Craps Dice Setting update

I don't see as much on the boards about dice setting as I once did.

Come to think of it, I don't see players attempting to set and roll dem bones in the casinos with a "controlled, replicable toss" the way I did five or ten years ago.

So I'm wondering if the classes and books on this subject are as popular as they once were, or have people wised up / moved on?

 

We have wised up and stick to dice centric forums. We got dice sitter to STFU!

 

Yeah, where did all that go?

 

I played three days last week with a group of eight other DI's. As one would expect, there were bankroll fluctuations commensurate with standard deviation for shooters with anywhere from 0 to 2% EV. Personally, it was a plus $2K trek. My first hand last Tuesday I tossed the All Tall Small. I hit the ATS once more over the three days, and hit either the Small or the Tall two more times. Several others in my group hit the ATS as well. We received absolutely NO heat on the trip, playing at three different properties. I only hears one "both dice have to hit the back wall" warning the entire trip, and that was on a random roller who just barely got the dice past the prop box.

If you get heat in the casino it's because you bring it on - either with your attitude, slow dice setting that kills the house's number of decisions per hour, or you just look funny. In the case of the guys who complain most about DI's - I'd say it's all three.

~Heavy
www.axispowercraps.com/crapsforum
www.crapsfest.com
www.axispowercraps.com

 

Something for all of you to think about.

Here you have a guy that is selling nothing but BS and telling everyone that what others are doing doesn't work and they are also selling nothing but BS.

http://vegascrapsplayer.blogspot.com/2017/08/beware-of-dice-control-claims-on-youtube.html?m=1

 

Rick, Rick, Rick. Where did you go astray? You USED to be a nice guy and knowledgeable player. Then you started hanging out with Harley and you turned into SuperDick. Thought you'd smarten up a bit since he showed his true colors with you. In fact, you still exhibit some "smarts" from time to time. But you couldn't be father from the truth here. Since you've never attended one of my classes or (to my knowledge) played a live session with me I don't know HOW you know what I teach or how successful I am at the tables.

Over the last 90 days I've won close to $15K at craps alone. Over $4K in Las Vegas. Roughly $6K in North Kansas City, $2K plus in Tunica, and another $2K plus in Shreveport/Bossier. All this with an initial bet of either $18 each on the six and eight or $66 even numbers. At one session in Vegas I took my four from $15 to the casinos's $1000 table max in ten rolls (six tens in ten rolls). On multiple occasions I've taken and $18 six or eight up to $1800. One one occasion I took an $18 eight up to $4200. All it takes is a little skill, sufficient bankroll, a well thought-out betting strategy, and the balls to execute it. And the funny thing about these sessions - in almost every case there was at least one of my students or one of my forum members was at the table for the majority of these sessions. My question to you, as an expert crapster and elevator repair man, is simply, "How much have you won?"

Now let's talk about your link. Here are a few quotes:

I just want to let my readers know that there has been a few guys posting a lot of what they call DICE CONTROL videos up on YouTube. You need to be very cautious about what these guys are presenting and showing you, because what they are saying and showing is NOT REALISTIC in a real casino!

Personally, I find the "dice control" videos on YouTube laughable for the most part. I've posted a few of my toss videos on my forum in the past, but they're available to forum subscribers only, not the general public. And I don't claim to be able to "control" the dice. I "influence" the dice. There's a substantial difference. I'm not looking to be able to call my shots. I simply want to toss fewer sevens and more box numbers. There IS an excerpt from my seminar DVD posted on YouTube, but it was done by the company that produced the video as an example of the kind of work they do - not as a promo for the seminar itself. Fact is, I have never heard of any of the people mentioned in you post. No doubt they're bottom rung Johnny come lately's. Meanwhile, I've been teaching dice influence successfully for over 15 years, and setting, betting, and beating the dice for closer to 25. This year marks my 50th year of playing craps, by the way, so I speak from a lifetime of experience.

A large percentage of my seminar attendees are alums who have taken a class before. I have twelve slots in my next class. At this point eight of them are filled with alums. Most of these guys come back because the classes are constantly evolving and they learn something new each session. They enjoy the camaraderie of getting together with like minded shooters - AND UNLIKE MOST OF MY COMPETITORS - I actually go to the casino and play live sessions with my students. Bottom line - the poster's quote had nothing to do with me. Next quote:

"First of all, what they call Dice Control is actually Rhythm Tossing and that is to trow the dice the SAME WAY each time. This sort of tossing is valid because throwing the dice the exact same way each time can de-randomize the dice to a slight degree where depending on the balance of the dice and the way the shooter sets the dice, if they can trow the dice exactly the same way each time, they will see that the dice will favor certain numbers over others.

The issue with Rhythm Tossing is that it is very hard to continually trow the dice the SAME WAY each time, and over time Rhythm Tossing will fall apart to where the slight de-randomizing that the toss give you is gone.

Actual Dice Control is VERY HARD to achieve, and REAL DICE CONTROLLERS will only shoot the dice till they hit their number then leave the table. Such a shooter who can consistently Sharp Shoot numbers make BIG bets on the winning number they are going for. Often once they win the BIG BET, they leave that table. Let me just say that READ DICE CONTROLLERS don’t play NORMAL CRAPS like everyone else does."

Well, once again I see a few lines that are, at the least, misleading. Dice Control and Rhythm Tossing (or Rhythm Rolling as we normally refer to it), are NOT the same thing.

Let's talk about a Dice Influencer - we'll call her "Ima Shootress." The dice come to her and she quickly sets them to her preferred arrangement, grips the dice lightly and focuses on her landing spot. Then she takes a deep breath, relaxes, and lofts the dice gently down table to that landing spot. The dice land softly, tumble straight forward to the back wall, tap the base of the wall lightly and bounce back about four inches. She practices this at home every day and can execute her toss fairly consistently. She has a Sevens to Rolls Ratio of 7. That yields her about a 1% positive EV on the game - IF she bets correctly.

Now let's talk about that 1% edge and what it yields. Instead of an average hand of around 8 tosses -her average hand is around 10 tosses. She cannot call her shots, but she knows from tracking her rolls both in practice and in the casino that her dominant numbers are the eight and the ten, so her wagers are focused primarily on those numbers. With a 1% advantage, playing an average of $22 for 50 decisions per hour she will win approximately $8 an hour. A three hour session will kick off about $25. That's based on the mean. But let's consider standard deviation. Standard deviation at craps with a 1% advantage will see a bankroll swing of roughly negative $340 to positive $460. A positive swing in excess of $460 is possible, it's just not the norm. However, armed with that knowledge it's pretty simple to come up with a betting strategy that will yield consistent wins.

It is not hard to toss the dice the same way every time if you PRACTICE. Unfortunately, most of the folks I see setting the dice can't even land them on the same spot on the table at the same time. Still, they often have an edge simply because they are setting the dice and ATTEMPTING to execute a controlled toss. Remember, it only takes a couple of influenced tosses out of thirty-six to give you a small positive EV. CAN anyone do this? Most people can. WILL everyone do it? Of course not. Why? A couple of reasons:

1. They won't practice.

2. If they do practice - they do not practice correctly or with a good technique. They're just throwing the dice.

3. Poor betting strategies. It's easy to piss away a 1% edge. Just make a few hop bets, prop bets, or hardway bets. So long positive EV.

4. No bankroll. If you're walking up to the table and buying in for $200, then betting $12 six and eight, $22 inside or $32 across it's damn near impossible to walk away a winner. Why? Because you are unwilling to walk away with something as small as a 20% win. You don't want to win $40. You want to win $400. As a result - greed and volatility bite you in the ass.

4. No discipline. I include money management as part of discipline. As mentioned above - there's a place in standard deviation between negative $340 and positive $460 where you can consistently walk away with a win. You just have to recognize it and have the discipline to do it.

Now let't talk about Rhythm Rollers. I stood next to one at the casino last Thursday. Her name was Tamika. This gal had a beautiful rhythmic toss. Every time the dice were pushed to her she took them as presented, picked them up the same way and tossed them to the same spot on the table. I stood next to her for about two hours. During that time she tossed three hands in the 20 - 30 roll range. For some reason, she was kicking off a LOT of hardways, eights, and nines. She had one point-seven-out. She did not set the dice, but she did pretty much everything else a dice influencer does. Her results were as good or better than most DI's. However, at the end of the day she was still a random roller. The law of large numbers will eventually catch up with her. She'll have a day where she tosses nothing but short hands and her SRR will fall in line with expected norms. At the end of the day she's a random roller who happened to catch a ride on the high side of the game's volatility for a day. I just happened to be in a position to capitalize on it.

The quoted poster's last paragraph sounds like sanctimonious posting from someone who's attempted to influence the dice but failed. I suspect it's one of the guys like Mark V who posts under a dozen different names - often on the same site. Sock puppets abound on the Internet (as you know from personal experience, Rick). That's why I vet new members on my forum. That's why very few spammers and flamers gain access - and if someone does behave badly there they find themselves shown to the door in short order. Several members of this forum fall into that category and will no doubt chime in with something to the effect of "Heavy bans anyone who disagrees with him." To that I'll just say that there are many people on the forum NOW that I disagree with. However, they have disagreed without being disagreeable. Also, although I rarely post on them, I do monitor other forums. If someone comes into my house and pretends to be my friend, then goes to my neighbor's house and trash-talks me he is not going to be welcome back at my house. I suspect most of the readers here would feel the same way. More quotes:

VERY DANGEROUS

Many of the betting methods that these guys present are out right DANGEROUS. It is a highly unrealistic fantasy craps play that they show, where what they show you in the video is perhaps the ONE SUCCESS GOOD ROLL they had out of perhaps 30 bad rolls!!! Some of the videos are highly edited where clearly the Seven-out was deleted and they just deleted that part of the video!!!

UNREALISTIC

The hype and expectations of big wins, that they show is simply unrealistic. Attempting to play like how they show you will only lead to massive losses. Sure, you may get lucky and win however the odds are greatly against you where massive losses with using the way they show you how to play is most likely.

WHY THEN ARE THEY DOING THIS
The only reason why guys are posting up the volume of videos on Dice Control is to dominate the subject and to build up traffic so they can profit from the Ad Revenue Share through YouTube.

Yeah, the poster (again, this sounds so much like MarkV it's ridiculous) says the videos on-line of DANGEROUS. LOL. Come out to the gun range with me some day and I'll show you what dangerous is. Do you think people are so stupid that they don't know this kind of content is edited. Of course the guy posting the video is not going to show you his short hands (which gives me an idea about doing a DVD on playing the Don'ts where all of the rolls are short hands, LOL). As to how you know the sevens were edited out of a video - well, a videographer/uber driver like Mark would no doubt know that.

UNREALISTIC! LOL. Did I not just post that with a 1% edge you could expect to average about $25 in the win column per 3 hour session? You see, this is what happens when someone who has never taken one of my classes starts critiquing them. Now what's funny is that the quoted poster talk about the odds being greatly against you (not if you have a positive EV) and that you will likely have "massive losses" along the way using the way we show you to play." Again, comments from someone who has no idea what I teach in my classes. CAN you have "massive losses," along the way? Sure. There are many sessions I can cite where I had huge losses. They usually came when I lost my discipline for a session and abandoned the same techniques I teach. And they don't bother me that much because unlike most of the people playing craps (and the idiot you referred us to in your post) I actually understand bankroll volatility and how it works.

AD REVENUE SHARING ON YOUTUBE? Yeah, I've got that program on my websites with Amazon. Kicks off about $9 a year. I'm certainly going to get excited about that. I'd rather go sit at the end of the table and bet the Don'ts when SuperRick has the dice.

~Heavy
www.axispowercraps.com/crapsforum
www.axispowercraps.com
www.crapsfest.com

 

Let's start with the fact that I did not write anything about you in my post but was just pointing out what Mark or what ever name he is going by and Harley are condemning others and then turning around and selling their BS! Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote!

Then you should stop and think before you start attacking me for pointing out something that the two of them are doing that had nothing to do with you!









The only guy that I know that made money off of your shooting was VDC when he was betting the don't on you in Vegas!

 

"Let's start with the fact that I did not write anything about you in my post but was just pointing out what Mark or what ever name he is going by and Harley are condemning others and then turning around and selling their BS! Maybe you should go back and read what I wrote! Then you should stop and think before you start attacking me for pointing out something that the two of them are doing that had nothing to do with you!"

You need to go back and read your own post (or edit it so that it says what you SAY it said after the fact). I posted on this thread in response to Mr. V and Ahigh stating that they don't see many dice setters in the casino any more. You IMMEDIATELY jumped in and posted:

"Here you have a guy that is selling nothing but BS and telling everyone that what others are doing doesn't work and they are also selling nothing but BS."

Sure sounds to me like an attack on me - and based on your prior history of attacks I've got to believe it WAS directed at me.

I find it fall-down funny that you keep on the "dice control/influence doesn't work kick," but just last year you were teamed with Harley, Mark, and others for a craps seminar in Vegas where you advertised you would be teaching the axis toss, the Z toss, the split toss, and more. You also offered slow motion/stop action video of players tosses provided to participants in digital format. You said you would play live sessions with the students, and would be teaching betting strategy classes. You talked about having a no-sevens contest, a toss accuracy contest, and more. DAMN. Maybe you HAVE taken one of my classes.

So dice control/dice influence doesn't work for anyone but YOU? What utter BS.

"The only guy that I know that made money off of your shooting was VDC when he was betting the don't on you in Vegas!"

He wouldn't be the first one. LOL. I remember that session well. Rio. I was at SL1. VDC was at SL2 or 3. I don't recall him playing the Don'ts, but he may have been. Doesn't matter. It was my last hand of the trip on my last day in town. It was a relatively short hand - 10 - 12 rolls, as I recall. I made money on it. I turned a profit for the session. Honestly, I hope he did too.

Anyone who understand the math of the game (which you clearly do not) knows that players have long hands and short hands and it's the long run that counts. Likewise, you see both the Dark Siders and the Right Siders turning profits off the same hand all the time. The shooter sets a point, tosses 29 numbers and sevens out without making a Pass. He makes $900 on his Place action and another $1225 pm the All Tall Small. Meanwhile the Don't player makes $10 on his Flat bet and another $20 on his Lay Odds. Of course, the opposite is true as well. There are sessions where neither side wins - just the house.

The fact is, I've never claimed to be the best shooter in the world. I'll leave that lie to Scoblete - although I don't know if he'll claim it for his former partner Dominator, the much embellished and fictionalized Captain, or himself. But what you just told me about VDC confirms what I've said many times about how you and your pals "stalk" me every time I'm in Vegas for a seminar. Hell, your former friend and house sitter Harley even sent text messages to Howard during one of our classes telling him he was on his way over to crash the event. You guys need to rid yourselves of your obsession with me, Howard, and other guys who are successful at craps and spend more time working on your game. Do that and maybe your pals won't be posting on your site, commiserating about Palace Station doing away with their $3 game. Good grief. Why would you even go near it?

 

Heavy, read and think before you post you are digging a deep hole and I don't think that you want to go there, you sure got me laughing when you brought one of the worst betters into this mess that you are getting into. You could have just asked for a clarification on my post but no you had to go on the attack on me.

You, know I wouldn't get close to any table the two of you are on, VDC just happened to be there and was betting on what he was seeing, maybe you should try the same thing!
Do you really want to bring Howard into this?

Just think just because you took that I was writing was about you started this BS attack on me when the post was about MarkV and Harley!

I have nothing to do Harley, I should have listened to some of you guys on the Harley thing and MarkV or whatever he is going by.

I've always said that you don't have to be a So-called DI to win at craps now what do you have to say about that?

 

By the way, thanks for everything you wrote, you really know how to dig deep holes for yourself. And to think there was nothing in my post about you all you had to do was to sit back and watch where the thread was going, but no, you wanted to go where it shouldn't be going. So be it, is all I can say to you!

 

Your not worth any of our time, you sound just like the great fiction writer Mp. Nobody would waste their time on you or Howard, after all as you just wrote you never claimed to be the best shooter in the world.

 

Memo to our dear readers:

When reading a thread on an on-line forum you may occasionally encounter an individual who cannot control his exuberance when attacking others. In his haste to post he may, in fact, make multiple posts repeating the same thing. This same poster will attempt to misdirect readers by bringing non-subject matter into the conversation. He will never answer any direct questions. Instead, he will go on the attack and revert to his usual tired arguments.

Memo to SuperRick:

What the hell are you talking about? Did you read ANYTHING I posted? Let's take it from the top:

Over the last 90 days I've won close to $15K at craps alone. Over $4K in Las Vegas. Roughly $6K in North Kansas City, $2K plus in Tunica, and another $2K plus in Shreveport/Bossier. All this with an initial bet of either $18 each on the six and eight or $66 even numbers. At one session in Vegas I took my four from $15 to the casinos's $1000 table max in ten rolls (six tens in ten rolls). On multiple occasions I've taken and $18 six or eight up to $1800. One one occasion I took an $18 eight up to $4200. All it takes is a little skill, sufficient bankroll, a well thought-out betting strategy, and the balls to execute it. And the funny thing about these sessions - in almost every case there was at least one of my students or one of my forum members was at the table for the majority of these sessions. My question to you, as an expert crapster and elevator repair man, is simply, "How much have you won?"

You said in one of your last three up-to-now unanswered posts:

"I've always said that you don't have to be a So-called DI to win at craps now what do you have to say about that?"

Easy one. You didn't specify over what period of time. It could be as little as a single session or over the course of a lifetime. I will assume (always a mistake with you) that you're talking about the so-called "long run." And if that is your position I'll simply say that you've proved everything I've said about your being innumerate. You cannot win a negative expectation game over the long run (and I'm talking about thousands of sessions here). You may go to the tables and win a single session. You may win six or eight sessions in a row. But the dice don't know that you're going to take one hit and regress. The dice don't know that the shooter just tossed 23 numbers. The dice don't even know when some guy tosses 18 Yo's in a row (since I don't claim to be the greatest shooter in the world I'll admit that the most I've ever tossed is ten in a row - and yes, it was witnessed by one of my students). The dice just don't know. And since they don't know, you're going to get tagged by the seven when you least expect it. Regressions may work today. Tomorrow every shooter you bet on may go PSO. The dice don't know - and neither do you. The math of the game is incontrovertible.

What else did you come up with in your last three (up until now) unanswered posts?

You, know I wouldn't get close to any table the two of you are on, VDC just happened to be there and was betting on what he was seeing, maybe you should try the same thing!

Hmmm. Let me pull out the official Heavy Way-Back Crystal Ball for a minute. Yes, I see it. The image is fuzzy but you are there. Which casino was that? Ahhh. I see it now. Paris. Yes! You WERE there - wearing that stupid hat you wear all the time. I was there with a group of students playing a live session. One of those students - who later went on to become friends with your pal Harley - pointed you out to me. At which point I had the group color up and we left the casino.

As I already pointed out, I have no idea how VDC bet on that session. Nor do you since you were not there. You're simply relying on what he had to say. But at the end of the day - who cares? Certainly not me.

Do you really want to bring Howard into this?

Why not? Howard is my friend. Together he and I do 4 - 6 seminars a year. We make a few bucks off the seminars. We make a LOT more at the tables. In fact, I've probably made more money off Howard's dice toss over the last six months than you've made at those Vegas $3 games over the last six years. Talk trash about Howard and you'll alienate anyone who's ever taken a class with him or bellied up to the tables with him in the casino. The most common descriptions I hear from players when talking about Howard: "He's such a nice guy." and "He's just a big old Teddy Bear." But that bear can shoot the damn dice.

"By the way, thanks for everything you wrote, you really know how to dig deep holes for yourself. And to think there was nothing in my post about you all you had to do was to sit back and watch where the thread was going, but no, you wanted to go where it shouldn't be going. So be it, is all I can say to you!"

The guys you CLAIM to have been posting about - Harley and (I assume) MarkV - are basically gnats on the ass of the dice control community. They are pathetic, jealous wannabees. Harley portrayed himself as something he wasn't for years - a Vegas home owner and professional gambler. He didn't own squat. A check of the tax rolls revealed that. He was house sitting a short-sell for someone. His beautiful craps table belonged to a gal in Texas. Where the hell did THAT go? He couldn't run a chicken-shit sandwich successfully. Everytime he busted out in Vegas he had to go live with his mother in Texas until he somehow managed to put together another bankroll. His one claim to fame was that he had developed all of this proprietary information on biased dice - which was all based on incorrect assumptions. Yeah, this was your house sitter, best bud, and idol. MarkV is cut from the same cloth. He desperately wants to "be somebody" in the craps community. He trashes everyone who teaches dice control - but he's trying to teach it himself under one of his many on-line personas. Hey Mark. Guess what? You may change your "handle" on a forum but your writing style is still the same as ever. Boring. So why would I ever think that post was meant for me when the article you referred everyone to specifically mentioned (no doubt deliberately mis-stated) Power Axis Craps? Good grief.

Let me repeat one thing you said there. "So be it, is all I can say to you!"

But that was NOT all you could say. You had to come back for one more post. LOL.

Your not worth any of our time, you sound just like the great fiction writer Mp. Nobody would waste their time on you or Howard, after all as you just wrote you never claimed to be the best shooter in the world.

It's "you're." There should be a period after "time," not a comma. New sentence beginning with "You." "Mp" does not spell anything. If you mean "MP" as in "Mad Professor," just let me ask how many copies of YOUR book on craps have YOU sold? And for shits sake, man. When are you going to quit riding this guy about a post he made almost fifteen years ago? He's completely absent from the scene these days - and not as a result of ANYTHING you've posted. As for people "wasting their time" on me and Howard? Again, we keep filling classes and 60 - 80 percent of the class attendees are repeat students. Guys don't come back for 4, 6, 8, 10 or more sessions with you because you're wasting their time. Maybe one of the reasons they come back is because we're honest enough to tell them we're not the greatest shooters in the world (although we aren't bad). How many repeat students did YOU get after that class you did with Harley and friends last year?

I've asked you a few questions, Rick. So far you've answered none. As expected.

 

My, god Heavy you are full of shit and this quote proves it.

There were two of your students at the Paris casino that day and pappyvanwinkle. You were not there and I didn't know that they had anything to do with you until I was coloring up.

At that time I got into a conversation with the young lady that was taking your class. At the time she was with what I thought was her husband, which he turn out to be a guy that like many others on your board had written some BS about me without ever meeting me.

She couldn't find the guy who I'm not going to name who was going to give here a ride to your class.

Because she didn't know where he went to I offered her a ride to your class where you were. You were never in that casino that morning and you have never seen me, so good try, keep digging lets see how deep the hole will get!

I don't sell anything and the free class that we put on was to help out players that had problems playing and understanding how to play the game.

They learned the right way to bet the game that day and everyone that took the class won money that day.

I have nothing to do with Harley or MarkV or what ever name he is now going by. There will never be another class put on because of what Harley pulled there.

So you had it made until you went nuts on two threads on this board.

You don't know when to stop and I can see you digging a deeper hole, so please keep it up so everyone can see the true Heavy!

By, the way I love that you have 60 to 80% of your students that need to keep coming back taking your class over and over again because what you teach does not work and they are still trying to find that Magic bullet when there is none!

 

"There were two of your students at the Paris casino that day and pappyvanwinkle. You were not there and I didn't know that they had anything to do with you until I was coloring up."

Well, thanks for confirming that you were, indeed, at Paris that day. In fact, it was pappyvanwinkle who pointed you out to me. I was there. You can ask him if you don't believe it.

"You were never in that casino that morning and you have never seen me, so good try, keep digging lets see how deep the hole will get!"

Again, this is a lie. Who's in the hole now?

"I don't sell anything and the free class that we put on was to help out players that had problems playing and understanding how to play the game."

$50 an hour is not free. See the ad:

http://vegascrapsplayer.blogspot.com/2016/05/american-craps-academy-aca-2016.html

"So you had it made until you went nuts on two threads on this board."

We'll leave it to the readers to decide who went nuts. At least you managed (with several edits) to say everything you wanted to say in one post this time.

"By, the way I love that you have 60 to 80% of your students that need to keep coming back taking your class over and over again because what you teach does not work and they are still trying to find that Magic bullet when there is none!"

I knew you would take the low road and attempt to turn a positive into a negative. It's how you look at the world. I have guys in my group who have taken as many as twenty classes with me. They'll tell you that they learn something new every time they come out, but the main reason they keep coming is because it keeps them sharp as shooters, they enjoy the camaraderie with like minded players, and for the most part they go home winners at the end of the class.

You used to be a semi-nice guy, Rick. Did Harley twist your mind that much? He could claim a past head injury for his obsessive/compulsive behavior. What's your excuse?

By the way, my next Vegas seminar is coming up the weekend of November 10th. If you'd like to know what casinos we'll be playing at so you can avoid us let me know.

~Heavy

www.axispowercraps.com/crapsforum
www.axispowercraps.com
www.crapsfest.com

 

I won't be in Vegas then so good luck!

 

Thank you, sir.