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Craps Of Dice and Balls ...

Discussion in 'Craps Forum' started by Harley, Jun 9, 2015.

  1. fish

    fish Member

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    When you say "we" I must assume you are refering to your high powered unbalanced research team from academia and casinodom. I think I am really begining to see where your coming from.
     
  2. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    yes, for those not familiar - these are just a few of the many craps players that help us collect evidence - we have assembled a Biased Dice Research Team which includes over a dozen dice detectives with professional resumes that include:
    - a double PhD tenured Math professor;
    - a NASA aerospace scientist;
    - a retired plastics engineer;
    - a mechanical engineer;
    - an electrical engineer;
    - 2 finance majors;
    - a CPA;
    - a computer geek;
    - and 4 craps players that live and play in Las Vegas almost every day of the year
     
    Mark V likes this.
  3. appistappis

    appistappis Member

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    another point: you have a perfectly balanced die and on the first roll it is crashed off the glass...you now have an unbalanced die.
     
  4. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    appistappis - very good point !! There are usually only 2 items on the craps table that can effect the dice as you mention - the glass and the money drop (metal ones) ..... some of the Downtown Las Vegas casinos have started putting plexi-glass on their tables in place of the glass to minimize the damage to dice.

    A few casinos offer pool-side tub crap tables and if a toss or 2 bounce off the table and land on the hard surface, they too can develop chips that can effect the outcome. Likewise, this same can happen at Ellis Island - I believe the only casino in Las Vegas area without carpet under the table area.
     
  5. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    Appi, this conversation is interesting, and its the firsttime I have thought about it or suspected foul play.

    From your perspective, and I ask this knowing you know what you talk about....how can you say absolutely not......is it possibly going on and instituted on a level well above the average casino workers pay grade?. Above dealers, boxmen, pit bosses?

    On the other hand, is it also possible that dice are not balanced because they buy cheap dice, or because the companies making dice have bad quality control?

    In poor economies, seeing BJ go more and more to6/5, and slot payout percent decreasing,.....would I be shocked that an edge in dice is being sought by casinos???...NOPE

    BUT all I can do is wonder. I have no evidence
     
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  6. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    It is a completely 'shot in the head' person who thinks that the casinos have not mucked with Craps!

    Of course they did!

    Changing the payouts won't work so what they did was change the dice! Yep, the dice are unbalanced and will roll more sevens or craps than normal, thus increasing the house edge from 4% to 36%!

    I have personally tracked over 1,000 rolls at one particular casino and can absolutely testify that the dice are biased at that particular casino.

    DRD.PNG

    LRD.PNG

    Now, I cannot testify that EVERY CASINO has bad dice, however chances are that the dice are bad to some degree. Perhaps you can tolerate them, perhaps not.

    Its your money after all....
     
    Harley likes this.
  7. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    if there are dice that are weighted to "4" and some dice weighted to "3" so as to get a "7" more easily.

    Is it possible for someone to make a killing witht he hard 8 or hard 6( or any 8 and 6)...if 2 dice of the same bias are selected from the tray.
     
  8. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Those who are skeptical of the claim of bias dice say that players can 'make a killing' with such dice. What they fail to realize is that the house edge created by such dice is too high to beat, and no betting method or system can survive.

    Casinos are comfortable with such dice because the players cannot beat them. If there was a way to beat them, then we have people selling paid seminars on 'how to beat bias dice'. But you can't and just like you cannot beat 6:5 blackjack because of the high house edge. You don't see blackjack seminars teaching you how to beat such a game, rather they say avoid 6:5 blackjack all together.

    The best you can do with such dice is to toss them really hard against the backwall so that the bias is overpowered by the energy of the throw and that will give you a fair toss. Don't set the dice and make sure to throw hard enough so they end up near the stick man.
     
  9. fish

    fish Member

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    Throwing hard? No matter what velocity of toss, right before the dice stop moving won't gravity take over similarly in each case? Throwing hard would just facilitate creating a new dice bias.
     
  10. Mark V

    Mark V Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Fish,
    Wrong. The slow and soft toss will maximize the bias of the dice. You can see this at tables when the dice are the 'Crappy dice' and the shooter is using a V-3 set with a very slow and soft toss and gets nothing but outside numbers.

    The only way to prove this to yourself is this:

    Next time you are at the casino and the dice are landing funny and where none of the usual tosses seem to be working for you - then try the hard toss and see if the dice start to behave more normal.

    Of course you can just ignore this. It is your money after all.
     
  11. fish

    fish Member

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    Indie (i.e., wouldn't play at Indian casinos unless forced to) Hardly, and other long or short bus people, doesn't seem to be supported by Physics...probably just variance...Of course you can just ignore this. It is your money after all, also. Fish has never really played craps before just watch table games and plays on computer games so I never really lost any money.
     
  12. TSC

    TSC Member Lineage to Founders

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    So you don't play craps, but you know of Harley and the Short Bus people?... strange... do i smell an Irish man on board?
     
    fish likes this.
  13. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    fish - just another sock puppet afraid of his shadow so he hides behind a curtain like the Mad Professor ... no one can certify that fish even exists in or out of water, but maybe only on the San Fransico stage ... behind the curtain
     
  14. superrick

    superrick Active Member Founding Member

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    You know I thought that they only had SUCK PUPPETS in San Francisco! The fish must be out of water on this one! Look there is Fish the little one third from the right!

    [​IMG]
     
  15. RENEGADE

    RENEGADE New Member

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    That is just Dumb if the dice are biased to 7s hope the 7 and play the don't. It is impossible to make dice be bad for one thing without making it good for something else
     
  16. RENEGADE

    RENEGADE New Member

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    So bet the horn
     
  17. LarryS

    LarryS Compulsive Liar Compulsive Liar

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    In the long run,every casino knows that a vast majority of the players dont bet the dark side.
    So although their losses might occur with the few that bet "dont"
    the other 90 percent of players would suffer.
    Again....I have no proof. Its just that for online casinos and poker rooms..people would say "they dont need to cheat...they already make millions daily"......but in the end,...there is never enough money.never enough profit....so cheating has occured.

    So is it impossible to think that brick and mortar casinos might find ways to cheat? Not out of the realm of possibility. Never say never
     
  18. Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone

    Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone Well-Known Member Lineage to Founders

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    Complaining that the dice are biased is foolish.

    Exploit the flaw, don't complain about it.
     
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  19. AxelWolf

    AxelWolf Active Member

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    I have been hearing for years how biased the dice are from the usual suspects. They claim they can tell by watching/playing after just a few sessions. If this was the case they should be stupid rich, instead they post about it and tell people where NOT to play(especially if you are drying to influence the dice). THEY ARE FUCKING RETARDED.

    I'm not saying some dice are not biased, but I know dam well they cant tell and its not some big conspiracy to fleece the players.

    If you do find Biased Dice in a casino why the fuck would you spend your time trying to use dice influence when a bias would give you much better results than trying to influence the dice? Or why not try to influence the dice in conjunction with the bias?
     
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  20. RENEGADE

    RENEGADE New Member

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