Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Maybe they do, I don't recall where I ever said fewer posters is better than more posters. I said that some posters are a net negative.

 

that attitude would put most brick and mortar business out of business.

I grew up in my fathers furniture store. And every now and then someone moved into anew house and bought 4 rooms of furniture. But the bread and butter of the business was the person who came i needing a lamp, or a mattress, or a reclining chair. And all those people got great customer service too. Because we knoew they had the potential to buy more i the future and even tell friends.
We did not have a multi-layered customer servicer program based on "value"

Same goes in the pharmacy business. EVERYONE gets the same basic level of customer service....which is very good. Would I make favorable decisions for a person who is elderly and gets 10 prescriptions each month....like maybe personally go to another pharmacy to pick up the med that we ran out of and deliver it to her home during myy lunch break, instead of making her wait till the next day. But that is above and beyond the excellet customer service everyoe else got. Women with annoying crying babies, smelly drug addicts picking up their methadone,....all actually got better customer service because I tried to ruch their order through to get them out ASAP.

However basing customer service on perceived value....if they buy a pack of gum, or pay cash for a 2000 dollar Rx......they all geta smile and a thank you and a "did you find everything you were looking for"...etc. Because you know....the person buying the stick of gum.......may like that experience and transer all her prescriptions to me from the competetor.

Like I said...people with self respect expect proper customer service for themselves and directed at their neighbors. Its uncomfortable to see your neighbors mistreated in an establishment even though you personally are treated fine.

Ok I will go with this example.

My eforcement of the rule wll depend on if its a man or woman....ok kidding

If I point to the sign and the person become abusive verbally, I do what you said....tell them not to come back or I am calling the police now or in the future.

But if he states "I dont see the reason for this....blah blah blah"

I could say.....well thats the rules so dont let the door hit you in the ass...

i could say....I see your point,however.well we sometime shave proken glass on the floor from customer accident that we dont know about, and the bottoms of the metal endcaps have shapr edges so if you stubb your toe it might cut open and bleed, The metal sheves dont have sanded edges so if you rub againt one you skin may need medical attention and because of this, in order to keep my insurance rates down and keep prices stable I require these rules

in one case the reasonable person is treated as a valued customer..in the other case he is treat like shit with a :how dare you question my rules" attitude/...WHICH EXISTS ON WOV

And as i was taking your post to me in pieces I just saw your request....I already told you I would eliminate BW from my vocabulary here a few pages back .......but no.....you dont dictate the terms.....you are not in munchkinland anymore.

 

Mission, appreciate your help on Stadium Blackjack. But I am never strong on analogies. My attitude is "stick to the subject at hand". When you start comparing smoking crack in a hotel hallway to posting on a forum, I wonder what you are smoking. HaHa

 

well that sums it up. AS i stated,before you dont view the posters a customers who deserve to receive excellent cutomer service as would be the goal of every successful business.
You have been given your marching orders as enforcers.....as unquestionable authority.........and you love that. Thats what keeps you going.

Maybe 6 moths or 9months ago MR V nicely suggested that manboy would take a break from the policing duties and spend his time with articles and such in other parts of the the site. And he gave his observations and reasons.

The response from BBB was...thats garbage.
And thats what you would expect from a person who is full of herself and her position of authority.

That why people walk on eggshells over there.

They are viewed more a jailed people who are kept in line by the jail police....rather than valued customers that should have their customer complaints heard, valued and responded to in a calm respectful manner

Would BBB ever be caught dead saying...MrV, I value your comments, but in this case I think you are off base...and here is why. From a pure enforcer I guess that would seem out of character.

But that is the root cause of what this thread is all about,

The people in green are happy to be enforcers with a dont let the door hit you in the ass attitude that is perpetrated by their boss over the years. Workers tend to take on the demeaner and personality of their boss. So the "How dare you question mike" How dare you question my decision" permeates the culture
The other mods see their boss has the attitude that its a feel good thing to punish people.....as he stated punishing people when one is merely in a bad mood is good for the psyche. All this rubs off on the people in green.....giving them a heightened sense of authority, and a entitlement to treat people like leeches who take take take......who should be beholden to mike/zuga/mods for allowing them to live another day on the site.
This culture does not come into being over night....it evolves...and has evolved......and continues to evolve.with policing being the main goal of the mods. With zero customer service outlets available to the customers.

Oh yeah...people can complain to zuga....and he just has said from posts here...that he backs manboy and his mods.

So you have a business with a bunch of police and no outlet for customer service issues. If a mod makes fun of you and tells you that you are the weakest link.....nothing you can do. If a top mod tells you dont let the door hit you in the ass.....nothing you can do. I f a mod gloats that he suspends people when he is in a bad mood, good luck with that disrespect.....where people are like ants where you can take a magnifying glass and zap them under the sun.......because it makes you feel so good. To the manboy, the posters/customers are ants that can be zapped at will as a salve to his brain.
All this is allowed, and the mods feed off of this. Behavior can be learned...and over th years the behavior has been cultivated t obe disrespecting to customers.

I CANT imagine someone going to customer service dept of any business, and calmly complaining to them about an experience they had with the store manager and offering a suggestion.....and being told tha t what they said was "garbage". But at wov, calm suggestions can be handled by mods in just that manner. They are just police....they have no ability or need or want to smooth things over and make people feel valued. Thery dont have to say...."thanks for the concern, thanks for your opinion,.......But they do say.....stop that comment, stand down, I am ending this thread if it keeps up.

Heck, there was a thread on wov, called wov is dying.....and on the last page..RONC stated that he felt that people on the wrong side of political issues received preferential treatment by the mods in their policing duties.
Ron C is not a trouble maker. But the thread was soon closed thereafter. Now THATs fine policing.
But an open exchange by the mods and customers was not allowed to occur.
Because the "how dare you: police state culture exists.

So you admit it...you are just police...and ther eis no customer service venue for your customers to partake in.

As long as you are just police, and you have vague suspendible monikers to attach to perople like troll, hijacker,insulter....and those monikers are attached to people in unfair ways(according to RonC.....political leaning is one unfair way)..,,then there is fue forthis thread.

 

Isnt it about 28 months since thesale? Not one month.
I would think enough time has gone by to prove the concept of profitability.

you dont pay to keep something around for 28 months if its draining money from your operation.

Zuga has no huggy feely past memories with the message board....its purly a part of a business. It would be very easy to close down overnight.
redirect that prtion of manboys salary to other areas of the websites......eliminate the behind the scenes programing/maintanence cost of maintaining the board. Yest after 28 months he is paying that money. Either he is stupid, or his numbers tell him to keepit going.

Yes missiion...I dont have access to the numbers, and you dont....but the eye test tells us that the message board is a favorable financial piece.

you work for a profit making company for free because you get some enjoyment
Posters/customers partake in the services offered by a profit making comany, while offering their services of time and effort in exchanfe for enjoyment

the customers and the mods both help make profits forthe company in the process.
In a brick and mortar store I offer cash, in exchange for a product...and the company provides the platform for me to make that exchange.
At wov....I offer time and effort in exchange for enjoyment.......and the comany provides the platform

butin your mind you are just police, and there is a good chance that the board is just potentially profitable like a one mont old resteraunt.

its hard to debate that mindset

 

that is subjective

and all you have to do is label them troll, hijacker, insulter, or just nuke them without a reason escept for "we all know why"

as strictly police....you have that mandate

 

Now you are just talking out of both sides of your mouth

You talk about appearance, and the mods keeping the site "clean" for everyone including appearance to lurkers and non members.
Yet its ok for lurkers to see that line directed at a customer/contrubuter/[poster? You think seeing that maes a lurker want to join.

What about the rule that its ok to insult non members.
Does a newbie lurker have a scorecard? Who is active who is banned?

Or is the "appearance" you talk about tarnished when insults are allowed toward non members

The obvious answer is YES appearance is tarnished with the insult rule exception and with behaviors of mods who think "dont let the door hit you" or "i suspend people to help me out of bad moods" "you are the weakest link" "your comment is garbage".
Because you have the "i am only the police" attitude

 

Freddy, DONT BE DUMB(not calling you dumb, its just and expression)

MIKE DIDN'T SEND ANYONE HERE TO DISRUPT THIS FORUM. I don't think even you believe that.

I have hung out with Mike many times and he has not even mentioned this forum. The last thing he is worried about is this forum. From my understanding he has told people on WOV who dont like him, or the way he runs WOV, that there is a forum dedicated to ranting about him and WOV and feel free to leave and use it.

 

Ah, so you do read my posts. Thanks. What's Mike really like? Do we have the wrong impression of him? Or are we so dead on that it's scary?

 

That's fine, if you want to explain to idiots who enter convenience stores shirtless why they should wear a shirt in there, you can go ahead and do that. I'm going to say, "Then come back when you do see a reason for it."

I also sold furniture, totally different than running an economy hotel. I could give you a list of no fewer than 100 ridiculous items I have seen happen in a hotel that I did not ever see in a furniture store.

 

No, what keeps me going is continuing to have a hand in producing/maintaining the best gambling forum on the Internet.

I also do customer service related stuff, I'm saying that is not my primary function as an Administrator. I wear many hats. I'm an Administrator, I'm a Member/Poster, I'm a Helper (trying to get information for people) and I'm probably a few other things depending on whatever I am doing at the time.

Also, someone suggested a new Sub-Forum for Food/Beverage, and created a thread doing so. I took the question to the other Admins, we decided to do it, and that Sub-Forum is going to be created shortly. I guess that is what you might call customer service.

I'm just saying my main job as an Administrator is to enforce the Rules.

Why do so many people here expect me to answer for what other people say? If you want an answer for what BBB said, then go ask BBB, except you're Nuked, so you would have to find some other way to contact her.

You guys might have even have the opportunity to have asked her here, but she doesn't want to be here, for obvious reasons.

I don't know what she might or might not say, I cannot read her mind.

I have no goal of policing people. I don't do it very much and would like to do it even less. I would like all Rules to be followed, then I would not need to police people. I don't care if people question me or not. You guys, who I am not in any way accountable to, question me here and I answer you.

I only say the weakest link thing to Nuked people. I'm not answering for anything else up there because I haven't said any of those other things that I am aware of.

I have said some 1,465,278 times that I do not generally read political threads. I do not care what the political viewpoints of the members are. I would prefer that there was no discussion of politics at WoV unless it somehow pertains to gambling.

 

I do not have access to the financials. I have said that WoV consistently lost small amounts of money when Wizard owned it. I have said that WoV could independently lose money, but still be an indirect revenue stream for WoO. I suggest that they may look at the two things as one unit, but do not know.

Besides, WoV may be profitable now. I don't know how you equate my saying, "I wouldn't know," to me saying, "It's not."

Okay, let's assume you're right:

It wasn't making money, now it is. Ergo, not dying.

/thread

I have yet to see anyone accuse you of being an easy person to debate.

 

Why so many, 'You,' statements? I do not recall Nuking someone and giving a reason of, "We all know why," so I cannot answer to that.

Trolling, Hijacking and Insulting are all words that have meaning, either people commit actions that those words could be used to describe or they do not. The question is not whether the words rightfully describe an action, the question is whether or not they describe the actions taken by the person being accused of doing those things.

 

That's why I speak of pervasiveness. If someone were to create a hypothetical, "LarryS is an asshole," thread, then there is a very strong probability I would Lock that thread. If someone were to attack a former Member pervasively and over several posts, then I would ask them to stop. My interpretation of the Rule on insulting Non-Members is that public figures could be insulted, and if someone makes a one-off insult against a former (Nuked) Member, then that is probably fine.

There are Rules. I enforce them. Either Insulting Non-Members is strictly prohibited by the Rules or it is not. It is not. Therefore, there is no action I am required to take on insults against Non-Members, but I will sometimes decide to take action if I decide it violates a different rule.

 

That "someone" was me.

I was, quite frankly, very surprised that a site called "Wizard of Vegas" did not have a forum for dining.

Hell, it's one of the big four reasons people go there: gambling, shows, dining, debauchery.

 

Forum owners are caught between free speech and trolls taking over the site.

 

Subjective meaning, not specific meaning.

There have been threads that have been hyjacked by BBB, other mods, favorable looked upon members...where nothing not only was done dine as far as punishment....but nothing was SAID...as far as "cone on stop the hijacking guys"

What is the number of posts on a topic that turns it into "trolling". It seems to depend on what side of the issue one is on, and if that side annoys the offended person.

those words have "meaning" in the eyes of the beholder.

They have different meaning depending on what political bent you are leaning on....just as Ron C....he said it on WOV. I say it....and others think it.

The closest thing to a "customer service" piece of wov, could have been"discussion of te suspension list"... However that thread fuels the suspension list. Instead of having that as a place for people to blow off steam and get the opinion from the mods on their actions...it became a "hgoae dare you question us" type board....with suspensions hoveringover everyoes heads in case they were too persistent in their questionings and comments.

If someone was engaged in conversation with others going back and forth, while being on the wrong side of an issue.....its safe to say a suspension was on the way. I am the simple proof of that. 3 posts on a topic engaged with another member.....and out the door.

So thats the customer service people can expect over there. And thats what the board is about.

And just because the new owners turned a losing board into a profitable board doesnt mean the message board isnt dying. Just because manboy was proven to be a poor businessman and zuga and his workers got off their ass and aggressively worked out deals with online casinos...doesnt mean the message board is thriving over the years.

 

Its impossible to prove but I will submit this based on my experienceof a few years at WOV.

In the old days before I was banned. If I were to go to the suspension list thread, and post a list of 4 or 5 items that I felt manboy should consider changing in the way he ran that site......and I got into a back an forth with people who either debated the issue or told me "its mikes place he can do what he wants" or "if you dont like it you can leave" or BBB telling me its all Garbage like she did with MrV,

and I kept debating and clarifying my issues, while at the same time winning the argument.......I would be a troll....and I would be gone.

The police on that message board cannot handle a sustained winning back and forth by someone on the wrong side of an issue

the "HOW DARE YOU question authority", "its mikes place so fuck off:...you are just a leech that offers nothing to this board", or "wov..love it or leave it" "dont let the door hit you as I suspend you, the weakest link".......takes over as a poster with an unpopular opinion starts to get traction.

and this happens because all the board has is POLICE. No customer service agents. No one with any directive to make sure the customers are happy. Just to make sure that they are doled out punishment.

this leads to a toxic environment...

not just in wov...but in any business.

I know I knOW...YOUR ANSWER IS...."i am just the police and I dont have control over any of that"

And as every mod recites that mantra.....the board suffers.

 

It was a good suggestion, sorry about not looking back and seeing it was you who originally suggested it. I'm actually a little surprised, someone other than you is more active in that thread.

 

There is no hard number because it also depends on the Topic of the thread, the subject matter of the, 'Trolling,' posts (are they at least arguably somewhat on Topic?) how pervasive and lengthy the Trolling posts are.

I think that if you were to go back and look at my history in Administrating the site, you'll find that I don't toss out bans for Trolling in any way that I would consider frequent. I did recently, but when I do, it's usually tied to something else. In this case it wasn't, but I think in the most recent case it would be extremely difficult to make an argument that the thread wasn't Trolling.

I can't remember the last time a Suspension has come to pass as a result of something said in that thread.

Also, I don't care about the politics of the Members and I don't mind being questioned.

Well, I guess we'll see.