Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Mission
I will say this now since I may not be able to do so here tomorrow. You never know.

I always critiqued people at Wov here(and still do) because it seems a critique of a policy and or an admin over there would lead more easily to a suspension rather than a back and forth exchange.
However to your credit you did and do come here and address things. Sometimes I got an answer easily, and sometimes its like pulling teeth...but eventually I did get answers to my comments about you and my treatment and treatment of others at wov. You are clear that you dont speak for others and that is fair. Same with Face...although I had no issue with him as much as others...he still came here and had a good healthy exchange.

So since you addressed your "weakest link" comment. Or for example your dumb blonde joke post. I asked...you answered.

There are 2 others at wov in positions of power that have not engaged in exchange, and for me that keeps the topic of this thread alive. Those 2 are more likely to have the "how dare you" attitude when critique comes their way...and they and their actions are fair game.

I appreciate both you and Face coming here even though one of you doesn't have the ear of the admin.

But there comes a point where its silly for you to need to constantly comment on the same issues that you already addressed with freddy and BWC.

Over the last 2 days the Admin had another meltdown like he did with you and me a couple months ago. Thats fine. I am a big boy and can handle myself.
Had you or wiz or BBB behaved that way....freddy would have been all over it. If wiz had declared that a poll to vote someone off be instituted....freddy would be foaming at the mouth. If a long time poster with credibility would be insulted by a member and the wiz claimed the insult was fine because there are non published time limits on "active members"...freddy would have it well taken care of. If a defender of freddy on wov claimed improper vindictive punishment by BBB.....there would be hell to pay.

But alas..all freddy can do over the last 2 days is rehash comments about you that you did address months ago. All he could do over the last 2 months is pretend I didnt exist. Heck..Even KewlJ asked where I was and wanted me to comment on something.And the drunken guy called out my name a few times....in insulting fashion..

Now that the issue is blown over and is done as far as I am concerned. Freddy emerged with comments abut your "exposure".........once again

Hell I might as well start harping on your dumb blonde joke and your "weakest link" comment....even though you addressed both in a satisfactory way. What more could I want to get out of you.

So, you seem to be good at debating. My advice is...do what Face does. He picks and chooses what he responds to. And when he does respond there is value to him and to the person who he is replying to.

Let the other 2 obsess over your penis. You responded. Its on record. Just do what Face does...if you address something and it goes on and on......he lets it go. He lets his words speak for themselves.....he says what he means.....and its on record. And thats good enough for me.

Once you said that maybe that dumb blonde joke was not a good idea and that you wouldnt use the weakest link anymore....what the fuck is left for me to say.

 

By not putting people in that position to begin with. The only real news any gambler makes is his/her own death. Another irony of gambling for the sake of gambling. Perhaps, the Wizard will start a thread about what people will say about his own death? (To be at his own funeral, and off-beat to the end.)

 

So "newbie" Zenking just took a gratuitous shot at KewlJ at WoV.

WTF?

Gotta wonder, is he just a "cursed" wild-eyed wannabe AP, or a not-so clever troll whose agenda is finally being revealed?

Stay tuned ... "Trundle" will no doubt shock and amaze us all!

 

Nothing new there. On Norm’s (qfit) blackjack site I have been gone for a year and a half and Norm’s membership still regularly attack me and Norm allows it. Once I became critical of Norm’s site and those members that were intentionally misleading newer players, Norm set out to not only silence me, but discredit me, throughout the blackjack community and any related sites that I participated on. Allowing people to attack me, plays right into that.

In taking sides when he had no business doing so, Michael Shackleford, simply allowed Norm to extend his control and agenda, so it’s no surprise, I am attacked at WoV. Mike was used and continues to this day to be used, by Qfit.

There is nothing more cowardice than attacking someone who can’t respond. It’s disappointing that WoV, would also decide to allow such attacks. While it’s true that I am very protective of my privacy, which has served me well, I think I have proven myself at WoV to the extent that many members and administrators know, I am not fake, nor a casino ‘plant’, with some sort of ten year plan to lure young blackjack AP’s to Las Vegas. Even as he banned me, Mike had some comments about what a good member of WoV I was and how he valued my contributions. But allowing someone to suggest the things Zenking just did, when he knows they are 100% false, again shows how much Mike thinks of me and my contributions. Total lack of respect.

So let’s talk about ZenKinG. I have been very disappointed in the way he has been treated at WoV. From the moment he entered, he was attacked. And he brought some, make that much of that on himself, just as he did at Norm’s site. He’s a hard guy to like and want to help and I get that some members have little desire to help him. But you know what, if you are participating on these sites, you aren’t looking for a new best friend. You are supposed to be there to share and help and I continue to be disappointed that more AP’s didn’t separate those feelings....to the point that it is more than obvious that almost everyone is rooting against him, some even sabotaging him with their comments and advice. But again, he brought much of that on himself.

MrV labeled ZenKinG a “newbie”. He’s not. He has been playing for years. He joined and participated at Qfit’s site for a number of years until his abrasive style turned the membership there against him he was eventually banned. He then went to WoV, where he has been for over a year. And has done the same thing. So he is not a ‘newbie’, he’s been at these forums and blackjack play for a number of years.

I completely reject the notion put forth by ZenKing that I am telling or encouraging anyone to follow in my footsteps. I have bent over backwards sharing my own rough patches. I (too) often, repeat that when I was starting out, I was on a shoe-string existence, frequent meals of mac and cheese and peanut butter sandwiches….with earnings of 31 thousand dollars OVER my first 3 years….I had to be. So how is that encouraging anyone to follow in my footsteps? I too often repeat that I have experienced four (4) different losing periods lasting 6 months (30,000-40,000 rounds). How is that encouraging anyone to follow in my footsteps?

So, anyway, for a guy who read everything I wrote on several sites, and was so “influenced" by me, ZenKinG has followed very little of my advice. I am quite sure I never recommended anyone come to Vegas and play blackjack on the strip (horrible conditions). I constantly advise, even to the dismay of some of my fellow CCing AP’s, to get off strip, to the local type casinos with better rules and conditions.

As recently as a month ago, on this very site, I commented about how I felt the membership at WoV was being vindictive, to the point of not just rooting against ZenKing, but sabotaging him with bad advice. I literally begged some of the cross-over members of both sites to direct him here. To my disappointment, not one did so. And now, I am not really interested in doing so. I have lost the interest to help anyone, and even more so, involving ZenKinG after his attack.

But I will say this to ZenKing: Stop your bitching. You are not cursed. Nor have you had it rough. Try waking up on your 18th birthday, while still in high school and having your stepdad pack you bags and give you an hour to get out. Shit...I wish I had the opportunity to live at home, through college and years after. I wish I had the opportunity to live at home, work and build a 50k bankroll. WTF!

So you have lost 6-7k in 4 days since you arrived in Vegas? Yeah it suck to start out on a negative run. BUT it is part of the game. That is why a substantial BR is required. 4 days and 6-7 grand is nothing. Again, I have experienced (4) different 6 month losing periods of 30-40k.

So get off the strip, stop chasing losses (which I suspect you are) and start finding and playing better games and opportunities and stop feeling sorry for yourself.

And speaking of chasing, or following...stop with that damn story that has followed you from PA, that the casino’s are cheating you. If you don’t know that this is baloney, then you are not cut out for this career choice.

I honestly don’t know if you are cut out for this. From your knee-jerk reactions to a little bit of a rough start, I tend to think not. But, If you really want to become a BJ AP, MAKE IT HAPPEN. With your lack of confidence and paranoia concerning your 50K bankroll, (which is more than enough), it probably is a good idea to get a part-time job, while you go through some of the swings and experience how they work. It will take the pressure off.

Otherwise, pack your bags and go “home”. It feels like you are looking for an excuse to do that anyway.

 

One other thing that I forgot to mention...and it's a biggie. If nothing else, I hope one of these cross-over members will relate this to ZenKing.

Shortly after I relocated to Vegas, on the first site that I participated on, BJinfo, some of the long-time members will remember the "death-gate" incident. Not a very proud moment or decision of my online participation. Some still hold it against me. And while some of the long-term members of the community will remember that incident, they probably forget what lead to that incident.

Shortly after I moved to Vegas, I posted too much personal info, about my condo and where I lived. I was young and stupid and proud that I lived in a highrise just off the strip. I mean I didn't post the address or name of the condo, but tidbits here and there. Surely, it wasn't too hard for the guy that robbed me at gunpoint to figure it out. (a guy who specifically demanded my BR)

Zenking has made this same huge mistake. He has posted in too much detail about where he lives, a weekly, which is problematic anyway (hi crime). He has posted too much info about his finances and even a description of himself (height). These sites aren't just a gathering of AP's or gambling enthusiasts, or even the trolls that make themselves know. There are lurker's of all kinds.

 

Re: Zenking. Whenever I ran into a bad losing streak that wouldn't go away I dropped my bet size down until things turned around.

Re: Paigowdan. The AP's that argued against his belief that AP's were cheaters, whatever, were not abusing him. When someone holds a view that is diametrically opposed to yours and expresses it to you it is not abuse. If you think it is abuse then the same could be said for PGD for expressing his diametrically opposed view.

Another thing about PGD and his over tipping. He worked for tips. When I bartended in the eighties bartenders over tipped each other as a matter of course. It was the way we propped each other up. It is bad form to accept tips but not be a good tipper yourself. Dan was just doing the same in his trade.

 

Thanks for the "back story," KJ.

Never been to Norm's site; I relied on what ZK wrote at WoV: he seems to be a mouthy punk wearing over-sized clown shoes.

Some of his bullshit is so outlandish that I sometimes suspect he could be a casino mole setting a trap to snare some big-hearted WoV APs.

That would rock.

 

I have debated (not master-bated) with myself as to whether I wanted to comment on Dan's passing since I read the news.

I did not know Dan Lubin. But he was a member of the forum that I participated on for 4 years and apparently many there considered him a friend, so my condolences to those that knew him and thought of him as a friend. Many members of that site are saying what a great guy he was, good family man, etc. No better legacy than to have those that really knew you to speak well of you.

But while I did not know Dan Lubin the person, I did have quite a number of discussions with "Paigowdan" (PGD) and PGD was really quite a dick, so I am going to distingue between Dan Lubin the person that I did not know, and PGD, the abrasive online personality that I frequently did battle with.

I am an professional AP and PGD certainly was no friend to AP's. I understand that he was solidly pro-casino industry, being a longtime casino dealer and later game designer. That alone doesn't make him my enemy. One of my closest friends is a 20 years pit boss at a strip casino.

However, PGD choose to draw that big red line in the sand. He was pro-casino industry and AP's were his enemy. He routinely vilified card counters like myself, always referring to us as "cheater", when there is absolutely nothing remotely cheating about card counting. We are playing the game 100% within the rules outlined. PGD seemed to want to equate thinking and using your brain to cheating. And inevitably when he couldn't make a good argument as to why playing the game completely within the rules of the games was NOT cheating, he would revert to his fall back position about violating some sort of secret, non-posted house rules. His argument was just asinine.

And if vilifying those of us that play legally within the rules of the game wasn't enough, he would take his defense of the gaming industry to an extreme, unwilling to acknowledge that the gaming/gambling industry is one of the most predatory industries in existence.

At the end of most of these debates, I often got the feeling that PGD didn't really believe half of what he was arguing, but as a pro-casino guy just felt the need to argue it. That is what I am going to choose to believe.

So again, condolences to those that were friends of Dan Lubin....may he rest in peace, but I won't miss PGD's absurd arguments. And this is one time, he won't get the final word.

AND....in his honor, today I didn't tip any of my dealers a single penny.

 

If this guy's plan was to park his ass on the strip and play blackjack for a living, he's an idiot. Why do you bother giving advice to people who have no idea what they're doing or are just pulling your leg?

 

At first I thought you were just re-posting my post because you liked it so much. Glad you got that edit in within the 5 minutes.

The guy is not pulling my or anyone else's leg. I am very confident in that from reading him on several sites for a number of years. And I don't say that to defend him. He is young and abrasive, cocky, and at times, just over-bearing. As I said, at times you just almost want to root against him. I can see why some can't resist rooting against him.

I bother giving advice and sharing my experiences in hopes that others may benefit by and learn from my experiences because others did exactly that for me, not that many years ago. I know it's hard to believe, but I also sometimes rub people the wrong way , and yet experienced BJ players on several sites, still shared their experiences and knowledge with me for which I greatly benefitted and am greatly in their debt. Paying that forward is the least I can do.

 

Hey, KJ. Face the Red here. I've a question or few for you.

Having gone through the "death gate" thing, where, if I'm picking up things correctly, someone took advantage of you which resulted in you acting in a manner you now look back at as foolhardy, does that not give you pause in the here and now?

I mean,... bah. Fuck it. I can't pussy foot around, tiptoeing as if I was unsure of your regards toward me. I'll just talk to you as I always have. Keep death-gate in your mind as you read, if you would.

You got fucked over, swore vengeance, it was over. Let's just ball the issue and the following few months or so into that phrase right there. No need to rehash every little thing since LarryS took you to task for withholding the bits and pieces. Let's just pick it up from right there.

Since that moment, there surprisingly are still very many things that make me curious, and those things still don't seem to have an end, and none of them make any sense. I know you disparaged your "friends" from WoV, for reasons I still do not understand. Yes, I've read your explanation about how they didn't do enough; I'm saying that doesn't make sense. I saw you call out Mission as a planted spy, for reasons I cannot comprehend as I thought he has done perhaps the most, or at least has offered the most, on your behalf. I know you called me out for the same, and while I have no qualms with you stating I did the least (I probably did do the least), I have always been straight with you, given the benefit of doubt, listened, etc. Always been a friend, in other words. Then, what really floored me, you socked WoV.

You do know I wrote that while I hated all of your subject matter (BJ), I read it all anyway? You know you are always grouped into the serious AP, the real AP, one who's Done It? You know that among those in the community you haven't offended or alienated, they look to you as One of Them, right? Your name, your knowledge, has real value, value which has been certified by the big names in the industry. That value could pay your freight (it is), that value could turn into a payday, like a book, perhaps (it might), or that value could be... disseminated to the forum of the very man you swore to ruin, for free, on your own time.

Why, KJ? The very thing you swore, the very thing that burns deep in your heart, and you do the exact opposite of it? For... what? The attachment to a 20something just starting out that you just "met" weeks ago? The attention? The craft? What force could be so powerful as to reverse what appeared to be nothing short a blood oath? I see you just posted and explained a bit of this, so then I must ask... how does one who is moved in such a magnanimous manner also have it within him to swear vengeance on such a ridiculous slight? It just does not compute.

But really, you needn't make me understand. You don't even have to waste your time trying to. But as I see you alienate former friend after former friend, and trash your word so haphazardly, bring strife to an even more public stage (Wiz's interview), to now tossing darts at a dead man, I have to wonder if death-gate ever crosses your mind and what goes through it if/when it does.

Side note: I was browsing memes and had the "You either die a hero..." in my head when I came here and saw you, so that's the catalyst for this post. And I've seen that Wiz is more or less the same (in forum), QFIT is posting on topic stuff with no issue (in forum), all offended members are carrying on like normal (in forum), yet KJ, in forum,...

If you were my brother, I'd grab you, put you through a wall, and remind you that they did not get the best of you, but you are goddamned bound and determined to give it to them anyway.

 

I also don't think this plan makes you an 'idiot'. It is ill-advised and isn't going to work, but there is a learning process to it.

I go back 8 years, November 2009. I bought a foreclosed condo in a high-rise a block off mid-strip. A month later, I left my friends and life in Philadelphia and moved in. I had no car, no license even. In Philly, I was a public transit guy and rode my bike all over the city. I bought that condo a block off the strip, because I planned on the strip being my home base. And it was for my first year. That first year, I played what playable games were on the strip (and there are even less now). That was also the one and only year I got into hole-carding and playing the big six wheel, which both offered opportunities on the strip. After only a couple months of each, which some success at both, I decided neither of those opportunities suited me. I just didn't really care for either.

By the end of that first year, I had discovered, through my own experiences as well as some networking, that there was more to Vegas than the strip/downtown and were better blackjack opportunities elsewhere in Vegas. Early the next year, I got my license and leased a car, so I wouldn't have to ride my bike and the public transit buses to the local's types casinos all over town. Three weeks after I leased a car, I won a vehicle via a drawing at one of those local type places.

All part of the learning process of playing Vegas.

 

Well I guess it is a good thing you aren't my brother then. Either that or I want to be the little piggy that lives in the house with straw walls, not the brick walls.

"tossing darts at a dead man"? Really? That's what you took from that. I clearly distinguished between Dan Lubin the person I did not know and PaigowDan, whom I did have some online encounters with and was an ass. And you know what, that online persona, SET out to be an ass. Those that knew Dan personally, have sort of acknowledged he was way different than that online persona, so I don't feel I am being disrespectful. It is what it is.

"You know you are always grouped into the serious AP, the real AP, one who's Done It? You know that among those in the community you haven't offended or alienated, they look to you as One of Them, right? Your name, your knowledge, has real value, value which has been certified by the big names in the industry. That value could pay your freight (it is), that value could turn into a payday, like a book, perhaps (it might), or that value could be... disseminated to the forum of the very man you swore to ruin, for free, on your own time."

I thank you for these mighty kind words, Fisk. It means a lot to me, because my reputation as an AP was and continues to be important to me. I worked hard at building that reputation, and that is why this whole ordeal 'burns' me so. Blackjack/AP is my life. I kind of regarded the AP community as my extended family and WoV, for which I tried really hard to participate and contribute positively for 4 years as my immediate family.

So someone from that extended family (Qfit), setting out with an agenda to discredit me tarnish my reputation (simply because I had an unfavorable opinion of his site and the members of his site) hurt. But that was nothing compared to those in my "immediate family", starting with Michael, turning on me. Mike had no business getting involved. That really burns me. It was very hurtful to me.

As for Qfit participating at WoV and moving on. He's playing you, now too. It is scary that I know him so well by now. But let's examine the facts:

1.) He posted briefly (a couple dozen posts) in 2010.

2.) He then did not post again until Dec 31, 2015.

3.) In those 5+ years, he publicly stated that he did not participate at WoV because he did not trust Michael Shackleford.

4.) When he returned on Dec 31, 2015, it was to extend the feud he and I had going. He hadn't had a sudden change of heart and after 5+ years wanted to participate at WoV. He wanted to bring the feud and use his influence to shut me down and discredit me.

5.) Having achieved #4, by demanding (Mike's word) Mike take action, and once I was banned, which was Qfit's objective, he disappeared AGAIN!

6.) He didn't post for another year and only again started posting when I pointed out that he hadn't posted. It is like he started posting to prove me wrong.

7.) So a couple weeks ago, frustrated with the attacks I constantly defend myself from, I announced I wasn't going to participate anywhere anymore. Guess what? Qfit has posted zero at WoV since. But he likely will tomorrow, to try to prove me wrong.

Bottom line he is playing you now too. Don't get me wrong. Qfit is a smart guy. Knowledgeable in blackjack AP. I have learned much from him and have benefitted greatly from his products. I don't get his sense of humor, nor can I relate to his taste in music (he's like a 60's hippie and makes 60's hippie references) but members, including me can benefit from his participation, IF he chose to participate to benefit others. But that's not what he is doing. He is participating at WoV sporadically, out of spite, trying to prove me wrong when I point out that he isn't participating.

 

Given that you grew up in the internet age, it sounds as if you were initially woefully uninformed and underprepared for what you were undertaking. Zenking is woefully uninformed to a worse degree if tackling the strip is his first predilection.

I was very young when I first tackled Las Vegas, but I wasn't uninformed or underprepared. I'm stunned that people actually wade into deep water with such unearned arrogance.

I grew up two hours west of Philly, by the way. Tough city -- maybe the toughest.

 

Who gives a fuck about QFIT. Everyone knows he's a vindictive piece of shit who can't be trusted. Just a pathetic old cunt really.

The stories of his poor personal hygiene are hilarious and I'd encourage you to post more of them as well as some of the abusive private messages he has sent you over the years. Those would make great reading as well as highlight further how much of a piece of garbage he is.

At this stage you need something new as you're just going over stuff everyone already knows about him. The above would fit the bill!

 

Than again, you guys both live in Las Vegas, so it shouldn't be too hard to find out where he lives.

Try the "flaming bag of shit" on his door step trick, or maybe egg his house or let the air out of his tires.

Revenge is a dish best served cold.

 

I'm have not read all the BS you guy's posted about Dan yet. I skimmed a bit.

WTF is wrong with you people?

If you don't have anything good to say about a guy that had passed on, don't say anything at all. Bunch of fucking ass holes that have to say some shit just to make It about themselves. Fucking pathetic.

 

You guys are fucking pathetic. Dan is dead, but you guys say, let me tell you about ME and how I feel

Seriously?


Wow. PATHETIC.
----
Shut your pie hole people.

 

Larry is right, let me talk about me, me, me. It's all about me, me, me.

Fuck why do you guy's have to prove Larry right each time?

Oh I know why. Because it's true I guess it's all about you, you you.

Can't even resist talking about a dead guy without talking about yourself.