Blackjack Spreading to 2 hands bringing attention to your play

I heard in something posted a while back that spreading from 1 to 2 hands (just in Vegas where there`s so much heat) can bring a good deal of unwanted attention to your play. I`m planning on playing only shoe games, so there wouldn`t be as much switching back and forth between 1 and 2 hands as if I were playing double deck. But, the less scrutiny from the pit the better. Or, maybe if you do switch to 2 hands it`s just best to wong out of the shoe and leave the casino when the count goes negative enough to warrant going back to 1 hand... Anyway, just wondering if spreading to 2 hands still had somewhat of an attention-bringing quality in Vegas or not... Can it be kind of a tell that you may be a counter? In addition to the fact you`re spreading your bets of course...

 

When I relocated to Las Vegas 8 years ago (wow, has it been that long? ), one of the things I was looking forward to was spreading to multiple hands in positive counts or positive EV situations. Coming from the east coast, Atlantic City and Pa games, this was difficult because of crowded table conditions, so I was really excited about adding this technique to my play in Vegas.

Within a very short time, I discovered spreading to multiple hands does indeed draw extra attention in Vegas. At the double deck games, it is a nightmare. But most of the double deck games are severely 'hawked' and almost anything you do to get more money on the table during positive EV situations is noticed. But I was really surprised at the extra scrutiny and heat that spreading to multiple hands drew at the shoe games.
Pit personnel can be pretty blatant about it. At first when a "pit critter" started flipping through the discard tray immediately after I had spread to multiple hands, I didn't even realize it was a warning shot. It took a few times of this procedure, accompanied by dirty looks and a couple backoffs before it hit me that Vegas was much more sensitive and intolerant of spreading to multiple hands than other jurisdictions.

As I said, it is worse at double deck, but even at shoe games, I just determined that spreading to multiple hands, was just counter productive (pun intended) to my primary goal of longevity in this town. If you are rolling into town on an occasional visit or trip, you may want to experiment, but if you live here or play regularly and your primary goal is to play for a number of years before burning out everywhere, you are better off skipping this one.

If you really want to have more hands in play during plus EV situations, I would consider "reverse hand spreading". Start out a shoe, playing two hands and drop to a single hand if the count goes negative. This draws less attention, but you can't go back and forth during the same shoe. I tried this for a while, but really my basic plan of attack is to "wong out" completely (exit) during those negative EV situation, so the point that I would cut back was actually the same or very close to my exit trigger. Betting zero during a losing situation beat betting less.

 

I want to amend this to say you should only employ this with other players at the table. If you are playing heads-up with the dealer, cutting back to a single hand in negative counts is going to increase the number of rounds you have to get through before the shuffle. When playing heads up you are better off just sticking with two hands and eating cards quicker during negative expectation rounds. But again, the better option is to not be playing during those negative EV counts or at least....the worst of the negative EV counts.

 

Thank you KewlJ, I really appreciate you going into detail on that. The post I was referring to was actually yours from the GC forum about 3 years back. I just didn`t specify that in my post because I didn`t know how often you looked through this forum. I also couldn`t PM you to ask you if you`d mind to expound on it because I haven`t posted on here enough to have that ability. Since staying under the radar as much as possible is a huge priority of mine, I should just stick with playing one hand then. There`s something else I`m really struggling with in my game plan too. It has to do with an act/my physical features though, so I`m afraid if I mention it in a post I`ll be outing myself too much. If you have some spare time to email me I`d love to explain what I`m referring to and get some quick advice. For someone who knows Vegas as well as you do, I know you`d be able to point me to the better strategy. It`s [removed] if you don`t mind.

 

Funny that you mention GC and BJ21. coincidentally, in another thread, I just posted why I no longer participate there. And having been banned at Norm's site (for personal differences) and WoV, because Shackleford chose to allow Norm to extend that ban, THIS site is my current home.

I think I know where you are going with this. Early in my career, back in Atlantic City, I was in my early to mid 20's. But I looked like I was about 15. Even into my early Vegas days, when I was getting into my late 20's, I looked very young. The point is anything specific about one's appearance can make you more memorable and work against you.

This was my thinking when I relocated to Vegas. But I have evolved just slightly. You probably will not be able to play under the radar as much as you think. Even with a bigger rotation like Las Vegas, you will see the same dealers and pit fairly frequently. Eventually it becomes a little less about trying to "trick" them or "fly under the radar" and more about settling into a comfort level or tolerate level/style of play. You want to make it so pit folks don't HAVE to back you off or bar you. Most aren't looking to do anything that creates extra work (like back-off or barring). They just want to get through their day as easy as the next guy.

I do this by (1.) identifying and playing within betting levels that are pretty well tolerated. For the most part this is max bets of mid black. $500 is a key threshold..... And (2) playing short sessions. Short sessions means you are less likely to rack up those big wins that pit folks MUST answer for. Occasionally you will still register a big win (oh damn..), but for the most part you are exchanging bigger wins, for more frequent smaller wins. . Even when pit people sort of get to know you, if you are playing short sessions, they know you will be in and out without them HAVING to do anything. They can just look the other way and you will be gone. I call this the "path of least resistance".

These two small things can really improve longevity.

 

I appreciate you elaborating on all that KJ. Despite you not even knowing exactly what I`m thinking about, you went in the right direction and it still helped a lot. Especially with what you were referring to about anything specific in one`s appearance being memorable in any way. I`ve thought about that aspect in regards to one of the things I`ve been on the fence about in terms of what I`m trying to portray image-wise to the pit. So you saying that drives the point home of just how important it is to keep my appearance simple, try to blend in, and be easily forgettable. Maybe the management/moderator will change their mind and let my email address come through. If not, it`s all good I can always ask your opinion on what I was going to ask later on when I get the PM feature unlocked. I completely understand why they do this and respect it, however the only thing I ask if they see this is to reconsider making the minimum amount of posts to unlock that lower. 300 is a lot, and even through regular participation on the site I would think that`ll take a long time. I saw the post you were referring to. I agree that the archives are very valuable on BJ21. I`ve scoured them a lot in addition to what I`ve found on this site since I`ve become a member. A lot of questions I had were answered by searching it, and I found a lot of other helpful information including your posts on there. I mention this because, especially when it comes to card counting, books will only take you so far. By "so far", I mean not far enough haha. So that`s why these forums are so great. Thanks again.