Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I appreciate this reply, Fisk. I guess I am just not aware that "EVERYONE" (as you phrase it) spoke up on my behalf. If that's the case, I guess there is nothing more that I can ask of you.

But I am sort of glad that we got to this point and you publicly posted this. If so many people spoke up, oppose to Mike's handling of the situation meant nothing to Mike, I guess that just highlights how unreasonable he was and continues to be on this matter. I thought he was just being unreasonable with me, but this shows just how unreasonable he is all around. It also clearly shows how little he values your opinion and the opinion of all these other people that spoke up. That he places no value on the over-whelming opinion of his moderators, AP's, WoV members, and friends (boys club) is really a shame. It is really a very sad situation. And it speaks volumns of who Michael Shckleford really is.

The more I learn of Michael Shackleford and this situation and how he treats other people, the more disappointed I become that he is not the person I thought he was. I really though him to be a man of much more character and integrity than he has demonstrated.

Shacklford may not have much integrity, but he has Qfit. A guy who showed up after 5 years to 'play' and 'use' Mike. And let's be clear when I say he showed up after 5 years, it's not that he didn't know about the site and became a new member. This guy participated at the beginning of the site, in 2010, and then made the decision that he did not want to participate or contribute for more than 5 years, until he showed up demanding that Mike silence a regular contributing member. And having "used" Mike in this manner to achieved this goal.... Qfit has disappeared once again, contributing nothing.

So Mike may not have much character and integrity or respect for his moderators, members, AP's, and friends, all of who contributed to the succeed of WoV, but he still has Qfit....or at least has Qfit's hand up his ass, working him like a puppet.

 

KJ, I told you that If you want to have a face to face dinner/lunch with Mike he was ok with that, as long as it was a civil meeting, perhaps with a mediator/witnesses.

I have always found much much more success solving issues or getting a better sense and understanding in person especially when I can look the person in the face.

Its also better since there is no time to craft a the perfect response when asked or asking a question.

Normally I say go with your gut and initial instinct, but I can think of a few times where I didn't really like the way someone came off online, but after meeting up and really talking with them I realized where they were coming from and understood them better and I changed my mind about them.

Question: Lets say Mike said, Yes I was wrong, I should not have got involved and KJ shouldn't have been suspended or banned in the first place, I shouldn't have sided with norm. But aside from all that, we still have the matter of what KJ said and did after that. It went way over the top. For that reason I am leaving the ban in place.

Then what?

 

"the matter of what KJ said and did after that"? What?

"Way over the top"? That's a matter of opinion. EVERYTHING that was said and occurred, stemmed from the single fact that Mike mishandled this situation. I don't acknowledge that I was "way over the top", or crossed a line. I think recently I suggested I came right up to the line.

I might remind you that you very recently told me that Mike doesn't really care about the "what KJ said after that" and that "he was not concerned with an apology to him". Your exactly words were " Mike didn't have a problem with you (KJ).

So bringing up this scenario now, contradicting these previous statements, makes it seem as though you or Mike are now looking for a reason to justify continuing an unjust ban. Don't stoop to that level.

Furthermore, anything I said here, is not supposed to even be considered! When Mike banned me, he quoted WoV policy "That normally we don't consider things said on other forums......but, I am banning KJ for something said on another forum. Now you are indicating that he again wants to violate his own policy. It appears that when it comes to me, he makes up and changes the rules as he goes. Why is that? Maybe because as a WoV member, I didn't break any rules at WoV to justify any of this.

And finally...Why would Mike care about what I posted here? He himself directed me here to attack and criticize him. His exact words were that there is a site dedicated to attacking and criticizing him that I should join. So, like a good WoV munchkin...I did just as the Great an powerful Oz told me to. Your Welcome Wizard.

 

Henry Tamburin spent a few hours checking out Stadium Blackjack, Talked to dealers, got different version on how the game is dealt ? Talked to two mangers, no idea how the game is dealt. He's gonna hit Roger or somebody at Bally's to get to the bottom of this. I am sure he will be more capable than I was with, Roger, Elliot, Bally's and OMG even Mission 146

 

That's true, I don't seem to get E-Mails regarding a new PM here, although, I may have just missed the E-Mail and thought it was telling me there was a new post here. I wasn't on this site for a few days, I admit that, but it's not like I logged in and didn't respond to your PM.

I also completely 100% deny your allegation (see PM) and would like an apology. Public or private is fine. You know what you said that asks for an apology (in PM) and it was not the allegation itself.

Nothing anybody says or does will result in you being unbanned, so that's my response to that.

 

To someone two decades younger than him in peak physical condition. That'd be like someone who was a college basketball player twenty years ago dropping a game of horse to someone who currently is a college basketball player. Put anyone else Wizard's age against him and they'd get smoked nine out of ten times, if not more.

I said it was fiction before I'd even posted it. You're like a comedian who hasn't come up with new material in the last three decades, it's no wonder I didn't bother visiting here for a week.

Yes, because my zero posts between July and December and perhaps one visit speaks to my near-obsession with this forum.

I'd like to hope she does nothing to warrant Suspension.

 

If you're referring to what I think you may be referring to, you were also wrong.

 

I thought we covered this privately.

For those that don't know what is being discussed, there was a post made at WoV on my behalf. I can honestly say I don't even know the handle of the poster, as this post was deleted before I saw it. But I was informed about it. It was asking a couple questions that I think are very relevant now a year later. "Where is Qfit?" "What has he contributed to WoV in the last year?" I posted these questions here and I am glad someone followed up and posted there.

So not only was the poster banned, but the post removed. I was informed that Mission was the only mod online at the time, and assumed he was responsible, but later realized that it could have been a hidden mod who hides their status. BBB does this. Could have also been a "secret mod". I acknowledged this to Mission in our private discussion and he thanked me for acknowledging it, but apparently wants more, so I take you at your word that it wasn't you mission and apologize for assuming it was.

 

Apology accepted. Quite frankly, it was the, "Lost all respect..." statement that peeved me off a little bit. I didn't realize that the amount of respect you already had for me was so low because my first thought was, "Well, that didn't take much, even if the allegation were true."

 

Awww Come on KewlJ, I am not bashful. I posted it. Mission, all I was trying to say was that Mike is Kewlj's problem, not yours. Sorry for all the confusion. Struggling with dying the death of a 1,000 cuts currently. NO, I don't feel like explaining, not yet!

 

If you don't think saying something like, "I'm 20 years younger than you, and anywhere I go, with everyone I see, I will spread the word you're a dishonest this, that, and the other, which means even after you're gone, I'll be spreading this information to everyone I know" is over the top, then I don't know what to say. But to expect to be taken seriously after that, I think, is beyond ridiculous.

I think the "what KJ said after that" is about one of the last PM's you sent to Mike, AKA: "The F U"

Quit it with all this bullshit. You know what you're saying isn't true, at least not what you're implying. I don't think Mike cries himself to sleep every night over this "KJ vs Mike" feud like you do. You didn't get suspended/banned from WOV because you said bad things about Mike, but because you posted the contents of a private message. If you can't distinguish the difference, then I really don't know what to say.

I don't think he cares what you write about him here. But if your end goal is to get unbanned at WOV and return, whatever you're posting here certainly isn't helping your case. Then again, I doubt he even reads this forum, at least with any regularity. If you don't care about returning to WOV and just want to talk shit about Mike, then he was right about you -- and was right to keep you banned.

Last but not least:

 

The old donkey and the carrot trick. "KJ, you got fucked over but if you would have kept your mouth shut about it you had a chance to be reinstated. And if you keep your mouth shut from here on out you might one day get a chance to be reinstated." Bullshit. Shack never had any intention of reinstating him. He just tryed to save a little face with his WoV minions. KJ is the victim, not the perpetrator. It's time for this "blame the victim" bullshit to end.

 

I definitely appreciate that sentiment, thanks.

 

I basically both agree and disagree with that. The simple fact of the matter is that certain things happened and were said that resulted in a causal chain that led to this moment and KewlJ posting here. Regardless of whether or not one believes the situation was initially mishandled, there are other events in the causal chain that would have potentially led to a result other than where we are at now.

In any event, Wizard has stated that there are only two people who are, "Dead to him," at least as far as the Forum is concerned and one of them is KewlJ. My guess, based on that statement, is not that KewlJ might get a chance to be reinstated if he says nothing negative about Wizard henceforward. Taking, "Dead to me," at face value, my guess is that KewlJ has no opportunity to be reinstated.

If KewlJ really wanted to throw a Hail Mary, then he could always pop in at a WoVCON, though I do understand why KewlJ also might not want to be known (physically) among the other members. I'm also not actually suggesting that KewlJ do that as I don't know how that would go down. I'm just saying that, based on what he has said, KewlJ has exhausted every other possible avenue.

Although, I have to believe that KewlJ's disparaging of Wizard probably doesn't help, although, I'm not certain if Wizard is even aware of what is said over here. If he is, then he has never mentioned anything about it to me. Maybe a face-to-face would make a difference and maybe it wouldn't. Although, I will say that if it is at a public venue that Wizard has already stated he would be at on a particular day and at a particular time, then I would be shocked if Wizard was anything but cordial about the matter. I don't think KewlJ randomly showing up at his house would go very well, but that's just a guess.

 

This is just NOT TRUE, RS.

Here is the post which I made at Zenzone, for which I was banned at WoV in it's entirety.

I have just learned a very disturbing thing about Norm.

For those that may not know, the feud between Norm and myself has spilled over onto several sites. As discussed earlier in this thread, one of those sites was Wizard of Vegas, where I have been a contributing member for 4 plus years. Norm has been a member for 6 years, but did not participate for the last 5 years and nine months of that period until he showed up just to troll me. So in reality the feud didn't so much as "spill over" as Norm specifically took it there trolling me.

So the end result of several days of the feud spilling on to that site was that I was suspended twice, Norm once and I have decided not to continue to participate there. So Norm, won yet again. The freedom of speech guys managed to silence me on yet another site.

But here's the disturbing part. I have just learned that Norm sent 19....NINETEEN, PM's in a 24 hour period to Mike Shackleford, begging for my suspensions. He even leaned on his longtime professional friendship with Shackleford in these numerous PM's. Although I am trying to refrain from personal attacks....there is seriously something wrong with this guy (Norm). He is a really sick dude.

Where did I reveal the contents of a private message from Mike?

Shackleford had told me privately some time prior to this (and this is a direct quote) "Norm wrote me several times demanding that I take action. He was enraged that I didn't".

So if I had posted something like Shacklford told me privately that Norm PMed him 'several' times and revealed that this information came from Mike himself, then yes, that would have been posting the contents of a private message. But that is NOT what happened and NOT what I posted. Nor did I reveal that this information came from Shackleford. Know why? Because what I posted didn't come from Shackleford.

What I posted "that Norm had sent Mike 19...Nineteen, PM's in a 24 hour period" did not come from Shackeford. It came two other people. One a moderator at WoV and one a poster on this site and WoV, who claims to be a close friend of Mike's. These two people told me the exact same information. One said Norm had contacted Mike '19 times' within a 24 hour period and the other said '20 times'. So I poste the lesser number of those two sources that gave me a number.

So IF I violated the contents of a private message, it was with these two other people NOT with Shackleford. BUT I don't believe I violated anything. In order to violate the contents of a private message you have to 'out' the person, saying so-and-so told me "blah, blah, blah". I didn't do that I didn't reveal any names, Mike's or the other two parties. I just stated information that had been told me by numerous sources.

And clearly with one source saying "19 times" and the second source saying "20 times" and Shackleford himself saying "several" times....in a 24 hour period, the important thing being lost is confirmation that Norm was using his influence or what I call "bullying" Mike to try to get me banned and silenced.

This is like having a witness describe someone shooting another person and then disqualifying his testimony because he said the assailant pulled the trigger with his index finger when in fact he had pulled the trigger with his middle finger.

The important fact here is what I have been saying all along. Norm came to WoV with the sole intent to use his influence and "use" and "bully" Mike to silence someone that had a negative opinion of Norm's site and the little 'voodoo' crew that dominate that site and mislead newer players. The corroborating evidence here is that Norm contacted Mike numerous times within a 24 hour period demanding that I be banned.

And let me ask you this: Suppose I had said Norm contacted Mike "several" times and I had outed Mike in saying Mike told me that Norm contacted him several times in a 24 hour period demanding that he ban me?

I didn't say that, but suppose I had. Why would Mike be so upset about that? Why would Mike become angry when the truth, something he himself said, was revealed? Why was he working so hard to cover up and protect Norm? And why does it continue to this day...a year later, with Norm having contributed NOTHING since achieving his goal. Isn't it time for Mike to come clean, tell the truth and admit....yeah Norm used Mike to have someone silenced. Plain and simple.

 

Ya know Mickey, I could have avoided all of this long before it ever got to WoV, if I had just "kept my mouth shut". That's basically what this is all about, from way back on Qfit's "voodoo blackjack forum". Qfit decided he didn't want myself and two other professional players challenging the fraudulent, misleading claims of a bullshit artist (who just happens to be the post leader on that site by about 10,000 posts). Qfit tried to bully the 3 of us into just being quiet. He suspended Bjarg, (who occasionally visits here) an international professional blackjack player and team organizer/manager. He suspended and banned me. And the third professional player of several decade, who would rather I not refer to him by handle, was just driven away. Just so this phony bullshit artist (and post leader) could have his platform to mislead newer player.

I can't explain what Qfit was thinking. Qfit is a math guy who knows these claims were phony, misleading and bullshit. The only thing I can come up with is in these current times of online casino organizations throwing millions at these gambling sites, Qfit saw dollar signs instead of being the helpful advocate to the blackjack community that he had always been. He sold out the BJ community in hopes of dollar signs, which he has not yet (to my knowledge) benefited from.

He will email me denying this, but it doesn't even matter. The fact is that professional and knowledgeable players have a right....even a responsibility to call out bullshit claims. Especially bullshit claims that are misleading newer players. One every AP forum, professional and knowledgeable players have this right and I believe responsibility. I have seen you shoot down bullshit claims, Mickey. At WoV, nobody does this more than Axelwolf. It is our right and responsibility.

I take that responsibility seriously. I would not simply "keep my mouth shut" then, and now years later and having been trolled to other sites like WoV, I will not "keep my mouth shut" now.

It's been 2 years for me since this all started. I have been banned at 2 AP sites, Qfit's and WoV where he trolled me demanding that Shackleford ban me. My name and reputation tarnished. At Qfit's site, although I am banned and have no way to respond, I am still periodically attacked by membership.

I am a professional AP, with over a million dollars in total AP earnings, about 800k from blackjack, which is what I really consider myself... a professional blackjack player...and I am unwelcome to participate and share my experiences at two of the top blackjack and AP related forums, simply because "I would not keep my mouth shut". And I am not going to start now.

 

I knew there was something up with Shack a long time ago. If you go to the blackjack section of WOO, under "effects of rules variations" and go to the "longer list of rules variations" you will find a rule that says "dealer must stop with six cards." That rule has been on his site for about 15 years now. How did it get there?

Back in those days I was playing a lot of the IGT full pay video blackjack (100%) on cashback promotions. One of the rules was "dealer stands on six cards." This was the only rule I couldn't assign a value to. There was absolutely nothing online about the rule, not even on Shack's site. He had an "Ask the Wizard" feature so I decided to ask him about the rule. There were hoops to jump though to submit a question. I filled out the field but made a mistake on something. I got a very rude auto message telling me just how stupid I was. Since it was an auto response I knew that anyone else making a mistake would get the same treatment.

I corrected the mistake then thoroughly explained to him how this rule worked in the video blackjack game. I then asked him if this rule was in favor of the dealer or the player. I signed off as "Mickey in Reno." A couple of weeks later, in his Ask the Wizard column, Shack wrote: "Mickey in Reno wants to know what the payback is in video keno. The answer is it depends on the rules." That was not even close to the question I asked him.

Then a couple of weeks later "dealer must stop with six cards" appeared in his "effects of rules variations" list. And that is how that rule got on his site. It was obvious to me that he had never heard of the rule before but used what I sent him to analyze it and put it up on his site. He made up a phony bullshit question that I never asked then took all the credit for exposing the rule to the public.

 

I thought of this briefly. Not my style. Despite the way this has all played out, I am really not about trying to make other people uncomfortable, including Michael. I just want to be treated fairly and I haven't been since Qfit showed up at WoV on Dec 31, 2015 after being away for 5 year and 9 months.

I gave 4+ years to WoV, sharing my experiences, trying to positively contribute and the second Qfit showed up with one agenda only....to have me silenced, I was subject to phony truce agreement forced upon me, (which Mike admitted was done to favor Qfit), phony suspensions for breaking phony truce agreement and finally a banning for reasons that were phony....privacy violation, (which I explained above was not true), on a site not related to WoV, which is supposed to not be considered according to Mike's own policy. Mike forced phony agreements on me, and changed rules along the way, just to accommodate Qfit's demands. Plain and simple....I deserve better than this.

Yes, Mike posted that. People post things they later regret......I know that I do. And circumstances change. You don't hold anyone to something like that. You may or may not know that after Mike posted that, there were discussion between Mike, I and a third party. Pretty positive discussions, I must say. Well right up until I was informed that I would need to apologize to Qfit for things said on another forum (neither WoV or this forum). That was a deal breaker for me. I will not have Michael Shackleford tell me what I can and cannot post on sites other than his own. His authority extends only to WoV. I don't know who he thinks he is.

While I regret some things I have said during this whole ordeal, almost nothing concerning Qfit. This dirty, smelly rat, with an aversion to soap and bathing (so I have heard), is a lying manipulative evil person. Remember that line from the end of the movie hangover, where Stu finally confronts his control-freak, manipulating girlfriend? He says "you're just a bad person...right through to your core". That's Norm. Michael may allow Norm to manipulate, bully and "play" him. I won't.

 

Mission 146, the other dead to Mike person on WOV is Statman, who may or may not still be alive. I was the reason he threatened to sue Mike . Trust me, I can not be sued. Oh, you can win, but you can not collect. I got that rat taken care of, trust me !
All I can HONESTLY judge Mike by is how he treated me, no complaints whatever. I give him credit for quitting a "can not be fired job" ( SSA) and trying his luck in Vegas. As for Zuga, just another loser who was born on third base, and thinks he hit a triple. Just wish he would come to Vegas one day so we could have a conversation. This site now my main escape from a nightmare.

 

I can't say that I, 'Know,' anything in this regard, which is to say that I don't know that Wizard would be uncomfortable. I really think that would kind of depend on how you approached the thing, as it would with anyone. I try to be something of a peacemaker, as it were, and I would think you guys would be able to at least regain a little bit of the respect you had for one another with a face-to-face. That could be wishful thinking, though.

Again, I want to reiterate that I am not encouraging you to do that. I just pointed out it would be a Hail Mary.

While I have no reason to doubt you, I have no direct knowledge of anything in the above paragraph and cannot speak to any of it.

I've spoken to that matter already as far as his dealings with you on WoV were concerned. Beyond that, I know almost nothing about him, to be honest.