Craps Dealers and Stickmen

When craps was my game, I remember a few times when I was throwing the dice next to a stickman. And when I was on a nice roll(I dont set the dice)....the stickman would sometimes lean in when I was in the process of throwing. I wonder is this a technique they use to break a hot roll, to break my rhythm. He didnt lean in to place a late bet. It was just a lean for no good reason.
Is this something they do to counter dice setters on a hot roll or anyone on a hot roll for that matter.
Or am I just a little paranoid.

On the one hand if I am betting hardways for them, they may want to root for me. But then again they also work fr the "company".....so maybe they are expected to look after the companies interests as well.

Does anyone know if dealers and sticks are taught ways to break rhythm or break throwing patterns or arc that are working.

 

larry, I have never seen or heard it taught but I have had some sticks lean in on me also......I think they are just assholes who hate their job and life.

 

thanks appi---I remember once I was so mad, that I wanted to take down the dealer hardways.....but i didnt know if I even had control over those bets anymore.
I would never even try to do that.it would be too embarrassing for me......but did u ever see someone try....

 

yes many times and I have done it also....I remember one time I got so mad I just scooped my chips and was leaving mid roll when the base dealer said you got 10 bucks here (10 come bet and 11 just rolled) I yelled back split it amongst you guys but skip this prick.

 

Yes they will do things like that, especially of you are NOT toking them.

But then again, i had a $5 fire bet for dealers one night at off strip casino. I was shooting, hand ended into high forties, 47 if i remember. HRR, Koi there that night. Anyway, shooting from straight out using a Little Joe shot, the stickman hit down one of my dice and said no roll, sliding the dice. I said WTF, sliding, are you kidding me. I took all my bets OFF for a few rolls, bc thats were the arguing started. I told the dealer next to me. Asian, said, wow and I'm trying to make you guys $5000 in tips and this is what i get. he grabs the toke fire bet and chucks it at me bouncing near the PL and hitting the pyramids. I told him to put back his toke, he threw it right back against the Pyramids once again. I told him i had hard ways $1 ea as well and he took those down.

I said listen Pal, sliding the dice is a felony and could result in imprisonment. To me, accusing someone of sliding is like me calling someones mother a Whore. I spelt W-H-O-R-E as there was a lady present at table two spots to my right. This dealer turns as tells roving Pit Boss, that i called his mother a whore. The sicilian in me wanted to jump across and choked him out, but that wouldn't be right either. So i told him you are nuts, i said someone, not you. The players al backed me. He went on break room and later i heard from pit boss that he was crying in the break room bc i called his mother a whore which i did not do.

Believe it or not there were so many NEGATIVE indicators that the 7 was coming, i reduced down to $64 across and started my bets over, went another 15 rolls than reduced down to $96 across, for another 15 rolls where i reduced to $150 across. when roll ended, (i chart), i calculated the 4 and 10 and would of been at MAX bet $5k and won on each...$20k this crybaby cost me. Had the stick not sticked the dice, this might of been a Roll i talk about for years to come... How VDC took them for $20k+

Bottom line, dealers do things like lean body, lean stick at 22* angle, put stick in left hand on SL1-2 shots and right hand on SR1-2

 

I believe the dealer who was crying just had mental issues. Like Appi said...probably hates his job and gets joy seeing people loose in order to say to themselves "at least I am better off than them". When people are winning he needs to show his authority.
I wouldnt look back and assume all your throws would have been exactly the same and you would have won 20k extra. That is a faulty assumption. MAybe you would have thrown longer, maybe your would have thrown much shorter. Just the extra adrenalin pumping through your body after the idiotic display of the dealers had to change your throw a little bit. And in craps "a little bit" can translate into changed results.

 

I'd consider this dealer a lump and a chump...but that's just my opinion.

 

Play this game long enough and you will probably run into a dealer, box or pit boss that has one or two following issues:

1. Emotional insecurity ( wants to be the table authority)

2. Fear (feel they are getting taken advantage of, scared )

3. Clueless ( read too many woo-woo books or knows it all)

4. Plain harassment ( disruptive, lazy or disinterested, don’t want your business )

5. Bad day ( dealing with personal issues)

My recent encounter was about my low toss. The Box made a point of instructing me to put more of an arc to it. I complied. Although the request was stupid since my toss was nowhere out of the ordinary. Fortunately I held my composure and went to on to make 3 passes.

But it doesn’t always end up positive.

Many times it becomes an emotional battle of wits.

 

It use to be that you could not tip saying that the behavior of __________ (insert dealer/Boxman name) soured the game. However, these days such a saying is meaningless since ALL THE DEALERS POOL THE TIPS NOW, so saying such a thing has no impact at all.

These days if I get any harassment that appears to be singling me out or that I feel is unjust and unwarranted, I just color up and leave. I won't win any arguments with them, and I don't play high enough to have a host intervene on my behalf. Yeah, level of play and your players tier status does have a huge impact on how the dealers/The Casino will treat you. Playing at a buy-in at 5K makes a world of difference than with a buy-in at $500.

I also found that how I am dressed greatly changes how I am treated. If I look like I have money, I am treated like I have money. If I look like I am poor as in 'poor white trash', I am treated as such. It is not fair nor is it right, but that is how it goes.

Now, if you are playing at a high level and the dealers are known to be a bit jerky, then take a page from Don Johnson who would setup beautiful and busty women to play at his side where he instruct them to be raunchy, flirting and very friendly with the dealers to distract them from his own play. It worked well enough for him to take the casinos for 15 million!

 

I think that part of the problem is that in this game the dealers act as part of a "team" which can empower them to act out because there is safety in numbers. If they are friendly with each other, they will have each others back. Some can ignore you, be dismissive, sarcastic, kurt, annoying when if they were alone dealing BJ.....none of those behaviors would surface. Its a "pack mentality'. Some can be so brave in numbers yet so meek alone.
A vast majority during my years are just fine and professional. But for the a-holes it seems working as a team brings out the worst.

Although I must say that atlantic city compared to vegas has the worst attitudes out there in my experience in the80's and 90;s in AC, compared to my experience in reno and vegas over the last 15 years.

 

TSC, occasionally a die will slide if it is released too close to the layout and will look to everyone observing to be a potentially illegal roll. Could this possibly be the reason the stickman reacted as he did? If it was accidentally slid, then the stickman protected the game as is his responsibility. If you then were complaining due to the fact that you had made a Fire Bet for the crew, did you imagine that a $5 toke bet would the give you a pass when a hinkey looking roll was made? What planet you from, man? You tell everyone in hearing that because you made a toke bet you now feel you're immune to the house rules? After rereading your post, I now believe the lump and the chump stare back at you when you look in the mirror. You should toke if you're getting decent, friendly service, not if you think the dice crew is gonna let you take a shot at the games integrity.

 

Dice sliding only works on particular types of Craps table surface (hard board) and with particular types of dice. None of the dice today and the table surfaces allow for this.
Any dealer or boxman who tries to accuse a player of 'dice sliding' with today's dice on a felt or microfiber surface simply does not know what dice sliding is. The issue that boxmen tend to get grumpy about is short throws, and that is an issue with so called DI shooters who are mostly 'short throw artist' in my opinion. I have seen plenty of this in Las Vegas to know that in the long run such shooting will only get you banned from shooting if not banned from the casino all together.

 

I'll have to call bullshit here, Mark, sorry. I was on the periphery of a situation where a crew of sliders blew into northern NV about 5 years ago and scorched three joints that I know of. Sliding still happens. What TSC describes is a roll that is released too close to the felt.