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Roulette Q: Nathan Detroit Action Numbers

Discussion in 'Roulette Forum' started by Richie, Mar 30, 2023.

  1. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    Hi ND,

    Hope all is well in ND Casinoverse.

    Just a couple of questions if you don't mind please regarding the action number setup's below:

    A:
    0-2-3 (4 units)
    7-8-10-11 (4 units)
    16-21 DS (7 units)
    25-26-28-29 (4 units)
    31-36 DS (7 units)

    B:
    1-6 DS (7 Units)
    10-15 DS (7 units)
    22-27 DS (7 units)
    28-29-31-32 (4 units)

    Regards the JP/ Brett Morton action numbers above, which would you prefer for the Single Zero, A or B?

    Do you only play Single Zero? or do you use the JP numbers (10-15, 28-33, 17-18-20-21, 1-6) on Double Zero also?

    Thanks in advance for your reply
    R
     
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  2. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    The original action numbers by J P are not for the single 0 wheel .


    ND
     
  3. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    P.S. Not using numbers from A or B .
     
  4. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    Thanks for the answers.

    Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post, I have been using "B" (Brett Morton's version) successfully for the last couple of years (mostly B+M) for the single zero wheels here (UK).

    I got "John Patrick's Roulette - A Pro's guide to managing your money and beating the wheel" (1996). I see his numbers are all for double zero, so I have been using a version of Brett Morton's 22 numbers "B" successfully for the last couple of years on the single zero wheels here (UK). I utilise JP's Guarantee and excess, profit and loss, regress and pull, foot pointed at door etc. "A" is not JP's double zero method, I think it may be yours? Don't know, but seems quite well placed on a single zero with a max gap of 3, but larger sectors. It's JP's 2DB's, 2 quads and a bucket, but altered to suit, but with larger gaps.

    If you HAD to play single zero (such is mostly the case over here), would you use A or B, or would you just stick to JP's double zero original action numbers and put up with the extra vig due to the better performance on the double zero wheel? Interested in your opinion, many thanks
    R
     
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  5. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    If faced with a single 0 wheel at a Euro casino I I am selecting 2 of the dozens.
     
  6. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    OK, thank you.
     
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  7. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Hello Richie and ND ...

    I like Brett Morton's action number as they only have a gap of two at most.
    Do you use a smooth progression and stop loss?

    In the past, I try to come up with a march using Brett Morton action numbers.
    If I remember it correctly 3, 3, 3, 2, would allow you to use flat stakes with almost even return.

    In JP's book, he explains in detail various staking plans with regression up and pulls.

    Cheers
     

  8. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    Hi Sputnik,

    Stop loss is 20%, i.e. 2 straight losses in a row.
    No progression, after 2 wins I reduce the bet and let it ride till first loss. Largest run so far in months of live play has been 14 wins in a row, but normally see 2 to 4 WIAR before a loss. I use 7774 and drop to 3332 after 2 WIAR. I use 3332 and drop to 2221 if in a losing streak/trend until the wave begins climbing again. Only if I'm on a long winning trend (multiple sessions), I'll go 7774 x 2, 3332, 2221, 3332 and ride at 3332 until loss.

    When I get to 8 WIAR, I begin to look at the opposite bet (due to Barstow's diminishing probabilities):
    1 unit on 0,
    1 on 7-9 street,
    2 on 16-21 DS,
    1 on 34-36 street
    1 on 30-33 split.
    This bet I do use a progression, but very mild and only for 2 or 3 spins.

    Brett Morton leaves a a gap of 3 groups of 2 with 59% coverage of the wheel, but a profit ratio of 63% (just placing 22 single numbers straight up on the inside gives 59%)

    I have dismissed version "A" in my first post above, due to the unbalanced evens bets within it on single zero. Brett's has almost equal High/Low/Odd/Even/Red/Black ratio.

    I just looked at your thread earlier Ref: Progressions with this, initially your results looked promising, but I think the actual monetary values would be losses in each series due to the fact that each loss amount is higher than a win amount. How did you find this in live demo/dealer testing? Not having a dig at you, appreciate your testing. How would you progress?
    Cheers
    R
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2023
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  9. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Richie that is awesome and I love the fact you ended at two loses.
    And your staking plan and regression are top-notch.

    You teach me and not the other way around :)

    I have been testing a march, shortly, using one loss as a trigger.
    After a fictive win attack for real.

    The LW-Registry is W, LW, LL.
    And you get small, medium and large waves with LWLWWWWLWLWLL

    So still testing to let the bet run until a positive return and then regress and up/pull for more.
    Also considering testing starting a session after each dealer change.

    Run a short session today after reading your post and hit +20 units flat betting and then down to even, using 3332.
    You are a good person who shares real experience, that is great.

    Many Thanks

    Patrik
     
  10. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Just to show one example to the public.

     
  11. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    Thanks for your comments. As for the losses, yes I stop at 2 in a row or 20%. I taught myself how to trade currencies many moons ago (self employed) and the same trading psychology seems to help in table games. I'm always looking at "how much can I lose?", and if the wins happen then great, in for the ride. Rolling stop loss, adjusting Take Profit levels. If I walk into a B+M, place bet and 2 losses in a row, then I'm gone. I see it as the market was not ready for my order. I'll await another day and another entry point.

    Careful if you use online dealers. I used live dealers online during lockdown, never again. Even though they were UK casino based I had multiple problems with "Bets Rejected", "The dealer span the ball incorrectly and the ball did not travel more than 3 times around the wheel. Please wait while we re-spin" (the ball had travelled at least 10 times) " , "Slow connection" (I have superfast internet) and my personal favourite...just kicked out and frozen from account in the middle of a betting series. Unable to log back in...next day call to customer support, a threat of report to gaming commission and the response "Sorry but your password was reset, you can log back in now...".

    As to a new session with a new dealer, YES. I always wait till new dealer starts and watch the first few numbers before beginning. I do not want to have a dealer change just after my first or second bet. Mathematically I know this does not make sense, the probabilities remain the same, but the short term fluctuations in possible dealer signatures are what matter. I've had a situation where a new dealer spins a few numbers, placed my first bet, another new dealer changes before spinning the wheel...I cashed in and left the table.

    I am trying to understand your bet initiation sequence, you say are waiting for a single virtual loss and then a virtual win yes? If so, then you are placing your bet and letting it run until positive but not after 2 losses in a row?

    Cheers
    R
     
  12. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Richie, we have much in common, I am also into sports and trading and think in line as having a market to explore.
    I only use exchanges online and never online casinos, see to many posts about freezing accounts after achieving serious winnings.

    Now I think what is most common using 22 numbers and that might be singles and series of two versus series of three or higher.
    But to achieve that with 22 numbers you need to pick one side to achieve the distribution.

    So W, LW and LL would be L, LL, LLL.

    This means you follow the string of losses rather than both to achieve the march.
    I only test this with smaller samples so I can not say it works, but it sure is an interesting theory.
    If I remember to correctly a even money bet has 0,25% to hit a single or a series of two after 3+.
    And if 3+ chop we don't bet as there is no fictive win.

    The question is that after achieving +1 we can directly continue or wait for the next L (trigger).
    If the corner bet hits (Tie) we repeat the bet during the current session to achieve +1 and regress.
    There are variations on how to tackle the march and I am open to suggestions.

    This is how it looks like:

    Code:
    L
    W 
    L
    W
    L
    L
    W
    W
    W
    L
    L
    L
    
    - - -
    
    W
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    W
    W
    W
    L
    W 
    L
    W 
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    L
    Z 
    W 
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    L
    L 
    L 
    
    - - -
    
    L
    W
    W
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    L
    W 
    L
    W 
    W
    W
    L
    L 
    W
    L
    L 
    L 
    
    - - -
    
    W
    L
    W 
    Z
    W
    L
    W 
    W
    W
    Z
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    Z
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    L
    L 
    W 
    W
    W
    W
    W
    W
    L
    W 
    W
    W
    W
    L
    Z
    L 
    W 
    W
    W
    Z
    L
    W 
    L
    L 
    W 
    L
    L 
    L 
    
    
     
  13. Richie

    Richie Active Member

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    Hi Sputnik,
    I appreciate your tests. However, you will find they fail in the long term. I mean this nicely, because I have been there. You cannot select random to beat random (as you are doing at 1054 to one). The death sequence can appear multiple times in 2000 spins unfortunately.
    Try testing after 2 virtual losses. Double win...WW done for the day...end session. WLW look for 2nd session. LWL look for another session. WW...no third session, bank profit.
    LL...finished, enjoy the comps or go home.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2023
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  14. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Hello Richie, you are probably right, your sentence should make closer to this topic.

    Cheers Patrik
     

  15. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Hello I just want to show you Sputnik's 22 Number Chart - the same spread as Brett Morton, but with a different cover on the table and wheel layout.
    Both have three gaps with two numbers and the other one number gap, so they are identical.

    Kavoras bet is a similar method with 20 numbers, but the spread is chaotic, but not so evenly spread as Brett or Sputnik's numbers.
    The interesting part with Kavoras is that he uses dispersion and regression towards the mean.

    Sputniks 22 nr table png.png Sputniks 22 nr wheel png.png

    And below is Brett Morton's solution ....

    Brett Morton 22 nr png.png
     
  16. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    A well chosen topic Thanks ..
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
  17. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Disclaimer:

    I play roulette and baccarat for entertainment.
    So I don't want to prove anything else than that.

    Sputnik's Action Numbers:

    You probably know Brett Mortons, Action Numbers and heard of Kavoras Bet.
    Kavoras bet is more complex so I will not discuss that system here.

    Brett Morton wanted to develop a slice of the wheel that cover all angles.
    Where there would not be more than a two-number gap between numbers and cover twenty-two of them.

    It's an even-money bet with a hedge bet or a side bet that works as a tie bet.
    When you staking 1 unit on the corner bet and 3 units on each line you get an almost even spread of payouts.

    Both have three gaps with two numbers and the others with one gap.
    See attachment.

    Selection:

    I experiment with math and probability to measure the trials for imbalance.
    Where the three lines, the even money bet, reach a 2.5/3.0 STD (ignoring the corner bet).

    The main idea is to catch a small, medium or large wave of regression towards the mean.
    Now there are different ways to tackle and measure the trails.

    We can use the three-line outcome as one side of the coin and where the other numbers are the other side.
    Here each side has a value of 1.

    We can use series versus singles where both have a 50/50 and a value of 1 each.
    We can use singles versus larger series based on Marigny De Grilleau's playing model with their corresponding values.

    Simulation:

    I have both Excel and software to simulate the 3,0 STD selection to see what happens next after such an imbalance.
    And will post the results in chunks of chosen playing model to see if we can find a distinct march to catch some degree of regression toward the mean.
    Attachments:

    The first image is Spuntik's Action Numbers, wheel layout.
    The second image is Sputnik's Action Numbers, table layout.
    The third image is Brett Morton's Action Number, wheel layout.
    Forth image is Brett Morton's Action Numbers, table layout.

    Cheers Sputniks 22 nr wheel png.png
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Sputnik's Action Numbers

    Should mention that zero does not interrupt the distribution as we have a tie bet, a corner bet,
    working like a hedge bet.
    We can choose to place 1, 2, 2, 2 which would give us plus five units as even money and the corner bet plus two units.
    From this position, we can build a staking plan.
    This means that if we win our lines bet and get a corner (tie) we continue as if nothing happened.
    With Brett Mortons set up we would have been taking a loss or zero would interrupt the distribution.

    Singles versus larger series


    The core of the playing model is to find an imbalance with overrepresented events.
    Singles and series of two.
    And after a strong imbalance, we look at how the underrepresented events come in chunks as small, medium and large chunks of regression towards the mean.

    We can get a smooth ride with regression showing after 3.0 STD and we can get a bumpy ride that we get partly matched with some degree of regression, but the distribution struggle between growing stronger and weaker in dispersion (imbalance).
    If the distribution continues growing stronger, then that is not an issue as we would only attack when there is a clear indication of existing regression toward the mean.

    Playing model

    This is Marigny De Grilleaus playing model for singles versus larger series.

    Singles have a value of 1
    The series of two has a value of 0
    Series of three has the value of 1
    Series of four has the value of 2
    A series of five has the value of 3
    Series of six has a value of 4
    Series of seven has a value of 5

    (and so it continues)

    Charting One Side


    There are two ways to chart in the Casino or when testing.
    You ignore the losses and only use the winning bets side of the coin.

    Example - WLLWLWLWWLWLLLLLLWLLLWWWLWLWWLWLWLWWLWL
    Here we would have many singles and series of two W, W, W, WW, W, W, WWW, W, WW, W, W, WW, W,
    One side only.
    So for example, if we get fourteen singles and two series of three in any combination we have a 3.0 STD.

    And we have a situation and likelihood of observing several series of three choppings or larger series to hit.
    To make it easier to chart I will demonstrate a vertical string of one side of winning bets striking.
    With the example above we get:

    W
    W
    W
    WW
    W
    W
    WWW,
    W
    WW
    W
    W
    WW
    W

    Here we can clearly see nine singles and one series of three.

    Overrepresented versus Underrepresented events

    One detail is that we don't want any underrepresented events being part of the imbalance, the window of events.
    So during simulations, I will separate sequences that have a series of four (value two) among the overrepresented events versus a series of three.
    Because when we look for series of three and larger series we want them all to be underrepresented.
    But maybe we can live with a slight marginal.

    Cheers
     
  19. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Sequence 1 from TRNG (random org) 2023-04-05

    Imbalance 3,15 STD

    R
    R
    RR
    R
    R
    RR
    RR
    R
    RR
    R
    R
    R
    RR
    RR
    RR
    R
    RR
    RR
    RR
    RRR
    R
    RRR
    RR
    R
    R
    R
    R
    RR
    R
    RR

    - - - 15 singles versus 2 series of three
    - - - Regression Unfold

    3 series of three
    2 series of four
    1 series of five
    1 series of seven
    1 series of ten

    - - -

    RRRR
    R
    R
    RR
    RR
    RR
    RR
    RRR
    R
    R
    R
    RRRRRRR
    RR
    RRRRRRRRRR
    R
    RRRR
    RR
    RR
    RRR
    RRRRR
    RRR
    R
    RR
    RR

    Development of a March

    I will go deeper into detail about how to recognize and catch regression toward the mean after posting several sequences.

    Cheers
     
  20. Sputnik

    Sputnik Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Regression towards the mean - Variants 1 & 2

    First, I want to mention that this is not how you bet, this is how you observe regression towards the mean.
    How it behaves and unfolds in real life with random bits from random org.
    We want to see the regression’s behaviour as small, medium and large chunks of correction.

    Variant 1

    We can get a series of three with no larger series and still the STD will drop and get weaker as they strike several times in a row, regression towards the mean.
    Here we are interested in the gaps between the series of three and the opposite to that, the series of two, with no value, to show us the gaps between strikes and no strikes.

    So to visualise this, I will use a plus sign for a series of three ( + ) and a minus sign for a series of two ( - ).
    And with larger series, we will get several plus signs in a row.

    Variant 2

    Here we get chunks of series of three and larger series to strike as part of regression towards the mean.
    A mix of both.

    So this is how I want to get a visual over the regression.
    Where the main idea is to see how +1 value and beyond strike after a strong imbalance.
    After some samples of visualisation, we can start to talk about how to approach and bet on regression using a predefine march to catch those attractive events.

    Sequence 1 from TRNG (random org) 2023-04-05
    Regression Events:

    3 series of three
    2 series of four
    1 series of five
    1 series of seven
    1 series of ten

    Visualisation:

    ++
    -
    -
    -
    -
    +
    +++++
    -
    ++++++++
    ++
    -
    -
    +
    +++
    +
    -
    -

    Will post several samples today and update this topic.

    Cheers
     

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