Craps The Bottom Line

Some on this forum know me. Others know of me. Most know of my successes and failures at the tables. I am not one to toot my own horn and this is not what this thread is about. I just want to give my honest opinion and feedback in hopes it will help new comers to the game and maybe some existing veterans.

1- Dice Control. I don't believe in dice control. There is no such thing. Period. Anybody tells you they can control the dice and can teach you is a liar. Enough said.

2- Dice Influence. I do believe with a good amount of practice a few number of people can sometimes influence the dice. They can do that by a certain set they use, their throw, etc... This doesn't work every time and all the time. The human body with enough training can develop muscle memory. If you look at a baseball pitcher, sometimes they can be so perfect they pitch a perfect game or a shut out. It's all about practice but NOT EVERYONE can do this. Each person needs to look in the mirror and be honest to themselves.

3- On Axis Toss. Yes this can be achieved per my comments in #2. Some on this forum whom has seen me play can tell you I have a good on Axis shot.

4- Off Axis Toss. Yes this can be achieved per my comments in #2. On certain tables in certain casinos this is ALL I use with good success.

5- DI classes. This is a touchy subject. I have taken several of these and my opinion is that the reason most students fail and go on a guilt and finger pointing spree is because they don't give themselves time to practice and find out how good they can get. Many of times I have seen them take a class for the first time and then want to be the first to try it out in real live sessions with real money. The classes are designed to teach you proper general technique on dice influencing, general betting strategies and gives others a chance to look at your toss and give opinions. It is up to the person who took the class to practice and develop. Some may never get there, others may get half way there. Not everyone on this forum is a star athletic player however many of us played sports growing up and learned the basic points of the game. The same apply.

6- Biased Dice. Some establishments purchase cheaply made dice in order to save money. In some cases you will get some bias in the dice. Sometimes it's no where enough to affect anything you are trying to establish. Other times it could cause a huge bias. I don't think the major casinos in Vegas purposely warp their dice in order to cheat the customers for many reasons. The fine alone could be huge and the house always wins. Anything they lose on the craps tables they make it back from the suckers on the slot machines. HOWEVER some Indian establishments out in the middle of no-where may do that simply because there is no one to answer to. My advice on the matter simply is to walk away if you think there is something fishy.

7- Bickering and Arguing. Two camps arguing and bickering and calling each other names because they don't agree on something DOES NOT help this forum or any forum. It doesn't help a newbie searching for answers on how to play the game and it WILL not help convince someone from one camp to join the other. Enough with the name calling and arguments. I don't have to name people. You know who you are. Each have stated your point and where you stand. It's up to the readers to decide based on what has been said. If I was the admin, I would put ALL of you in time out. Not for trying to state your points but for going about it the wrong way.

8- Name smearing. I am tired of some on this forum always dragging someone's name or business in the dirt. To me if you do that you are a coward hiding behind the keyboard. Who cares if HEAVY is teaching a class about DI. Who cares if Harley is doing a seminar on Dice Bias. To me it gets to be personal when you start affecting ones business and income. I am disappointed the admin on this forum has allowed this particular thing to go as long as it has. Frank S. has a new book out and people start calling him a liar and a fraud. MP puts out a new betting strategy and folks call him a fiction writer. Harley puts a new video on dice bias and people call him all kinds of names. This is a free country the last time I checked and freedom of speech is something many gave their own lives for. If you don't like what was posted or said then state so in a good way and move on.

THE BOTTOM LINE: We are here to make money and take money from the casinos. Not to bicker argue and fight over petty things. The sad part is that some on this forum will read this and take certain things out of context and attack me for whatever reason. If that's the case I don't care. I have said my peace. My hope is that a newbie to the forum will take this and make his / her own personal choice.

Good luck at the tables

 

I see no problem calling a liar and a fraud, a liar and a fraud. Then, alledgedly, someone took him for $xxxxx. That's called sowing and reaping.

 

A newbie on this forum has every right to be warned about hucksters that inhabit other forum's

 

Gargoil -

A " Most Excellent " post -

Honest and succinct !

Especially in light of past experiences you encountered on these pages !

I CONCUR - there is NOTHING to be gained by continuing in the past manners as you so eloquently targeted -

It is either time to move " Forward " - OR - " Move Away " !

$...eE..$

 

Can I get in one more punch? You need to correct your line about everyone here is here to make money and take money from the casinos. There are some here to make and take money from the greedy, gullible citizens of these forum's. They (You know who THEY are) should be treated with utter disdain. I do my best.

 

Very well said, all of it, Gargoli... helping all of us players to evolve in all aspects of the game...

 

Back in the 80's real estate seminars were all over the place, you couldn't turn your TV on without seeing how to buy real estate with nothing down. Now these people were called frauds, liars , charlatans, but with a few exception what they were selling was legal, and actually worked when applied correctly. Some of these people went to jail because of IRS problems, some ended up having their corporation filed for bankruptcy. With that said I am not familiar with anyone in the craps community who is knowling selling a system/method with the expressed intention to defraud the buyer. Are their products hyped up? Sure they do, but do they make fraudulent claims in their marketing of the product? I don't know any, but if they are out there and the fraud can be clearly illustrated then that information should be shared.

 

There have been plenty of fraudulant claims. Plenty. It starts with "You can do this". It continues with "Practice till you puke" Then there are charts which prove the superiority of the V3 set and the demise of the hardway set (As you practice till you puke) There are lot's of tidbits here and there: Three finger grip rules! Low slow and easy (Which defies the law of gravity)! The Parr toss. The GTC toss. The pendulum toss. The underhand toss. The Yuri toss. Whatever Harley invented toss. The knuckleball toss. Little Joe toss. And now there aint no such thing as on axis. There is one thing not mentioned in the previous. Can you guess what it is? Same reason Michael Jordan couldn't make it in baseball. Greatest player in probasketball, but he couldn't hit a curve.

 

There have been plenty of fraudulant claims. Plenty. It starts with "You can do this". It continues with "Practice till you puke" Then there are charts which prove the superiority of the V3 set and the demise of the hardway set (As you practice till you puke) There are lot's of tidbits here and there: Three finger grip rules! Low slow and easy (Which defies the law of gravity)! The Parr toss. The GTC toss. The pendulum toss. The underhand toss. The Yuri toss. Whatever Harley invented toss. The knuckleball toss. Little Joe toss. And now there aint no such thing as on axis.
There is one thing not mentioned in the previous. Can you guess what it is? Same reason Michael Jordan couldn't make it in baseball. Greatest player in probasketball, but he couldn't hit a curve. So when SuperRick shows you (or gives links) to 1001 different videos of why it can't be done, you can bet that the vast majority show two dice that are not acting as one. The physics behind every toss do not change. You WILL have to make two dice act as one. So how many really can? There is your fraud.

 

DeMango, All what you said is true, but it doesn't rise to the level of fraud. You may disagree with the way the information was presented, but to prove it was done in a fraudulent manner is a rather high hurdle to get over. What may be a fraud is when someone pitches a system that they will never use, or where it can be document they intentionally set out to defraud the end user. SR isn't selling anything he is just providing videos to support his position. Everything is a learning tool, finding what works for you may not work at all for me. table conditions coupled with how the dice react to one's toss and making the necessary corrections is a major component of the game, but to make those adjustments you need a base of knowledge and experience to resort to. Knowledge cost money. I always looked at craps the same way I do golf, none of the courses are the same, none of the tables are the same, and you have to know what club works best and what toss works best for the current conditions. Eventually the ball will go in the hole, my take me 10 strokes or more. Well that is how I see it, plus no one is holding a gun to my head to buy books, go to seminars, or go to a casino.

 

There have been certain authors/teachers, that with a straight face will tell you that anyone can do it. That is simply fraud. By the student results, overall, we also see putrid results. Handles that posted till we got sick of them have disappeared. So if you and I, take in everything, seperate the wheat from the chaff, take something you and I can build on, I still call it fraud, because 99% do not. You can tell the GTC alumni at the tables. Bet the don'ts. I have a close friend in MS that tells me the same thing when another school is in session. Bottom line is, as always, buyer beware!

 

Demango, YOU would have been one hell of a Drill Sargent!! LOL. However, I do agree with your summation. Dice Influencing is EXTREMELY hard to get good at, & to top it off..... The "Perfect" Mid-Air tosses CAN turn to "Shit" once they hit the Table. Getting the dice to "Fly" Together is Just the First Step. Then you have to bet to your strength. Next you must possess enough Discipline to be Selective about "Others" that you bet on. The list goes on & on. I agree with you Demango. Practicing till you Puke will not make you a Successful DI. The Sad truth is that MOST will NOT succeed with Dice Influencing. It takes an EXTREME amount of Dexterity to keep Both dice Moving as ONE Unit Consistently enough to make a profit.

 

BOTTOM LINE QUESTION IS:

Do you have the advantage?

Yes or No.

Seriously, there are legit ways to make $500 a day just with $5 bets in most casinos in Las Vegas, and this is not requiring any physical skill or heat attracting method like card counting. Does your DI skills perform to this level? Are you making $500 a day or on each casino visit?

If you are making $500 or more every casino visit with DI, then Bravo to you! If not, or worse you are going negative every casino visit, then it is time to have that little chat with yourself.


Of course, the dream is to make the casino your personal ATM machine. Gargoil is right, "THE BOTTOM LINE: We are here to make money and take money from the casinos". I understand there are some huskers who will peddle some 'System" or 'one simple little trick' as to how you can achieve your dream, but really? If it was that easy, then everyone would do it! If you teach me how to get rich at the casinos, then why would I not just get rich teaching others? Opps, cause the 'thingy' being taught actually DOES NOT WORK.

You know the old saying: If it's too good to be true, then it probably is.


Here is what I do:
- Stick with the lowest house edge bets! Anything over 2% house edge is a no-bet.
- Go for the win, not the killing.
- betting a lot to win a little works far better than betting little to win a lot.
- Casinos work on Math, not luck! You must know odds and how they work. ie: How many hands of blackjack can a player lose before it is mathematically impossible to lose any further?
- Have a win and loss limit. Know when to stop gambling and go home or celebrate your victory with your friends.
- And, ...
CASINOS WILL CHEAT IF THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH IT! So, use your best judgement about where you are playing at!

 

Scobe once lost 21 Blackjack hands in a row

 

Gargoil,...if you think that posting the real name of a gambler that has no other source of income on a board is the right thing to do I got news for you buddy, talk about a low blow and very underhanded .

The photo you were talking about of someone's underage daughter just happened to come from her Facebook page. I was told that she works at a place where they serve alcohol as a server so how can she be underage? Now I do not have a Facebook account and I'm getting this through hearsay .

You guys are
the ones that started this whole mess by posting Harley real name. Did you really think that he would just sit back and let anybody post nothing but lies about him?

Anytime we post something that has to do with Craps we are attacked with nothing but lies. The sock puppets come out then attack us. If you or anybody else don't like the fact that I posted all of them slow motion videos that shows your Dice cannot stay on axis I don't know what to tell you.

The one thing I can tell you though is you have no rights to make up lies about me and use your sock puppets like AK 47 to attack Harley or anybody else that post on this board or any other board. Just because somebody does not have an answer or a comeback to something that we post does not give you the right to attack us personally.

I personally do not teach Craps for a profit but will help people out to understand the game and what they're up against. Their dice cannot stay on axis once they hit the table. Now if you go over to the board that I help run you will see under the links that there is still a link to Heavy's board, but I will bet that there is none to the board that I help run on his board!

I don't drink at night then go on the boards talking shit about anybody that I do not agree with like some members of a few boards. If you need alcohol to do you're talking I feel for you but can't do anything for you.

This was posted on the other board with the same thread.

 

Let me clarify one point here, I did go back and reread Gargoil post and my name was not mentioned by him. Most of the name calling is done by one other and the sock puppets.

 

LOL, that is mathematically impossible! Now I would say that Scobe was cheated, playing with a hacked shoe! Losing 6 or 7 hands in a row can happen, but 8? That is extremely rare. If you lose more than that, not only just leave the table but leave that casino and call the gambling commission (if there is one).

 

As I told gargoil in a Recent PM..... I have Absolutely NO BEEF with him. Personally, I like the Guy & I can recall a time when we were BOTH "Wet Behind the Ears" trying to learn about dice influencing. Unfortunately, gargoil's Association with ME caused Great concern from the Axis Power Forum. How do I know? Well, Because I've been "Banned" from the sight, Once again!!! I guess old "Shitter" is going through Menopause Again!!! LOL Funny thing is that I've always heard that Heavy is a Good Tosser, along with pappy, Howard, gargoil, & "Little Joe Green. Superrick , Harley, & others come to the Forefront!!! Now, when you get on good rolls & your toss is Flawless, It spreads Pretty quickly in the Dicing community. Also snakeEyes, & Linda Deserve a Special Mention for their shooting Prowess. Why is it that I've NEVER, EVER, heard ANYONE Praise old Shitter's Toss? Now, (Name Omitted) said that Shitter's Toss was "So So". What the hell does that mean? it simply Means that his toss is "For Shit", but out of Respect for Their friendship.... You won't put him on Blast!!! Well, I WILL!!!! After 15 friggin Years of DI'ng....... Irishshitter, it's time to find another craft. That's right, I'm calling you out, & if you have the bankroll, I'd be DELIGHTED to meet YOU at a casino of YOUR choosing(I wouldn't give a shit if we tossed on a Dining room table) for a little "Toss Off". Let's "Freeze Up" $5,000 & see who tosses the best. It SHOULD be No problem for you, Being that you have ROUGHLY 10 Yrs Experience over Me!!!! Okay, "Sock puppets'.... Run & tell Old Shitter "THAT". Now, if Old Shitter doesn't like what I am saying.... tell him to get his COWARDLY Ass, & His Fu***Ked Up Toss to the Table!!! I'll be Patiently waiting for His Cowardly response.

 

Rick -

Your antics are - quite honestly - starting to become stale -

You are espousing the same nonsense on numerous boards -

Yet - quite adept at evading the obvious questions -

WHO is FACTUAL and WHO is the LIAR !

I responded to your false allegations on another forum -

So I will provide the link to THAT site so I will not be redundant here -

THIS is the link to put ALL YOUR BS to rest : http://www.crapsforum.com/threads/the-adjustment-factor.9024/page-5#post-62284

YOU really NEED to stand back and take a HARD look at your position in this entire scenario !

YOU will be a ' better person ' for it - when you come to the realization that Harley is NOT the person you THOUGHT he is / was !

$...eE..$