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Baccarat My Adventures with AI and RZ10000

Discussion in 'Baccarat Forum' started by fathead, Mar 24, 2023.

  1. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    This thread will describe my interaction on and off forum with poster RZ10000 and his "AI". You can read his posts here: https://www.gamblingforums.com/search/61380413/

    This thread will fall into the category of "Learn from my mistakes".

    From my experience, if RZ10000 (Bob) communicates with you in any way, just assume that what he is saying is false. There may be pinches of truth mixed in here and there for flavor, but there is no way to discern which is truth and which is fantasy, so just assume that it is all false. This helpful policy will prevent a lot of headaches, wasted time, and emotional distress. Again, learn from my mistakes.

    Installment #1 of my adventure coming soon.
     
  2. cps10

    cps10 Well-Known Member

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    So are you saying stay away from this poster Bob’s teachings?
     
  3. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Ha. Yes! Remember this simple rule. If Bob (RZ10000) communicates with you in any way, assume that his words are false. You will have a much easier life.
     
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  4. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Installment #1

    If you are a regular on the this forum, you may recall a new member RZ10000 (who later identified himself to me as Bob) who had 100 posts from early to mid September of 2022. The bulk of them were in a thread that I started (Follow the Last Anyone?) where I posted a shoe with almost no chops. Sometimes I will post an interesting shoe on the forum and start a conversation.

    RZ10000 seemed to be knowledgeable about baccarat and had some interesting ideas. One that stood out to me was his assertion that when testing on live shoes, the shoes had to be in linear order. He stated that he had tested this extensively. If the shoes were mixed up, their properties would not match virtual shoes. But if you collected shoes at the casino and arranged them in the order that they were dealt at a particular table, their properties would match virtual shoes. I found this very interesting.

    Bob posted that he previously had a currency trading firm where they had developed an AI software program to aid in the trading. His firm was in San Francisco and he lived in Lake Tahoe. So he was immersed in the casino environment, became friends with some casino executives and pit bosses, and developed an interest in baccarat.

    Bob's AI software had been adapted to baccarat and supposedly earned 8 to 10% per day in profit, his goal for the day. He had no concern that it would lose. He just bet as the AI indicated and stopped when he was 8 to 10% up. His main concern was getting kicked out of the online casinos. He mentioned that he had already been kicked out of two West Virginia casinos and was trying to prevent this from happening again.

    Anyway, Bob indicated that one casino executive in Lake Tahoe had a collection of 38,000 live shoes that patrons from all over the world had given him. Bob had converted all those cards to a data file which he done computer testing on.

    If you are familiar with me on this forum, you know that I have over 4000 live shoes that I run simulations on, testing various baccarat ideas. As you might guess, I wanted a copy of that 38,000 live shoe data file.

    I sent Bob a private message here on the forum, asking him if it might be possible for me to get a copy of the 38,000 shoe file. He said he would be glad to do that, and asked what format that would be best. I sent a snippet of the data format that I use, with an explanation.

    His response ... "I will write a script to put it into that format and will send you an email.address which is faster and easier than the forum. You are welcome to anything I might have. We have not communicated that much, but I have enjoyed meeting you here. Conversation has to be relatively guarded when it is that public."

    That was September 11 (hmm) and thus my adventure (or misadventure) begins.
     
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  5. soxfan

    soxfan Well-Known Member

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    I thought that "Bob" character was a coconut, talkin bulls-shits from the gets-go, fulls-stop. Too many retard wanna waste cats time with foolishness and nonsenses, hey hey.
     
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  6. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    I remember that, soxfan. In hindsight I wish that I had the same skepticism. I was a bit gullible, I am afraid. I will explain in future installments.
     
  7. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Installment #2

    Continuing with the story. So now Bob and I are communicating with each other via email about gambling and various things. I noticed that he had a very short identifier to his email address (bob@********.***) so must have his own internet domain. I thought that this must be his old firm's domain. He mentioned that after he closed his firm, he and his wife just followed the casino circuit and eventually wound up in Pennsylvania due to Covid. His quote below...

    "I landed up in Pa because of the hospitalization and my wife's death. I am staying with a friend. I do not care for the weather but it is very good access to the online casinos. I am not sure how much longer I will stay here. I would like to finish developing the software."

    We emailed back and forth about a lot of things. He was remodeling his friend Dan's house (who was a Pastor). Dan was letting him live with him for now and was a big help when he and his wife were in the hospital with covid. I told him that I could relate (my wife and I are remodeling an old house) and we talked a little about that. He said he had been there about 7 weeks.

    Bob said that he had an anomaly that might help me in my baccarat testing and was going to send that to me. His words ... "It identifies which side will be predominate between player and banker in small sections of play. It had no value to me directly but it was there. Let me check that out a little bit better, maybe you can use that in what you are working on if that would be a benefit".

    So I said sure, send it on. It looked like I would be getting a big database to test on and some new baccarat ideas also. Then out of the blue Bob offers to bet an account for me with his AI. It would not be much trouble at all, he said. His quote below...

    "If you need to increase your cash flow stream, I have no problem with directing the AI software at it. Open an online casino with a minimum amount until you can see what it does. You can stop it anytime you wish. From there you can decide where you want it to go. It cause me no additional aggravation. Plus it gives the machine more real data to crunch."

    I told him that I certainly would consider the offer. I did not know what to think at this point. I mentioned one of the offshore casino accounts that I had. I asked him to look at the RNG games there (Bob only bets RNG). Later I asked if he had been able to create the 38,000 shoe data file for me. He said he could not right now, no power. He was limping along on batteries until the new power panel was installed and the power company reconnected the line.

    We went back and forth a little bit on this. Bob did eventually look at the offshore casino and had bad feelings about it. He said he had lost some money in 2006 when the US tightened up all the offshore gaming regulations. He wanted to use one of the PA online casinos. After I thought about this a little, I realized that with an offshore he could just withdraw with Bitcoin and the money could be gone. With a PA casino I would have more control. He recommended an opening amount of $1000.

    I agonized about this decision for a couple of days. I was thinking that this was sort of crazy, opening a $1000 account and handing the login to a stranger on the internet. But then I remembered that I had paid $1400 for the Bac Doctor's SSHPH system (which proved unworkable for me). I decided to look at this as a sort of a speculative investment, which could be lost at any time.

    After about 3 days I did finally open an account at one of the casinos that Bob had mentioned. I set it up so that I would get an email anytime Bob logged in. He asked that I not enable 2FA confirmation on login, to make logging in easier for him. I funded it with $1000 and sent Bob the login details via one of the encrypted messenger apps.

    And so the die is cast and we move into the next phase of this relationship. More in the next installment.
     
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  8. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Installment #3

    Okay, to continue, now my account is funded and Bob has access. He sent me these emails / messages...

    "I am setting up a dedicated laptop for ********** on Dan's wi-fi. Never used yet. That laptop is cabled to my prime laptop that is dedicated to the LA computer. Initially I will do the placement by hand until I am sure of everything. I let your laptop read the graphic memory of ********** output. Once I am sure everything is working correctly, then your laptop will place the plays automatically."

    "Up and running! No difficulties. I feel better with them than I would in Panama. A few connections on the prime side and I will start it up. The game I chose is running IGT software, I already know they are solid, but I will still check. I will send a note in a couple of hours."

    So now I am wondering what comes next. Maybe Bob is telling the truth and I will end up with some sort of profit after all is complete. I try to take things as they come and not worry about it. $1000 is not life changing money for me anyway.

    About two hours later, Bob sends me an update. He has been betting from $1 to $3 sometimes up to $15 and the account is up to $1140. After another hour, Bob says my account is up to $1240. He is stopping for the day. He states that he will probably move the base bet up to $5 tomorrow. Of course I was very happy about this.

    The next day Bob sends me a couple of messages (we are communicating almost exclusively by encrypted messenger by now). He said he had a good morning betting and the account was at a new high. Bob seemed very confident with no losing sessions so far. Then he drops this bomb on me. His quote...

    "At some point I would like to come down. I will setup the computers and slave them thru here, then you can run it yourself. Few more days and you will feel more comfortable with it."

    I was sort of stunned at this comment. I did not know what to say. I told him that yes, we could set it up here. That he was being very generous. His reply below...

    "I do not want it disappearing when I am no longer around. I already know you are careful and will keep it in good control. You kind of get the whole deal."

    Bob was 70 at the time and had almost died of covid, so I could see that. I told him that I would do my best with it. That I would be honored. He said that he would need to write a user interface. Currently it was just code. He never thought that anyone else would use the software.

    After he ended the conversation, I was sort of in shock and almost cried. After all these years testing various baccarat ideas I had somehow made the acquaintance of a wealthy currency trader who was going to give me access to his AI server to bet baccarat. 8 to 10% per day profit. Maybe for years if the casinos allowed it.

    Later that day Bob gave me another update. The account was up to $1820. He had been betting a $2 base unit. He mentioned that in West Virginia he had been flat betting, winning about 70% of his bets, running $800 up to $17,000 but got kicked out. His plan now was to make the betting look more normal by betting in a range.

    Bob told me to think about what kind of daily profit that I wanted. The bankroll was 1000x the base bet. He said he was pulling out $900 to $1100 per day on a $10,000 bank. He then went back to betting, letting me know a little later that my account was up to $1900 and he was stopping for the day.

    So the account had almost been doubled in about 24 hours. He said that he would let the balance build for a couple of more days. Then I could try my first withdrawal to see if that went smoothly. The casino that I had chosen was not one that he had wagered at yet.

    Now fast forward to the next morning. I am awakened by my phone with this message from Bob....

    "Password locked up. Needs to be reset. Not sure what the difficulty was. Go to the login in page and press reset password."

    This is September 18th. To be continued in the next installment.
     
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  9. JacobBlaze

    JacobBlaze Active Member

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    Interesting read fathead, you are a good writer and story teller.
     
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  10. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, JacobBlaze. I am hoping that my experience will help others. Also it is a form of journaling, I guess, bringing my thoughts together and maybe making peace with the situation.
     
  11. soxfan

    soxfan Well-Known Member

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    The big reds-flag for this bob character was his claim to capture 8-10% profits per day and NEVER EVER having a losing day/session. I won't call out a cat just for claims of winning welll and regular. I know it's possible cuz I've devoted going on 13 years where I play baccarats on the fulls-time basis and have capture just under 3.4 million$ Cdn tax free cake nets profits in my pockets. But along the way I have been clipped suffering serious draw-downs and adverisities. I always say that even the proficient 21 crads counter sometimes get clipped hard for drawd-down of -1000 unit or more and sometimes go weeks or even months on a bounce where they are in the deficit. So cats what claim to NEVER get clipped are either the bullshits artist like the spike/limey/etc. or they are the cons-artist like this bob character, simple and plain, hey hey!!!!
     
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  12. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Soxfan, yes, good observations. I realize now that there were some red flags but I did not want to see them. Bob is also very good at what he does, creating an elaborate fantasy world to manipulate others.
     
  13. Gullywin

    Gullywin Member

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    Thank you for sharing your experience with RZ10000 and his "AI". It is always helpful to hear about other people's experiences and learn from their mistakes. It is unfortunate that you had a negative interaction with this poster, and I appreciate you warning others to be cautious in their dealings with him. I look forward to reading your upcoming installment and gaining more insights into this situation.
     
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  14. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. It is as much therapy for me as anything else. 6 months of uncertainty and turmoil dealing with this guy.
     
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  15. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    sorry, error.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2023
  16. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Installment #4

    Continuing on. Bob has been betting in my account for a couple of days and things are going well. It has almost doubled in value. He always lets me know when he stops betting for the day "so we won't bump into each other". I generally log in at night to double check the balance and look at some of his betting transactions. Everything seems to be proceeding as planned.

    But this morning I am awakened by a message on my phone from Bob (he also sent an email). He is saying that he is having trouble with the password and cannot log in. He wants me to reset the password, creating a new one. So I do this, trying a test login on my end. The new password works fine and I send it on to Bob.

    Bob says that the casino website would not take the new password. He tried again after resetting everything but it is "Locked up again". He says he will shut down and reset everything. I decided that I should simplify the password to see if that would help (I was using a complicated auto-generated one). I am thinking that maybe he is having trouble typing it in correctly. So I create a simpler one but do not log in from my location this time. I send this new password on to Bob.

    Bob says this simpler password did work. He said that he did not know what all the trouble was about, that he did reset everything this time. He would start up the software now, thanks and go have breakfast.

    Well it was not ten minutes before Bob was contacting me again. He thinks the software detected the two logins from different IP addresses too close together and has locked the account. He states that I will need to contact customer support to unlock the account. He had only been betting for 5 minutes and won maybe $18 when it locked up (I now think this was Bob's plan all along, but I will never know for sure).

    I tried logging in from my location and got the same message. Customer support options were limited but I sent an email to the casino, explaining that the account was locked, sending in copies of my ID.

    While we were waiting, I sent Bob an email asking about his betting. When I logged in the previous night, it looked to me like the software was running mini progressions. Here are the ones I saved and sent to him... -5, -20, -75, +166.25 ... -4, -15, -25, +52.25 ... -3, -10, -20, +45.

    He did send me back an email explaining that some of those larger bets were just testing the software for honesty, seeing if it would pay the 93% winning situations that pop up from time to time, or if those bets always lose. Others were based on a higher win percentage expected for the next decision, some were just for cover. If we had steady profits in an endless stream they would shut us down. He also mentioned that he did not mind the small losses, he actually looked forward to them. They give him more information than a single win. I thanked him for his explanation.

    Later in the day I gave Bob an update, telling him that I had not heard back from the casino yet. I also asked if he would mind creating the data file for the 38,000 live shoes so I would have that to test on. He said he was working on the table layout for the new casino that I had chosen but once that was finished he would work on the data file for me.

    The casino ended up wanting more information from me. I even had to send a photo of myself with a document in the picture. I could not get the photo to show the document very well so had to enlist my wife to take the picture. She finally put it into portrait mode and got it sharp enough. I had not mentioned Bob or any of this to her yet so had to bring her up to speed. She listened but did not want to get too involved with this.

    Later that day the casino did unlock my account. I tried a test login and everything seemed to be back to normal. I contacted Bob by messenger and let him know. I asked him not to log back in until tomorrow morning just in case. We agreed to space out our logins more carefully in the future.

    The next morning when I got up, I saw that Bob was already logged in, back at work. He logged in two more times by early afternoon (I was getting an email each time he logged in). About mid-afternoon he sent me a message, saying that he would like to call me, that there was too much to explain in an email. We had our first phone call a little before 5pm that day.

    He wanted to explain that the casino's software was acting up, putting in big bets occasionally at random and he was having to scramble to try to cancel the bets. He mentioned one $600 bet that went through before he could cancel it. Fortunately it won. I groaned at this, saying that type of error could wipe out the account. He agreed.

    Bob was thinking that there was some sort of software bug that they were working on. Fortunately everything worked out but he was going to have to really watch the betting closely in future sessions. The account at that point was up to $2650.

    Bob and I had a long conversation about many things during our call. He seemed like a really nice guy, very knowledgable in many subjects. I don't think I even looked at the betting transactions that night (I did not want to lock up the account again). I just took Bob's word for it. When I did finally look at it, the sequence was like this.... -45, -125, -175, -300, -600, +1200 (looking at this now, I think Bob was chasing a bit).

    Bob sent me a message later that night, telling me how much he enjoyed our phone conversation. He was shutting down betting for the night. The account was up to $2750.

    More in the next installment.
     
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  17. soxfan

    soxfan Well-Known Member

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    Query, at this point was the "bob" still inputting manually or was the ai running the show, hey hey?
     
  18. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    I honestly don't know, soxfan. Bob claimed early on that he was betting somewhat manually with the AI making the the bet selection and sizing decisions. Later his goal was to have things totally automated, so he could start it and walk away.

    My feeling now is that there never was any AI and Bob was doing all the betting. I think this is the most likely answer but I will probably never know.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2023
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  19. soxfan

    soxfan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I got the sense that there never was any ai and he was just makin up shit as he went along, maybe just usin a martingale or some such progression by the looks of thing, hey hey.
     
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  20. fathead

    fathead Well-Known Member

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    Installment #5

    Bob is continuing to bet my account with good results. As I mentioned before, he is having problems with the casino's software. He says large bets are being entered and he is having to cancel them before his software puts them through. Something with the table graphics. This has not affected profits yet so I was not too worried about it.

    If you remember, I had asked Bob about the 38,000 live shoes again. He said he would work on this and have the data file to me by midnight. Later he tells me that he had some maintenance done on his server at the house in LA. He had the hard drives in the RAID system upgraded to solid state drives and now he cannot find the 38,000 shoe data. Those shoes must on the old drives (which he still has) but they are not hooked up to the internet anymore. So for now he cannot get that data to me.

    At this point I was not logging in that much to the account or studying the bets. I did not want to lock up the account. Also, every time I did log in the balance was always at a new high and exactly where Bob said it was. I figured Bob knew the limits of his software so he would know better than me about bet size. I did not realize it at the time, but the bets were really getting high sometimes. Here is one sequence ... -600, -1000, +2000.

    Bob sent me a message, saying that he needs to talk to me on the phone about setting up a withdrawal. We talk on the phone for a while. I always enjoyed our conversations. I got the impression that he was a big man since he said he liked to eat and his heft helped him push through the crowd when he was younger and traded on the floor in the Chicago futures pits.

    Anyway, Bob says he is shutting down for the day. The balance is at $3550 and he wants me to withdraw $1500 as a test. He had never dealt with this casino before. He said he thought about initiating the withdrawal on his end, but.. I cut him off and said I would take care of the withdrawals.

    He also mentioned that he was betting three accounts. His, Dan's and mine. The time he was spending on my account was taking away from Dan's profit. He was letting the casino pay for Dan's home remodel. The profits from Dan's account also contributed to the church's community outreach (Dan was the Pastor). They did food drives and other things for the poor. Bob often helped with this. He was wondering if I would make a donation to the church periodically to make up for the lost profits. He asked for $200. I told Bob that I did not have a problem with the donation. He said he would get me a receipt for tax purposes.

    Later that night I did request the casino withdrawal and let Bob know. The casino said the request would be reviewed during business hours and to allow up to 5 days. Bob asks "They did not want any confirmation?" It bothered me a little that he was asking about that. The casino had requested a code by text to confirm the withdrawal. So I told Bob that 2FA by text was the only thing so far.

    The next day I let Bob know that the casino withdrawal was already processed and they had sent me the money. He was impressed at the speed... it took longer at the site he was using. He said that the casino interface was still acting up. His words... "The is a problem... the table graphics is going crazy again." ... (I now think this was cover for "I was betting big today". One sequence I see -25, -200, -500, +975.)

    Bob said that I might have to make another withdrawal soon, he has the account back to up $3050 already. He said he would send me a request for the $200 donation.

    Later that evening, Bob sends me a message thanking me for the $200 that I sent to him for Dan's church. He said that he was stopping betting for the day. The account balance was back up to $3160 now. He said he could have won another $400 today but it would not look good. He said he would talk to me tomorrow and to have a good night.

    So now results are $3160 at the casino + $1500 withdrawal = $4660. So far so good starting with a $1000 balance.

    More in the next installment.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2023

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