Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I dont agree with axel much....but here is definately common ground.
I dont know much about "Dan" and cant and wont comment because of that one fact.
I feel if you wont stand up and say what you posted in front of people at his funeral....then shut the fuck up.

Instead we get Kewlj with his ME ME ME. slant.
We have freddy using the guys death to critique others such as Wiz who according to him should open up the site to all banned people to make comments on the death and life of 'dan"

the real friends of dan dont need wov to find a way to pay their respects. They are at the funeral hugging the wife and offering condolences.
Others are "friends" of family via facebook or email. They have sent flowers or picked up the phone and called. Yes they have the phone numbers and email address.

Everyone else is fucking irrelevant. They know less than 1 percent of the guys life. They are searching around the net for clues about things they can talk about here.

He wasnt a single thought of these people for months or years...and all of a sudden they need to comment as if they have something relevant to say.

No one would mention him on this site for as long as I can remember...and now people feel the need to offer a balanced eulogy.

Save it. Unless you are a wife or kid or best friend....then I dont need your view of his pros and cons now that he cannot be here to respond.

If people are religious....they can pray for him and his family. They dont need wov to let the spirit of Dan know their feelings. Is freddy saying that the spiritual world reads wov and not GF?

People who post on the gambling boards RIP for DAN.....so what.....its just a look at me me me event. Its not consoling anyone. For people who really care...they are at the funeral home, the grave site, on the phone with the grievers

And for people who dont believe in god...then they cant believe the corpse is actually "resting"...or that there is a "spirit" that needs to rest.

For me, all I can say is that its sad news to hear of a posters death and I wish the family and friends well wishes into the future.

But am I going to comment on DAN based on a few posts I read...or based on some research I just read on wov's old posts or facebook.
No...I wll sit this one out.

but.......I was just thinking about KJs "balanced" "objective" eulogy......maybe he needs to read a similar one directed at him......lets see...TBC

 

so axel, if KJ died, are you saying that this post on a "wov is dying thread" on a different website...one that KJ never posted on.....are you saying this would be bad form? Even though I know nothing substantial about the dude,only his persona on GF....I am empowered to talk about him in his newly formed hours of death...Ju7st like he did about DAN on a website that Dan didnt participate in very much or at all.
So here it is....and I wouldpost in on a different website.

I dont know alot aboUt KJ as far as his trade. He declared he was a successful AP and also that he was eager to help others in that trade. So condolences to his friends, relatives and his 3 room mates. I remember when I was going to school, before any success...I also had 3 room mates.

As far as him personally, I remember he used to post on GF alot. I remember when he first arrived and said he wasnt going to stay long , that it wasnt his cup of tea. He would be in and out pretty quick. Well hundreds of posts later....he never left.

I remember he came with his story about how he was the "victim" of poor treatment by management at wov and by QFIT. For a couple of weeks he told the story in great detail......garnering sympathy on this board and at wov. Many folks here and wov posted how they felt he got a raw deal and was really a vicitim. Poor KJ.....we would like him back......its just not fair.....blah blah blah

As the support swelled.....he dropped a bombshell...that he communicated with shackelford and threatened him with a pledge to spend the rest of his life exposing him. This was soon to be nicknamed the "fuck you letter". A big "fuck you" in an open threat. But he waited till the support had swelled sufficiently possibly thinking that the "fuck you" disclosure would be overlooked. It wasnt.. and the groundswell of support dried up. The KewlJ posts on wov in support of him dried up. Hell it even made the wiz look good in that even amid all the support clamoring the KJs reinstatement...he(wiz) never disclosed the private memo with the threat. He did take the high road.

And he(KJ) cOULDNT even hide behind the idea that the "fuck you letter" was just an off the cuff remark in the heat of battle. A year after his threat..he made good on it in a comment on a article on the wiz. So it was not an idle threat. It was a well meant threat. At this point not only had QFIT won...but he destroyed KJ...without lifting a finger. KJ did all the work after the initial banning.

I remember when people would comment about this over time he would play coy and comment "i never threatened anyone" or "i never sent a letter" or "i never said fuck you". All disingenuous comments and poor debate points.

I also remember his exits and his returns. His me me me attitude. When a large large majority of his posts were directly related to the treatment of him him him.

all the above is factual and now that he is dead I feel the need to talk about it...even though me nor anyone else even talked about him on this site before.

But I will hide behind the need to offer condolences in order for me to pretend I have something of substance to say about a man that i dont know.


the above is just as appropriate as KJS eulogy of DAN

RIP KJ in the future.

your online eulogy is in the good hads of people who dont really know the first fucking thing about you

 

Problem is that I did not eulogize or even comment about Dan. I made that crystal clear in the first lines of my comments. I did not know Dan Lubin and my comments were not about the person, Dan Lubin whom I did not know. I did however, know and interact frequently with PaigowDan and thus was within my right to make comments about the persona PaigowDan. And my comments concerning Paigowdan were nothing that I would not say directly to him, and did many times.

When a person joins a message board community, they have chosen to become somewhat of a public figure and people that they don't personally know are going to have interactions with them. And people that they don't personally know will have opinions about them and will voice those opinions.

So yes, I fully expect that when I pass, there will be comments, surely some negative from people that didn't know me the person, but will have negative opinions of the AP community member KewlJ. That is fair game. And you can bet that I when Mike Shackleford and Norman Wattenberger pass, I will have some comments. Not pertaining to Mike Shackleford or Norman Wattenberger the people, who I have not met, but pertaining to Wizard, and Qfit, internet personas, whom I have had interactions with. Yep, I am pretty sure I will have something to say.

 

Anyone remember the "Soup nazi" episode on seinfeld in the mid 1990s.

It was about a guy who sold great soup...but he treated customers like shit. If you didnt show deference and place your order just right he would shout..."no soup for you"...and point to the door.

If you wanted soup...you didnt speak up and defend the other customers that were treated poorly. Back then all you could do is go back home and complain to you friends..and today I guess write a yelp comment while you continue to go back over and over

So the cowards stayed and said nothing. The valiant spoke up and took the consequences of getting no soup. The valiant manned up and commented directly to the Soup Nazi to try to evoke change and be a good neighbor. The cowards continued to visit the establishment as they were in "good standing" and they went home and complained about the soup nazi behind his back....and today they would hurl their comments via yelp...hurling their comments from a safe distance. God forbid they should lose the privilege of being able to buy soup.

This thread is like yelp for some it seems. They wont man up at wov and deal with the consequences mano y mano......but they will continually write negative reviews here.

 

So Qfit posted his email address at WoV because he wanted to respond to private inquiries by email rather than PM. What he really wants is to direct more people to his site (his email address is his site). No one else would be allowed to do that, but then again, Qfit isn't anyone else.

So anyway, when there was a comment about posting his email address, Qfit responded that in 24 years he has had only one email troll. Mrs. Qfit (Mike) then chimed in with "I wonder who that was". Both insinuating me of course.

A quick check of my email account shows that Qfit made initial contact with me 11 times in the last 18 months. That is to say contacted me out of the blue, usually to dispute something I said and tell me how mentally ill he thinks I am, or other insults. Other AP's that have feuded with Qfit report similar contacts, so that's his thing I guess.

So 11 times he initially contacted me. During that time frame, I initially contacted him twice. Once when a member cross-over member of this site (GA) who was actually a supporter of my position was posting at Qfit's voodoo site. I asked to be allowed a single post to make it clear that this person wasn't speaking for me, and I did not endorse his comments as he was indicating. Qfit did not allow my request.

The second time, recently about a week ago, was an inquiry into a person that was posting at Qfit's sit. He is/was using a handle indicating or presenting himself as a known (published) long-term professional blackjack player. I asked if Qfit could confirm that was who the poster was.

So let he record show who is trolling who with emails. He contacted me out of the blue 11 times, mostly insults and name calling and I contacted him twice asking for information regarding contents of his site.

AND there was Mike Shackleford to jump right in on his "friends" behalf, yet again, without indifference to the facts. Sort of a microcosm of this whole situation.

 

I don't know anyone I want to die, I can't even think of anyone from my past I wished that fate upon. There are a few people I wish would retire or just go away.
.
I wouldn't say anything bad about KJ if he were to die, I would wait at least a year or so. I would say its very sad and he will be missed.

I could have said more about Dan, he asked me for a favor one time and we got along just fine and he was respectful, I didn't feel the need to mention it as it would have been about me. I didn't know him well enough, so I felt it was better for the people who knew him best to speak.

 

Mike has let people add links to their websites and or whatever.

 

over your head

it was a take off of the eulogy KJ felt the need to give to dan.

he didnt know him, he used his interaction on message boards as some sort of invite to give his opinion of the dead.

I satirized just that.

If KJ died tomorrow I would hold the same opinion as I do of Dan.....i dont know them both so I LEAVE THE ME ME ME STUFF to others....and keep my mouth shut

it just gives KJ a nice view of how it seems from the other side.

 

I have a new and unique proposal to Michael Shackleford as a final resolution to this affair.

I will pay for professional conflict arbitration.

I would want a random selection of a professional arbitrator here in Vegas, with some sort of drawing of arbitrators from a hat, so to make sure Mr Shackleford doesn’t pick someone he knows personally. We both will have a set time frame, maybe 1 hour, to make our case, including printouts of relevant correspondences (PM’s).

At the end, the arbitrator will make a decision. This decision won’t result in my return to WoV. I think we both know Mike isn’t man enough for that. He has proven this over the last year. All I ask is that the finding of this arbitrator as to whether or not Mike treated me fairly be published at WoV.

And that will end it. No more comments. I will get what you and I both know, a public acknowledgement that you treated me unfairly and were dishonest and you will get an early end to the 40 years of bringing this incident up that I promised you. Complete closure.

I know Mike reads this site, but just to be sure, I will print out this proposal and mail it to his home.

 

Jesus fucking christ.....we are now into Norm and the number of emails he sent and the reasons he is posting his email address.
Norm has truly won

Face was right. Norm didnt win on the day when KJ was banned. He won as the days went by and KJ went down a certain path.

There is an axiom in psychology that says that Anger is a secondary emotion. No one can MAKE you angry. You have to choose to be angry from anothers words or actions.
Similarly...QFIT and Wiz didnt make KJ react as he did. That is totally on him. There were many other paths to take. And KJ took the path of self destruction. The path the made QFIT a winner. A big winner.

And with the current comment on the article about the wiz, making good on his year old threat.......as far as winning....QFIT hit the lottery..and he didnt even have to buy a ticket....KJ bought it for him.

KJ and his actions turned him from a sympathetic character with loads of respect from others....into a.narcissistic vindictive cry baby. with a poor sense of judgement. Someone who cant see the damage he is doing to himself and his rep.

I am not saying anything new.....Face pretty much laid it out in many more words.

Dont take my word for it.....look at the lost support that occured once the "fuck you" letter was disclosed. And now look at the negative reaction seen to the recent article response a year later.

not alot of slaps on the back

not alot of support.

While I have no rep in the gambling world to uphold for myself......it seems KJ used to have one much stronger than now.

QFIT won......big time...and he didnt have to lift a finger

 

he lives in a fairy tale world. Shackleford says KJ is dead...and for good reason

No one is clamoring for KJ to return to wov...so the wiz has no incentive

Now had KJ taken a different path.....there are alot of resolutions that were possible. There would have been an organic groundswell of members wanting kj back....at least 2 admins would have been an advocate. This would have occurred during a time when QFIT was still missing in action at wov....proving he had no value.

But the actions of KJ gave QFIT enough time to re-invent himself and become a contributor to wov. But for about a year he was missing from WOV...proving he was just there to cause trouble with KJ. But KJ was a person who threatened the good name of the manager of the site.....a lifetime threat. All of a sudden QFIT doesnt look so bad.

KJ with his fuck you letter, gave QFIT the time needed to come back and be a valued contributer.

Why would the wiz enter into arbitration with a dead man.

KJ is dead in his mind........he said so. And I dont think the public recent comments attached to the article by kj helped change his mind.

The above quote proves how out of touch with reality KJ is.

his grass roots support is gone......he is viewed as dead by the wiz.....and he thinks NOW is a good time to ask for an arbitrator.

that was a good idea....around a year ago.......

 

You are correct Larry in that Qfit won. That didn't occur due to anything I posted though. That occurred, the day He showed up at WoV, a site he vowed never to participate at because he didn't trust Shackleford. On that day Dec 31, 2015, when Qfit showed up after a 5 and 1/2 year absence, an found Mike Shackleford, gushing over him like a school girl in love, the outcome was inevitable. From that moment on, Qfit 'played' and manipulated Mike, calling out favors, ect. Qfit is a life-long manipulator of people. Ask around the blackjack community.

But let's talk about support. Yep...I have lost support. Specifically the support of Axel, RS, Fisk and Mission. All members/mods at WoV, all friends of Shackleford. When this started it wasn't really about Shackleford and never should have been. It was a feud between Qfit and I and all 4 of these WoV members, were able to objectively look at the situation (RS had the benefit of knowing what occurred at Norm's site). And objectively looking at the situation, all supported me.

That support changed once I began challenging Shackleford. Shacklford injected himself into the situation, a situation, had no business getting involve in. So once I began 'challenging' their friend, Shackleford, they no longer supported me. Oh, they will tell you it was the F-U comment, or this or that, but they just could not separate their friendship. They could not be friends with Mike and still acknowledge that he was wrong and unfair in his handling of the situation. They felt the need to take sides, because of friendship. I guess that's ok. That's what friendship is, sort of. But don't come here pretending to be objective.

So yeah, these 4 outspoken members here, and you who are against anything I say and do, withdrew support. Oh well. Let's compare that to your support....on anything! What support do you have? I have yet to hear from anyone in any site that doesn't think you are a nut.

 

you are in denial.

no one else sees it that way.

and thats the rub.....you live in your own reality. Everyone else sees it one way..and you see it your way.

except that your way is insane....your way involves heavy duty blinders.....Blinders with enough of an opening where you can see others and point fingers at them.

QFIT won.....because you gave him a head start..........and dint give him any competition.

you went for instant gratification with the fuck you letter, and you doubled down with your recent contribution to the article

you are a novice in the race we call life.....rather naive.....and you wear blinders.

QFIT did not have to be savvy to win He did a small part....you did the heavy liftng

read Face, read Mission, read Axel, read RS,

DONT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.

 

By the way, sincere props and well wishes to MC for his life choice.

 

Fisk, Mission, and particularly RS and Axel are not objective. They are WoVer, two personal friends of Mike and two, moderators at the site that he remains in charge of who also have some level of friendship with Mike.

These 4 are like turning on the local news and seeing a story about a guy who murdered someone. His sister and Mother will pop up and swear he didn't do it. Axel, RS, Fisk, Mission are the sister and mother!

I know this is some sort of debate to you, which you have stated that you thoroughly enjoy. Some sort of challenge through debate. You have mentioned time and time how much you enjoy that. Well that's not what it is to me. To me it is personal. I took the time and effort of participating on a site that was about advantage play, Las Vegas. I enjoyed doing so, but still I worked hard to contribute positively....for 4 years. 4 years that Qfit was not only NOT participating at WoV, but publicly trashing WoV and Mike.

While it's true that we all participate for our own reasons and mostly because we want to. technically none of us are owed anything, except a little respect. To be treated fairly. That isn't too much to ask for. I was not treated fairly and I take it personally. And for me, 10 times worse is that Mike has acknowledged to me that he wasn't fair and initiated the "truce" to benefit Norm. Yet, publicly he said different things. I deserve better than that.

So this isn't some mental debate competition to me Larry. So just stop.

Very Nice! Without a doubt the best post you have made. Shows there is a little civility and humanity in there somewhere.

 

I forwarded them so I could erase the emails prior to the screenshot. I am not going to post pages and pages of emails. I think that probably could get me into trouble.

Ok, so I never posted screenshots before. Thanks, BWC for insisting that I do, so that I had to figure out how. Since I now know how, heres a couple more you might enjoy.

 

I don't want to have to figure out how to highlight, s please take note of second line. Mike is afraid if he does what he knows is right Norm will come after him. ???? sad.

 

Here is one where we were negotiating about a possible return. Mike told me he would have run it by Norm for approval. (Who knew Norm was in charge). So note the very first line.....a dozen...12 replies from Norm saying 'No'.

 

And finally, to be fair, I am going to post the much talked about F-U message, because I still believe it is being taken in a way not intended. The context was that Mike has just told me that he couldn't let me back because then Norm would attack him. I simply wanted him to know there were consequences from me as well.