him out.

In typical husband of the year form, it's another way too long terrible article. This one is about stopping at a service plaza, taking a dump and getting urine on his shorts. It's a lot worse than it sounds. I guess trash begets trash.

Maybe that could be a new WOV challenge. Who has the best men's room story. Hey Josh, Zuga, your *cough* writer is in great form. Make sure the 800,000 members of LCB get to read it.

How about a road trip? Mission/Pavlov, Josh, Zuga, Beached Whale and loyal cult members rent a bus. Go to a rest area and all take a shit together. Maybe do a little foot tapping.

I'd be surprised if that trash didn't get deleted so read it while you can.

 

All she does is eat and mod.

 

Joeshlabotnik is not of my political leaning, however he is cogent in his remarks. He has a way with words and I like that even though I dont agree with him. But he is the type of person I love to debate. He is the type of person that brings attention and brings people back daily.

You know someone who keeps on topic and unlike Junketking who needs to talk about black cock.....Joesh has the ability to really give people a run for their money on the topic at hand.

THAT is his crime....he was banned for being a very good and biting debater. He is very good at what he does and what he says and people with lesser skills need him to be gone. People who cant answer debate points and cant fend for themselves intellectually needed him to be gone.

I mean, anyone can debate a baffoon that rather talk about a black mans penis like JK.....but Joesh stayed on topic.....and welcomed an exchange.

And beached whale mulled it over for an hour? what the fuck..does she savor this opportunity that she has to make it last? Its not brain surgery...either it meets the criteria or it doesnt. What the fuck is there to spend an hour of your life "mulling over".

A cannister of Costco cookies and a half gallon of milk can take an hour for her.......but figuring out a nuke????

not really alot to think about unless you are looking and looking for a reason to nuke.

 

No, he was banned for being a continuous disruptive negative asshole and constantly insulting people. He was given fair warning. His 8 years of AP story was BS, it definitely didn't add up. If it's true that he was mlk he reinvented himself and totally made up the more AP stuff up using other people stories. Perhaps he was an employee of someone for a while.

 

Holy shit. Forgot this forum existed. Funny how you guys love to insult and talk shit about people who (whom?) you say, "hide behind a keyboard all day".

What's worse, being on your computer all day or being on your computer all day and insulting people who aren't even on their computer all day?


Larry, I'm sure you'd love to debate with Joeshlabotnik.....you're like 2 peas in a pod.....you both think you're making "cogent arguments" all day and all night, but you're both just insulting people then getting mad when people see through your idiotic and demeaning posts.


Get up and stretch every hour or so, y'all don't wanna get too stiff sitting in your chair going over every WoV thread and responding to it all here.

 

Partially agree with your post RS,but I have to say this forum has more appeal, then you and(IBYA),trying to be the voice of reason,and beating a dead horse over and over at VCT with Dumb Ass Mendelson and Singer himself about AP play.Those two knuckleheads,will never learn.Your AP knowledge, is way above there mental capacity!The only ones who know anything AP related, other then you,and the exaggerator(IBYA)... Is DRUFF over at that anemic site.

 

Arcimedes is good but rarely posts at VCT anymore. He goes all the way back to the early 2000's as a Rob Singer foil. This goes back to FREEvpFREE where he was known as moreoejacks or something like that. I know you've seen Rob complain about "anonymous posters hiding in their mother's basement." The thing is, Rob Singer never divulged his true identity. It was arcimedes/moreoejacks, with some sleuthing, that discovered Rob's true identity, Robert Harry Argentino. He even found the Arizona bankruptcy Rob filed in the nineties, and found all those properties Rob was supposed to own but actually belonged to someone else.

 

PS, arcimedes is an expert at the most difficult video poker game there is, One Eyed Jacks, hence his old screen name, moreoejacks. He's from Minnesota. He found some $1 unlinked Flush Attacks up there, 101.8%. He asked on Paladin's forum if anyone knew how to exploit them. I gave him the lowdown on how to beat the game.