Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Don't know what happened there. I was attempting to quote an old post of mine and comment on it. Maybe the mod can fix it.

 

It's not in the DNA of most AP's to brag. As a matter of fact, I would argue the opposite....most AP's don't talk specifics about finances. I do talk specifics but that is because I decided early on that I wanted to share my experiences and journey. That was my way of giving back. Early on when I talked about wins and losses, whether describing a prolonged streak, or yearly results, I took to using the generic language of "Units".

But that just didn't work well for two reasons. Obviously people playing a smaller unit, can't really relate too well. And second, in the blackjack community there is a debate about the term unit. From a number of books from the 80's, unit became synonymous with the term minimum wager, or the smallest wager that card counters place while waiting for the good 'counts' or positive expectation rounds. But that is not REALLY what a unit is. A unit is really the amount of wager placed at certain increments of advantage. Often the amount wagered at .5% advantage. The minimum wager really should not be equal to that, but rather a fraction of that. I call this (my definition) of unit the bigplayer/munchkin definition, because I learned it from Richard Munchkin and a poster on some of the blackjack sites, with the handle of bigplayer. Bigplayer was/is a long time member of one of the famous BJ teams (not MIT). All of these teams (including MIT) and most professional players use this "amount wagered per increment of advantage" definition.

So any way after a couple years of posting results and experiences in units (my definition) and having most people on the forums who were using the 'minimum wager' definition (the definition inaccurately popularized by Stanford Wong), completely lost, I just switch to discussing in dollars for clarity. And people have accused me of bragging ever since. Believe me, that is not my intent. I know my place in the pecking order. I play mid-level stakes....more accurately the lower end of mid-level stakes. And my results reflect that.

But anyway...that's me. Back to your claim. Can you show me where Mike ever bragged of being a millionaire because I don't remember reading anything like that and it seems pretty out of character for him. He is more likely to brag about climbing a rope or unicycling x amount of miles than brag about financial achievements. The only two instances that even come close to braggadociousness that I have seen from Mike is when he moved into his house and posted picture and a couple years ago when he won 5 different parleys each worth $8000, he posted pictures of the tickets.

In the case of his home, it may have been a bit braggadocious but I think he was just proud and I don't see anything wrong with sharing that. In the case of the 5 parlay tickets.....I also don't have a problem with that. people on these sites are always screaming show me the proof....so he did. I mean you could make the case that he doesn't show pictures of all his losing parlay tickets. But whatever. lol Can you show me where he bragged of being a millionaire? maybe he did...but I must have missed it and would like to see.

 

There IS a lot of hatred on this site in general and specifically a lot directed at Mike. So I would like to take this opportunity to clarify my position. I don't hate Mike. Hate is a strong word and there are few if any people that I really hate. I may at times be unhappy, even angry, with the way someone treated me, but I don't hate.

Specifically regarding Mike, I always liked Mike (from the internet which is the only way I know him) until I feel he mistreated me in his handling of the "feud" situation on his site. So I took the opportunity provided here to express that I felt he was wrong and mistreated me. And I stayed on that message for probably longer than I should have and probably crossed the bounds of what I consider fair play, because I was/am fond of him and believe he is a decent person and I still believe that deep down he knows he handled that situation badly and mistreated me. I believe this from things he said to me privately as well as things others have said to me privately. I think his character flaw is not being able to acknowledge that publicly. That continues to disappoint me....but whatever.

And being that I don't 'hate' Mike, I certainly was never envious of him. I am speaking only for myself, but I am genuinely happy for any AP, recreational or professional, or even just anyone who enjoys a level in success doing something they enjoy and are passionate about. I can think of no better life than success at something you really enjoy. Without going back and looking, I am sure when the sale of WoO/WoV was announced, I make some sort of congratulatory statement and I most certainly was sincere in that offering.

 

Freddy, Isn't quoting and discussing your own post a lot like talking to yourself?

 

Mine was a theory as well. I never said that person was a sock-puppet, I only said she was a suspected-sock puppet by others.

One must wonder why I was singled out. Probably because i'm right way more often than not and that may have convinced others. Not that people didn't already suspect something was seriously off.

Either way, there is a big difference between speculating someone is a sock-puppet and what you were suggesting. I think you know that.

IMO that you are saying is just a tinfoil-hat conspiracy theory.When people just start coming up with wild theories like that it takes away from stuff that might be true. Next thing you know, people wont take anything seriously, true or not.

As far as I know Mike has been fairly generous allowing members in good standing to advertise or promote their stuff within reason, if you ask for permission.

 

KewlJ , how soon do you need it? It was in an interview for a newspaper or magazine. It's going to take some finding it but you did ask me twice so I'll do some searching. And the "unit" lesson was interesting though I don't fully understand it.

In the meantime, why do you continue to kiss Shackleford's ass? Because you want back in? You can't believe he banned you. I fully agree that you should be posting there, lending your expertise, taking people under your wing. Very admirable. But you are not going back. Believe me, if there was anything I could do to help you get back, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Manboy when asked about you: "Nope. Will never happen as long as I have anything to do with it. There are two forum members that are dead to me -- Statman and KewlJ. Haven't you gotten the message yet? It's not going to happen no matter how much you stick up for him...no matter how many Christmas cards you send him. By the way he doesn't believe in Christmas...he mocks it.

 

Really? Why does having fun and doing stuff involving heath and fitness warrant criticism? Come on now, you are grasping at straws here.

 

When you put it on youtube and brag about it. But it was just my opinion...not so much criticism.

Don't take it personally, AxleWolf. I brag when I win too. It's a good felling that I don't get enough of.

 

I don't "need" it freddy. You made an accusation that he bragged of being a millionaire that I am not familiar with and doesn't sound like him to me. I am not saying your are wrong, I am saying I would like to see it since I am not familiar with it. So when you get around to it is fine.

Yeah, there isn't a lot of specific blackjack discussion on this site, so I don't get into that kind of thing, but basically in Professional Blackjack, Wong popularized a betting pattern of $10 minimum wager, raising your wager in $10 increments at various advantages, resulting in a nice uniform bet spread of $10-$20-$30-$40-$50-$60-$70 and so on, and he called that a $10 unit. But the true definition of unit is what you wager at a set amount of advantage.

For example, in the case of a $100 unit, you would bet $100 at an advantage of .5% (roughly true count of +2), $200 at an advantage of 1% (roughly true count of +3), $300 at a 1.5% advantage, and so on. But you should not be betting this same $100 at all counts below true count of +2 where there is no advantage and you are waiting for an advantageous situation. At those counts you should bet as small as you can (table minimums) or a fraction of the unit. So at a $25 table, I would bet my spread would look something like $25-$100-$200-$300-$400. But at a $10 table my spread would look like $10-$100-$200-$300-$400. In both cases my unit would be $100. The unit is NOT the minimum bet, but the bet placed per increment of advantage.

The reason this matters is because Wong's spread isn't practical for today's games. Raising by table minimum and calling that your 'unit' (as Wong and others did in the 80's) is going to result in way to slow of a bet ramp. You aren't going to get your top wagers out until situations that occur far too infrequently to really benefit you. I think Wong just selected that as an easy example, not as a practical spread or use of the term unit, but it had the result of popularizing an incorrect use of unit and spread. Players utilizing this spread and 'unit' concept in today's games are likely playing a losing game. But, I digress. lol

I am not kissing Shackleford's ass. He was wrong in his treatment of me and how he handled the feud situation. He sided with a guy who never contributed, nor ever intended to contribute anything to the site over a member that was a regular contributor (3000 posts) over 4 years. I mean it's a year later...qfit has contributed what since? If Mike or anyone else didn't see it back them, they certainly should see it a year later....that this person had no intention of contributing. He just showed up to have someone with a differing opinion, silenced.

So I am not kissing Mike's ass, I just have moved on. The fact that someone wanted to censor me and Mike allowed and helped him do so, hurts, but it hasn't changed my life. It has just damaged my reputation and taken something I enjoyed away from me for no reason.

"Do I want back in?" I think I deserve to have him admit that his handling of the situation and treatment of me was wrong. I know in my heart he feels this, but don't think I will ever get that, but yes, I think I deserve that. If that were to somehow occur, would I return to WoV? I honestly don't know. Sometimes I think I would like to return. Sometimes, I think I could never again be comfortable there. I would really have to do some thinking on it, but I don't cross a bridge before I have come to it.

And yes, I am well are of what Mike said about me. And by the way, Mike's (or anyone's) views on Christmas, or whether they celebrate Christmas are irrelevant to me. I celebrate Christmas and at that time of year, like to wish others well and wish them success happiness and health in the coming year. It isn't based on religion or whether someone feels Christmas is too commercialized and mocks it. That is their issue. I celebrate Christmas and wish people joy at that time.

 

KewlJ, I'm not sure how it would work but have you thought about going over Shackleford's head? I get the feeling that the owners are hands off but there must be a way for you to contact them. Through an intermediary perhaps? Or you could always join LCB. Okay, that was mostly in jest.

 

I don't take much personally. Its just a forum conversation. He keeps in good shape for his age, that's something to be proud of IMO. He may not be in the entertainment business, but promoting himself with you-tube videos or whatever cant hurt. If I had/ran a Website and was in the public eye I would probably do the same thing. If I was him I would be doing more self promoting and videos.

 

I did exactly that last spring. Registered an account with LCB, just to send Zuga a message. Zuga responded that he was not familiar with the situation, which was hard to believe as that was the number one topic for quite a while at WoV. He said he would discuss it with Mike and get back to me. What to guess what his decision was?

But you know what, I wouldn't even want to go back that way. Mike still basically runs that site. And Mike is an AP (I know some debate this) and a member of the AP community. I am a professional (....larry?) blackjack player and member of the AP community. This dispute isn't even about the rules of WoV being broken, like many bannings are about. As much as I respect and admire Mickey, he broke the forum rules....numerous times. I wish there was a creative way around that, that would allow everyone to benefit from him, but he did break the rules as did most others that were banned. Some have a legit case, but most broke the rules.

I don't feel I did, nor do I feel my situation is about breaking the rules. MY SITUATION was nothing more than a difference of opinion by two members of the AP community (norm is a member of the AP community, just not a practical contributing member of WOV). Mike inexplicably chose to side with one of those members over the other. He really didn't even know the ins and outs of the feud or arguments. He just chose to side with someone he considered a friend (also debatable) over a regular contributing member.

 

All while climbing a rope? No wonder things didn't go well.

 

just because someone declares "hate" doesnt make it so. Just as if someone uses a suspension board and declares it to cause shame...or somone declaring they are a professiona

 

On GG you said that "munchkins" are the kind of people that need a male figure of authority to follow. So you have a personal affection for those types of people because as a kid you admired that type of situation in the production?Some would view those folks as misogynistic, you know...needing specifically a male figure, as if women dont cut it. Personal affection for people dismissive to women??? Cool

On GG you affectionately called Wov'ers Jackals.....most likely as a kid you fondly remembered doing a book report on this noble member of the animal kingdom

On GG you affectionately called Wov'ers koolaide drinkers////...most likely because after rehearsals of that production, there was a nice big cup of koolaide waiting for you off stage

And you called Manboyds cup waiving to be "unmanly".....fondly remembering a member of the cast of the prodiction.....maybe the good witch....she was unmanly.

Its all out of fondness or "personal affection"

if its fondness you are feeling...why not feel free to use those words over on WOV....you are a member in good standing.....seems odd to use them on other sites.....if you can explain the "personal affection" angle to it all....... the wov'ers love to be loved.

 

We are all flawed. Maybe I have a need to "argue and insult others" in your mind.

And Maybe I find your continued posts here on the topic of WOV to be cowardly. Afterall the above post violates no WOV rules and could have been posted there for you to get a back and forth from people that are involved. But you dont want that. You would rather state the above from a safe distance as you realize that people are also banned for content....for being on the wrong side of an issue at wov.
You want to critique wov without consequences. Throw stones from a distance at the Jackals, munchkins, unmanly wiz, and koolaide drinkers.

so you think I have a 'need" to argue and insult others....and that is your opinion. And I have the opinion that you are a chameleon /eddie Haskell/ fence sitting cowardly hypocrite. We all have our opinions. You are entitled to yours and I am entitled to mine.

Thats what this board is all about

the expression of opinions and facts to back them up

 

WTF are you blabbering about?

I never used the word "affection."

I used the word "affectation."

As my anti-hero, Albert Camus once penned: "A handful of salt fills the mouth of the garrulous slave."

 

my error, replace affection with affectation and everything else still stays,

i do admit errors.

but this error does not change a thing. I still stand by the content surrounding the word error.

Unlike your error stating that I claimed manboy doesnt care.....when the post was mostly about axhole.

 

Oh, go jump in the lake.

I have posted at WoV about how I disliked MS doing the tin cup routine.

I suspect you're just pissed at me because unlike you I haven't been nuked: yet.

I post the way I feel and believe; nothing I've posted at WoV is a falsehood; I merely know where the line is drawn: you know, the line past which one gets nuked.

I am free to comment here in such a manner which might cause me to be suspended or nuked at WoV; heck MS his own self, IIRC, said no discipline would be taken against WoV members for what they say on other sites, and I hold him to that.

But then again I have no deep dislike for him, or the mods, or the members of the board, unlike you.

I've said before I have my feet in both worlds: yeah, that pisses you off royally.