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Craps Are they Dice or Marbles?

Discussion in 'Craps Forum' started by Dicenator, Nov 26, 2015.

  1. Dicenator

    Dicenator New Member

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    I just got back from a 7 day cruise on the Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. The craps table on this ship was 12 feet long with a dark brown micro fiber layout. On a 1 to 10 scale I rate this table as a 10 and I would also say that it is the 2nd best table I've ever played on. The first evening after having to adjust my landing zone in to around 18" from the 27" I usually target, I had a 41 throw hand with 5 points made. So I thought I was in for an exceptional week of craps play.

    Over the last 2 years on Carnival ships I've been finding dice being used where the corners are all rounded off like they've been in play for 4 or 5 days. So I always check the condition of the dice when I first get them in my hands. Here is what I found on this cruise:

    1st night- they were not new but I could still make out some degree of corners on the dice.
    2nd night- They were so rounded and worn I called them marbles in my notebook.
    3rd night- They were marbles again.
    4th night- The dice were not new but similar to night 1.
    5th night- The dice were worn and just slightly better than marbles.
    6th night- Marbles again

    I didn't play the first night because the casino wasn't opening until 10 PM. As you can see I never encountered new dice for the whole cruise. In asking the dealers and pit bosses we found out that New Dice after being used for the day are put back into inventory and reused multiple times during the month. I have no idea if they have any kind of control system to keep track of the usage on any set.

    I contacted the VP of Casino Operations to try to get some clarification on this issue. All I could get out of him is that the typical dice set used on the ship get the equivalent of 24 hours of use in a land based casino. Every land based casino I've ever played in changes to new dice every shift if there is a reasonable amount of play during that shift.

    I'm so annoyed with this situation that I cancelled 2 new Carnival cruises that I already had booked for next year.

    I have never played with worn dice before in any land based casino that I've played in. My practice dice at home I throw away after 600 throws and the corners on these throwaways are far better than what I've been finding on the Carnival ships.

    I use an Underhand throw from either SR or SL.

    My personal opinion is that your throwing performance deteriorates with worn dice. Brand new dice are not necessarily ideal either depending on the table surface and underlayment beneath it. I usually prefer the dice to have an hours worth of play on them so that the extreme sharpness on the corners has been very slightly dulled.

    Does anyone have any experience with worn dice in a casino or an opinion as to how they perform compared to new dice.

    Dicenator
     
  2. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Occupation:
    Gambler, bikini contest judge, and lounge rat
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    How is it in your opinion that WORN dice behave any differently than NEW dice?
     
  3. Dicenator

    Dicenator New Member

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    I keep records of every throw I make in a casino and also during my practice sessions. On this cruise my performance was off with the marbles versus the 2 days that I thought the dice were OK. In my practice I notice a drop off in performance as I approach 600 throws with my dice. On this cruise with the degree of wear on the corners I would estimate somewhere north of 1200 throws. In some other cruises, Carnival Splendor in June, 2015 and also December 2013 where I noted specific days with worn dice, my throwing performance was off compared to days with OK dice.

    On many of the cruises that I've been on where only good dice were in play for the week I would have a 25+ throw hand at least once per day.

    I'm looking for feedback on this issue. Playing with worn dice (rounded corners) is totally foreign to my experience since 99% of my play has always been with new dice introduced every shift in the casinos.

    There are so many factors contributing to randomness of the throwing results. The throw, the table surface, its' bounciness, the hardness or softness of the pyramid rubber. When you introduce rounded corners on the dice it is another element adding to the randomness.

    Dicenator
     
  4. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

    Joined:
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    Occupation:
    Gambler, bikini contest judge, and lounge rat
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    Dicenator
    You make a strong argument for bias dice, and perhaps the casino knows that such dice work in favor of the casino so they rotate them in once they feel the players are warmed up to the ship casino. I mean, if you go in first day and get you ass kicked, then the likelihood of you showing up in the ship casino for the remainder of the cruse is zilch. But, if they do the Frog in the boiling water thing, where they turn it up slowly, then it is likely that the players, a captive audience, will either not notice it or just think it is the normal turn of volatility.

    Playing in unregulated casinos, such as in an Indian Casino or ship casino in International waters, has its risk.
     
  5. Anna Loudon

    Anna Loudon Member

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    Occupation:
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    Marbles or dice who cares I want to learn how to throw the dice. I can't hit the board on the other side.
     
  6. Dicenator

    Dicenator New Member

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    I waged war with Carnival over the worn dice issue and I won. After a few back and forth emails with the Senior Vice President of Casino Operations we connected with a 30 minute phone conversation. I gave him my throwing statistics comparing marbles to OK dice. The difference was almost 3 throws per hand lower on average for the marbles versus the OK dice. He told me that he would bring this issue up at his staff meeting within a week.

    I called him about 2 weeks later. They consulted with outside casino experts who agreed with my assessment concerning the worn dice. They have now changed their policy. Dice will no longer be used more than 2 days total and then be discarded. You will not have the same set of dice used during your cruise. 2 days of use on a cruise ship is pretty much equivalent to one 8 hour shift in a land based casino.

    The Senior VP is also in charge of the casinos on Princess, Holland America and Cunard. This new policy is supposed to apply across the board on all their lines.

    I will be on 3 Princess cruises back to back to back starting in 3 weeks so I'll be able to check if this new policy is really in effect. I will report back when I return.

    Dicenator
     

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