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Craps The " EXPOSE' " on Little Joe / Dr. Z / AND ALL Off Axis Tosses !

Discussion in 'Craps Forum' started by $nakeEye$, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. grasshopper

    grasshopper New Member

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    Again, a big hat tip to DeMango for steering me to this site where there is a heated discussion going on about the DI topic, seminars,
    and the lot. It has answered some of my questions I posed earlier.

    I don't wish to be harsh, (I'm only on page 11 of 58) but maybe this discussion be summed up by the following two statements:

    "Well entrenched beliefs are not altered by the facts."

    "Those who can do, those who can't either teach or write."

    In any event people over there have posed the same questions I was wondering about in a previous post to this thread.

    Being passionate about craps, I love the back and forth. Back in the day, one of my mentors stated that the most important question you can ask a stockbroker is: "How much money did you make trading in the stock market last year"?

    As much as I would really LOVE to attend the seminar in July, for now I'll opt for taking the bus to Lake Charles since I haven't won that much money. I KNOW it would be a lot of fun rubbing elbows with the guys who play this game everyday. I told the wife that, God forbid, if anything
    happens to her, I'm moving to Vegas!
     
  2. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    The reason why, Mr Pooper, is that any gambler who has any influence at all, looses that edge with stupid betting. So even though you are wrong, you will always be right.

    So 58 pages of poop, eh? Somebody post a link and I may revisit to enjoy the feces!
     
  3. grasshopper

    grasshopper New Member

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    Funny! Some of the posts I must say are quite entertaining; others downright hilarious. Like Rick says, DI is only one leg to the total package of becoming an AP. To wit: patience, discipline, blah, blah.......On reflection though I do think these guys are offering a lot of information, combined with tons of experience at the tables. So, If one is going to garner knowledge, I think they are probably doing a good job with the seminar idea. I'm tempted and would love to attend. Kinda like a fantasy vacation. Oh, SR says he can make $50/hr at the tables. Without knowing anything about him or his style of play, my guess is that he has some 'hit and run' technique unless he is shooting, or playing w/guys he knows that have a good shot.
     
  4. mightymike

    mightymike Member Founding Member

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    why do people make bold claims and then not follow through? do they not realize how much credibility they lose? anyone can claim to have a big dick, but if you're going to shout it out, then get ready to whip it out and plop it on the table or else we're all going to think you're hiding a tiny little pecker.
     
  5. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    I agree mightymike, I can't get a reply from Pooper (Mark) or $nakeEye$. Both topics sound interesting but no follow through.
     
  6. whodat

    whodat Member

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    I have been monitoring this topic as well. So far it's been disappointing.
     
  7. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    I have said this before - numerous times - and yet, I will say it again !

    The SOLE difference between the numerous videos depicting the " ON-AXIS toss vs. the OFF-AXIS toss " are as follows :

    1: ON-AXIS requires a dice set to put the 7's at the ' end of the spectrum ' - i.e. - a " Double Pitch Away " -
    2. GRIP and toss the dice in a " CONTROLLED " manner which will endeavor to keep the dice " On-Axis " -
    3. TOSS the dice in a SLOW, and EASY manner to cause minimal disruption -
    4. STRIKE the back wall at the lower lip to avoid the chaos that the pyramids are designed to instill on the dice when they are struck.

    Regards OFF-AXIS tossing -

    1. Perform the EXACT OPPOSITE of ALL of the ABOVE !

    For the record -

    I am ONLY responding to this thread due to the fact Dicenator made a post ! -

    Dicenator published a most informative treatise regards the Under Hand Toss Techniques -

    Dicenator did NOT produce a video of his techniques ! -

    Above and beyond the " For the Record " -

    IF ANY one of you so called intellectual craps players can NOT comprehend EXACTLY WHAT the difference is between ON-AXIS and OFF-AXIS dice tossing -

    YOU should relegate YOUR casino gambling activities to " BINGO " -

    Get a bell that YOU can ring when the caller calls " Under O - 69 " -

    And be content to play with the little grey haired old ladies !

    IF and WHEN I decide to produce a video depicting the above -

    YOU will be the SECOND to know !

    I will provide a HINT as to the dice sets used for ON- AXIS and OFF-AXIS tossing -

    ON-AXIS dice sets are the 7 AVOIDANCE dice sets -

    Whereas the OFF-AXIS utilizes the 7 PRODUCING dice sets !

    IF ANY ONE on this forum requires pictures to visualize the above -

    Revert to the " BINGO " advice !

    $...eE..$
     
  8. grasshopper

    grasshopper New Member

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    SnakeEyes, thank you for the informative post, and clarifying the distinctions between 'on' and 'off' axis although the
    theory does look counter intuitive on it's face.

    Scenerio l:

    After scouting or charting the table, the dice look unbiased so the shooter's strategy is to play from the do/positive/take odds/place side.
    But, the table is bouncy with underneath layers of some new type of felt.

    Shooter Strategy: From SL1 or SR1, set the dice for an all 7's set and throw close to the back wall at the opposite corner of the table,
    hoping they will go off axis. (Use the hardways set as an alternative to other chances for an off axis landing.)

    Scenerio 2: (only for those who live in Vegas?)

    Same as above but on a neutral table. Use a 7-avoidance set (3-V or 2V) and execute the GTC/Parr toss towards the flat portion of the back wall.

    Scenerio 3:

    Same as above but BIASED dice where they are weighted to produce a lot of PSO. Bet the don't/negative/lay odd/lay bets.
    Set for the All 7's set hoping for a PSO using an on axis toss. From SL1 or SR1 execute the GTC/Parr toss to the flat portion of the back wall.

    I hope I have not misrepresented your ideas.

    Thank you for your thoughts and comments on the above.
     
  9. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    grasshopper - oldgrasshopper - whomever -

    WHAT you missed is simply the fact that what OTHER people do or have done or will do -

    Has absolutely NO effect on what " I or You " can and will do !

    YOU are equating " Random Rollers " as having the same results of a practiced individual -

    You are, in essence, equating " Apples to Oranges " -

    There is NO equality between the two - aside from the elementary fact BOTH are round !

    You can take your charting sheets and deposit them into the nearest garbage receptacle you can locate -

    Because the information that you wasted your valuable time recording is HISTORY !

    And History is NOT a predictor of the FUTURE !

    Regardless, what De Mango thinks and says !

    $...eE..$
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  10. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Snake: Thank you for your theory of charting. I accept your principles except of course for me. When I get done at the end of my day, I will input charts of my rolls into BoneTracker to see what is happening to the dice, per table, per position and per grip. Next time on a particular battlefield, if they haven't changed the felt, one can rest assured similar results will happen, per table, per position and per grip.
    Hard work is the price we must pay for success. I think you can accomplish anything if you're willing to pay the price." - Vince Lombardi
     
  11. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    DeMango -

    I am quite familiar with the BoneTracker program as I also use it -

    Primarily for " at home " practice on my 12' table.

    As ONE IMPORTANT requirement of effectively using BoneTracker is the necessity to track and record EACH INDIVIDUAL die - I say again - tracking casino rolls - because of THIS requirement - is a waste of time !

    EVEN if you were to record each individual die's result as opposed to recording the combined total of the dice -

    It would be extremely difficult - in not impossible - to distinguish the left die from the right die at the casino as both dice are the same color and do not always land in a controlled manner .

    Furthermore, in an effort to help the player using the BoneTracker software - different colored dice are recommended in order to facilitate distinguishing the left die from the right die.

    By inputting dice totals OR the inability to differentiate the left die from the right - one can NOT benefit from the sophisticated information that the program has to offer !

    Sorry, but that is my story and I am sticking with it !

    $...eE..$
     
  12. DeMango

    DeMango Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Maybe you can't. Here is the trick: Follow one die. It works 99%. Most results, it can be extrapolated what happened anyway, be it PFH, DP or ODOA.
     
  13. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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  14. Elijah Marks

    Elijah Marks Member Founding Member

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    dice control LOL!
     
  15. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    Grasshopper ... I have taken 2 separate offaxis classes in person and 1 offaxis video course and I can verify that what SnakeEyes posted above is 95% WRONG

    No one can control dice, but if any toss comes closest to sniping numbers more effectively, it is the Offaxis throw!!!!
     
  16. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    I concur regards statement #1 - with BOTH techniques we are attempting to Influence the Outcome of the toss -

    Nothing MORE - Nothing LESS -

    Regards statement # 2 - The " Off-Axis " throw is NOTHING short of Random Rolling - with ONE exception -

    Which IS - setting an ALL SEVEN dice set - and throwing HARD into the TABLE TURN or ELSEWHERE with the PRIMARY OBJECTIVE to knock the ALL SEVEN dice set OFF-AXIS -

    Thereby - hopefully - end up with an UNKNOWN RESULT - which again - HOPEFULLY - is NOT a SEVEN !

    YOUR hypothesis / theory that the Off-Axis throw is MORE EFFECTIVE at sniping numbers is insane -

    ONE has NO influence on the outcome of the toss using this technique -

    ONE is solely looking for a possible " 7 Avoidance " and then " Wishing and Hoping " that numbers that you bet - will produce !


    AND - aside from YOUR baseless statement - WHAT VERIFICATION / PROOF can YOU contribute to back up YOUR BASELESS CLAIM ?


    $...eE..$
     
  17. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    Is there ANY truth to the Known Fact that YOU, MarkV and KogaNinja are partners in this bogus business relationship ?

    Are YOU people licensed in the State of Nevada do do BUSINESS ?

    Perhaps THAT would be something that YOUR BEST Buddy Rick would be interested to pursue !

    $...eE..$
     
  18. Harley

    Harley Active Member Lineage to Founders

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    SnakeEyes ... as I stated, I have taken 2 separate offaxis classes in person and 1 offaxis video course and I can verify that what you posted above is 95% WRONG .... what is the basis for your claims????

    I am bound by a nondisclosure agreement from Little Joe group so I cannot give you any free information or post any details here, but I can tell you that you are very misleading in your post with wrong statements ..... so why don't you pay for the right information

    Furthermore, you can tell your partner in crime that I am not in business with KogaNinja nor MarkV ... so it's not a "fact" as you incorrectly posted again.
     
  19. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    Well, I am MOST certain that IF anyone investigates " Shinobi MultiMedia, LLC " one will see quite readily as to WHO is / are the registered officers !

    And, AGAIN, YOU are RIGHT, -

    I did NOT make " Detective " ! LOL !

    I ONLY " supervised " them !

    And I am MOST certain thru THEM - YOUR clandestine operation will be exposed !

    Names, addresses, etc. !

    $...eE..$
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017
  20. $nakeEye$

    $nakeEye$ Active Member Founding Member

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    You claim to have taken 2 separate courses and 1 video class - and YOU can NOT disclose information because YOU state of a NDA -

    YET - it is YOU - who attempts to elicit information from ME -

    I would NOT pay you ONE PENNY for your " INFORMATION " -

    Are YOU trying to recoup the $20+ that you paid to your father on the walkway at Fremont Street to hold your sign regards Irish ?

    I'll post the pic of THAT later !

    SOME people - NEVER change !

    And YOU resemble THAT remark !

    $...eE..$
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2017

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