Misc Details of Shackleford discussion & my final post

KJ, you posting here was a very good thing. The way you calmly made your case with no hyperbole gives you a lot of credibility and no doubt has opened a lot of eyes. It's too late for you at WOV but others will see your words and can make an informed decision before committing their valuable time to that board.

Completely understand if you choose to disappear for a while...however long you want. Good luck.

 

Perhaps the question is of how much time he spends at how many other forums. Jason seems a very prolific poster elsewhere. And perhaps where there's a lot more attention per se.

 

I've said it before. WOV is not an AP site. Not with all the goofy threads started, not with all the goofy posters. So networking would be the last reason for a professional player to join that decrepit board.

KJ's just giving out information about himself with...what do they call it? No ROI. He says that information has already gotten him robbed once. Every time he posts a story or incident he gives out more.

It doesn't matter if he lets time pass or if he changes a few facts. People still know. Heck, you know his first name and I'll bet you didn't go looking for it. Plenty of examples...he won a car...he got backed off in a men's room. That's pretty specific. No word on whether anyone tapped their foot...please don't tell us.

The point is anyone winning money comes under scrutiny and it doesn't have to be a lot. Use a player's card, don't use one. Different shifts/casinos? None of it matters. They get to know you quickly for a lot less than $100k a year. It's their job and they're good at it.

 

KJ----i agree with mike. If you were going to devote your time on other more populated sites then I can see your side of the issue. But if you are going cold turkey on sites...why not give something back to people that supported you on both sites....just 5 min a week here to get it started. You might get some real good back and forth....you might get no response....but either way you would be moving your business as a customer to another site, rather than getting mistreated as a customer at wov.....and going away...which is what they want you to do,

But if you just dont like doing this anymore....good luck to you going forward

 

I have participated in a number of sites, including a couple just getting started. I was one of the people encouraging Norm Wattenberger (Qfit) to start his blackjack site, back in Dec 2011 and I made the very first post. I went out of my way to post and participate often there for 4 years as his site was growing (it's now also on the decline as far as membership and quality). He has this strange rating system that I never approved of, and I had the second highest "helpful rating". And guess what that got me? As soon as I voiced some unfavorable opinion, I was run off the site.

At Wizards site, I wasn't around at the start, but I did post regularly for 4 years. Started out with mostly BJ topics, but eventually expanded to other topics that I enjoyed. I even did a question and answer interview that was requested of me, when I didn't think it was in my best interest to. I was pretty well liked and respected there as well and still when push came to shove, was run off.

I have invested my time and energy and effort into a few sites and got nothing but grief in return. So you will forgive me if I am not in the mood to invest my time and energy and efforts into another site right now. Maybe that will change at some point in the future.

What I don't intend to do is just show up here daily to bash Mike and WoV. You guys seem to have THAT covered. I had some points to make and some grievances to publicly air this site provided me the opportunity to do so. And now I intend to move on from that.

Again, I appreciate the invitation. I am not say "never". I have saved this site on my favorite list and will check back from time to time. If there is some blackjack, AP, or maybe even Vegas discussions that interest me, I will likely chime in. If nothing else, I will likely pop in from time to time, just to see what kind of trouble Mickey Crimm is getting into.

 

KJ: I apologize for my harsh comments viz. my perception of your posts having an excess of "drama."

I now understand that many here do in fact know who you are in real life, and that your reputation is important.

Mea culpa.

Happy variance.

 

LOL! KJ, I think my only problem is I can't keep my mouth shut when I'm drunk. Yes, the other forums on this site are lacking in content. I'm going to try to alleviate that to some extent. People like blackhole have legitimate questions about AP'ing. They just don't have the knowledge and experience to quite understand it yet. I can post up a lot of plays from my past to enlighten them on AP play.

Anyway, I hate to see you go. Take care.

 

I've been enjoying the site, and finally decided to register an account.

This will be my final post.

 

As I have posted numerous times, I Thank you for the things I have learned from you KJ. Obviously your call to post or not, but it's also obvious you will succeed regardless of what you decide.

I have said the same stuff about Mickey, his knowledge is an asset to many. But I also get why he was banned over at WOV. He may be a loud mouth when drunk, but anyone who questions his abilities is wrong.

I don't get the jealousy over Axel here from Larry. You always degrade him when I know you have no clue what he does or how much he makes. He is another guy protective of his identity and his plays. As he should be, it's his living. That said he also has helped people at times and has made money for people he feels he can trust.

The gambling world is filled with bragging, but there are good people out there making money everyday using their heads. KJ, Mickey and Axel are 3 of them, as are others out there who keep their heads down.

 

I never cared or criticized axel for how much he makes. I never refuted his income. I have no idea what you are talking about.

If someone is wrong about something .....I dont care how much money he has....it doesnt sway my opinion. You can be rich or poor...I dont care.

 

Accusing him of always looking for tickets in machines says a lot about what you think he makes.

Who decides if someone is wrong? You? Would be interesting to hear what you think Axel is wrong about?

 

the wiz says KJ threatened him and is now on a list of people he would never even talk to.

wow

 

Yeah.....here is his exact words.

"Third, let me say that KJ was in large part banned, and blew his chances to return, for threats (albeit not death treats) made via private communication. To reveal specifics would violate forum rules. Let me promise you this. As long as I have a say in the matter he will never be back. He is now in the same file as statman of ex-members who I so despise that I consider myself not on speaking terms with them."

This is about the third different reason Mike has now given for why I was banned from his site, including the initial goofy reason that my post on another site violated a rule that no one even knew existed. Just another case of his dishonesty. The fact is...and I think everyone who followed...knows this is that I was banned because I was critical and voiced a negative opinion of Mike's friend Norm Wattenberger (Qfit) and Qfit's site and members.

Mike placed his "friendship" and need to protect this person, who wasn't even a real member of the site over what was best for the forum itself and what the overwhelming majority of the forum members thought and wanted. This is strange because Wattenberger had several times stated that he didn't trust Mike and would not participate at WoV because of Mike's previous relationship with Venetian. In a strange way, Qfit has been proven to be correct that Mike has proven to be a very dis-honest and untrustworthy person.

I also want to address these "threats" that I made to Mike. Although Mike did state that they were not death treats, he sort of leaves it insinuated that it was some kind of physical threat. Nothing is further from the truth. I simply said that I wasn't going to let his mistreatment and dis-respecting of me go any time soon. On any site that I participate on in the future, even for the next 40 years, I will bring up what a dishonest person Mike is, if the subject comes up, much the same way as I will continue to express my negative opinion of Wattenberger and his site.

The really sad thing in my book is that everyone, myself included says things in the heat of the moment that they regret, but Mike having taken a 3 day vacation to think about and carefully word what he wanted to say, comes off as extremely small and petty in this whole "let me promise you this" statement. I am sure Mike doesn't care one iota what I think, but I continue to be extremely disappointed in him. This just isn't the person I thought him to be.

 

People ask why the pet names for the folks at wov. And I reply.....the names decribe what they are....and what they are explains how they act.

He is indeed a "manboy"....and his actions are that of a "manboy"....childish, thin skinned, juvenile ......throw a tantrum, and takes his toys and runs home.

 

Shackleford recently felt the need to declare that he "despises me", which has lead me to think about that for a few minutes. Despise and hate are strong words that are thrown around on this site (and now WoV) pretty easily.

Maybe it's me who is a little different that others, but I could never despise or hate someone because of words issued on a message board. I don't hate Shackleford. I don't hate Norman Wattenberger. Hell, I don't hate the intoxicated human being that ran a red light and took my father from me at a very young age, depriving me of a life with him or even really knowing him.

Again, I guess that I am a little different in that I will never close the door as far as communications with anyone that I have disagreements with or see things differently than. I always want to retain the option to understand and see things from a different perspective. I want to retain the option to grow.

 

who on this site says they despise or hate beached whale, manboy or husband of the year?

In fact when people cry foul about being disrespected or insulted by some anonymous poster....I am the first to say..how can you be insulted by someone who doesnt know you.

I dont remember using or seeing used words like despise and hate

 

Larry, I think if I looked just a little bit I could find some examples without too much trouble. But really a person doesn't actually have to use the words "hate" or "despise" for it to be hateful rhetoric. Some of the name-calling and personal insults rise to that level, IMO. Mind, you, I have been guilty of the juvenile name calling at times myself in the heat of the battle, when I am extremely frustrated (and I don't mean this as an excuse or justification).

I am a real freedom of speech guy, so I am ok, if that is the route some choose to take, but it is just not my preferred avenue. I would much rather be critical and question the persons actions than to resort to personal attacks based on appearance and such, more suited for 3rd grade recess period.

For me questioning someone's motive or integrity concerning incidents or events, or even going as far to call them dishonest or two-faced, based on the way they handled themselves is more than acceptable. But nasty remarks based on appearance or weight, or anything like that, just used to be hurtful without really having anytime to do with the incidents or events that you are being critical of or questioning, is unacceptable. Not only that, but stooping to that kind of 3rd grade level weakens your argument and takes away from any point or points that you are trying to make.

Again, I am not judging anyone. To each...his own. And I more than understand the frustration that could lead one to go there.

 

Beached whale, suspended herself for abusing her authority a couple years ago. It seems someone posted a picture with her in it from a wov get-together. And she claimed it was a "bad photo" of her and she censored the picture based totally on her vanity. She has opened up the pandoras box of "appearance". You may not see it that way. But I do. She has behaved poorly based on her appearance. And she self banned herself and the manboy chimed in that he accepted it.
She is a rather vain person and as she is so fast to punish others for their short comming in postings....I punish her for her self proclaimed vanity.

She behaves as she is. When she mistreats someone, it can be traced back to what she is. She can be petty, uneven in punishment, dismissive. harsh, for people that dont kiss up to her. For people like Buzz who called her sweety.....well she overlooked his nonsense. For spike/eb who now kisses up to her....she is blind for him. But for others she is picky and abrasive, and strick. And the reason is why??? Its because of what she is and the vanity in her mind around it....She gets to punish people, she gets to get back at men...men like the ones who shunned her in the past.
So her nickname describes why she does what she does. Why she is so bitter. So punishing. So socially backward along with the manboy.

Manboy describes why he does what he does
husband of the year describes why the poor dope does what he does.

the truth hurts.....and mistreatment of others brings out the truth,

nice people do not worry about this. But with petty horrible dismissive people...all bets are off

 

,We are going to have to agree to disagree Larry. I think it is more than fair to criticize actions that BBB may have taken or things that she has said. It is also fair to criticize her for being strong opinioned. But name-calling based on appearance is out of bounds in my opinion. The fact that she has shown a sensitivity to this particular issue does NOT open up the door....it should close it. You can like nothing about BBB, as is apparently the case and still be gentlemanly about your criticisms and concerns of her actions as moderator.

Just the same, one of the other mods has shared that he is going through some marital and financial transitions. So if someone had a critique or concern about some of his actions as moderator, it out of bounds to attack him on these personal matters. I just don't think personal attacks which are completely irrelevant of the issue of concern, adds anything. I think it weakens one's case.

Now the "socially backwards" comment concerning Mike, I think is fair game. He has proven this to be the case and since we are discussing his behavior running a social media type environment, it is relevant. It's kind of funny, I used very similar wording "socially awkward", concerning Qfit. Mike and Qfit are almost exact clones as far as some of their personality traits. They both are kind of nerdy, geeky math guys who don't interact well with people in person and they both run message board websites that allows them to be more aggressive, controlling, basically bully-types without fear of direct confrontation.

 

As a moderator who also became ensconced in the everyday workings and discussions of the forum, and often called other members misguided, etc, - wow - when it suited her unnatural support of Mike as a person and expert at something when no one else in any position of real authority would, she ought to be more than prepared to stand up and out. In particular, as a consequence of her constant lauding of and fawning over the "forum ringers" as Romes and Mickey et al whenever they claimed to have made a bit of money in the casino (to, presumably, entice new members to begin the crap journey of an AP at their expense but Mike's financial gain).

Saying, "I circulate in the gambling industry," isn't going to cut anything. Baloney, scam. They want the reputation of scholasticism, etc, but not the accounting when questioned.