 # Roulette UNIQUE NUMBER ODDS

Discussion in 'Roulette Forum' started by petersone, Jan 1, 2018.

1. ### petersoneNew Member

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Hi
I would like to know the following.
What are the odds of 10 spins 10 unique numbers
What are the odds of 11 spins 11 unique numbers
And so on to say 20 spins 20 unique numbers.
I know on 37 spins around 24 unique numbers, but not the spins in-between.
Thanks.
peter

2. ### mr jWell-Known Member

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I at least know why you are asking. Forget that idea.

Ken

3. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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Peterson,

Here's the problem with that line of thinking. The bet payoff will always be short of the true probability of winning. Meaning...the house edge is still there. The reason is that you can't side step or step outside of probability by watching on the sidelines. Furthermore, why should the odds change if the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next?

However, you can exploit inefficiencies related to the wheel, like if the wheel is biased you could bet the numbers that hit the most because of the physical and real defects. This is how some people have made a great deal of money at roulette. They stopped playing the random game and instead exploit the gaming device.

-Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone

Last edited: Jan 1, 2018
4. ### petersoneNew Member

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Hi
So it seems the thinking is
10 spins 10 unique numbers is same chance as
37 spins 37 unique numbers, though I never heard of it.
peter

5. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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The probability of 37 consecutive spins is not static but dynamic, which means that after each spin the total of unique grows, thus the probability for repeats increases accordingly.
Consider the uniques VS repeats as the artesian well, while the total remains the same the distribution differs, the more you have from 1 the less you have from the other and these kind of imbalances are always present, the only thing which differs is the degree of deviation from a theoretical mean.
If probability was static we would witness 1 repeat per 3 spins, of course it's far from true, by betting more numbers or waiting before you bet you won't gain the long term advantage.

6. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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At each spin of the wheel the odds remain the same, regardless of what has hit on past spins. The reason is that the same number of pockets remain on the wheel from one spin to the next.

7. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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Not all numbers have equal appearance during any given period, that's universal and it's cause is not physical defects, it's about how random behaves on roulette.
We have never witnessed 37 different numbers in 37 consecutive spins since the foundation of roulette game and nobody around the globe will ever will.
So if within 37 spins there's not equal presentation of those numbers then why to be within 370, or 3700, or 37000, or even 370000?
Your 1/37 math theory suck big time!
Random=Deviations, therefore there are no physical flaws on roulettes, but only flaws in your generic and inaccurate theory. 8. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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Another example to show how useless those mainstream gambling math theories are is that first they claim that all EC's (red,black,odd,even,high,low) have equal odds and then the very same math "gurus" claim that this sequence: R R R R R R R R R R R has equal probability with this: R R B R B B B R B R.
The first statement contradicts the second and it's very obvious, thus there is a serious flaw in your perception, I suggest you to reconsider from scratch all those mainstream and generic probability theories because they have no value in action but only on papers.

9. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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Flaws in theory? The probability of winning is what it is. Basic probability isn't flawed, it's only your lack of comprehension of it.
The probability of winning on a number is 1/38 on a double zero wheel, and 1/37 on a single zero wheel.

Why on earth do you believe that a probability of 1/37 means that you will see 37 unique numbers in 37 spins??? The reason you will rarely see 37 different numbers in 37 spins is because there are a gazillion more ways for it not to hit 37 unique numbers in 37 spins than there are for it to hit that many unique numbers.

Actually R R R R R R R R is quite a bit more likely to hit because it's only a run of eight in a row. (18/38^8) However R R B R B B B R B R is a unique run of 10 in a row. (18/38^10). So the average player is far more likely to see R R R R R R R R. It's always a good idea for newer players like yourself to spend some time reading the wizardofodds.com section on roulette.

Why is it the less someone knows about math/basic probability the more certain they are that all the experts and mathematicians are wrong?

Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
10. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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It appears that the length of the run has changed in your example. In this example the run R R B R B B B R B R is only 10 unique spins in length. So it's more likely to hit than R R R R R R R R R R R because it's 11 unique spins in a row.

However, RRRRRRRRRR is just as likely as RBRBRRBRBR.

Understand?

Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
11. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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So if within 37 spins there's not equal presentation of those numbers then why to be within 370, or 3700, or 37000, or even 370000?
Nothing and never is equal, the 1/37 and 1/38 is quite misleading.
Nothing is static but dead, everything moves, alters, evolves as time goes by, this is universal and roulette odds/results are not the exception.

Please re-read carefuly, this time you might count correctly and find that both of the sequences are 10 results length.
Another example to show how useless those mainstream gambling math theories are is that first they claim that all EC's (red,black,odd,even,high,low) have equal odds and then the very same math "gurus" claim that this sequence: R R R R R R R R R R R has equal probability with this: R R B R B B B R B R.

Obviously 1 of those statements has to be false, if still you don't get it then I'm sorry but I cannot make it more simple for you to understand.

You have no idea to whom you are talking to!
I make my living out of gambling, I've invented what you call the Holy Grail of gambling.
While you and the so called experts are expecting someone else to hire and pay them, I'm living life in my own terms without the need of salaries and employments.
I'm just stating the obvious if it's not for you then that's your problem not mine.

Come back to speak to me if/when you would have a success of your own instead of pointing "the history of roulette", "the math", "the physics", "the wizard of Vegas"...etc
Dr No-one Parrot has to enrich his repetitive motive because we heard before but yet here we are, personally I don't give a shit, the only reality which matters for me is chips pouring within my pockets, profit gaining in my account, your pointless blah-blah is as good as junk!

12. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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Again, there are a gazillion more ways to NOT see 37 unique numbers equally represent in 37 spins than are to see all 37 numbers equally represented. The same is true for 370, and 37000000000000.

Actually your original post showed one unique pattern that was 10 in length, and the other was 11 in length. Then after cutting and pasting the thread I somehow shortened one further. Regardless, if both unique patters were ten in length, then they both would have the exact same probability of hitting.

No, all ECs have the same probability of hitting at each spin. All you have to do is look down at the wheel and count the number of possible ways that each of them can hit and you'll find that each has 18 numbers. Therefore each has an 18/37 chance of hitting on a single zero wheel. And if you think that they change based on what has hit on the prior spins, then look back down and count them again before the next spin.  If you disagree then perhaps you can demonstrate the math that proves all of the mathematicians and history wrong? NO, you're just a system seller/charlatan.
It's possible that you've squeezed out a meager existence by selling systems/scamming, but there's no chance in hell that you're a professional gambler, only a gypsy.

Again, the wizardofodds.com is a great way to learn about the basics and math to the game. You should visit the site before spinning your next yarn.

Best of luck and happy learning,

Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone.

Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
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13. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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This sequence: R R R R R R R R R R has equal probability with this: R R B R B B B R B R

Red = 0.5 & Black= 0.5 are equally probable, this far we agree.

1st sequence: 10 x 0.5 = 5 for Red & 0 for Black
2nd sequence: 5 x 0.5 = 2.5 for Red & 5 x 0.5 = 2.5 for Black

Why is the same? It's not!

Therefore sequences which contain equal amount of both sides are more likely than any other unequal sequence (specific), BUT since sequences including unbalanced sides have much more ways to happen are more probable as a total.

A simple example}

There are 6 ways to have 2 Reds and 2 Blacks in 4 spins:
R R B B
B R R B
B B R R
R B B R
R B R B
B R B R

There is only 1 way for 4 Reds in 4 spins:
R R R R
There is only 1 way for 4 Blacks in 4 spins:
B B B B
There are 4 ways to have 3 Reds and 1 Black in 4 spins:
R R R B
B R R R
R B R R
R R B R
There are 4 ways to have 3 Blacks and 1 Red in 4 spins:
R B B B
B R B B
B B R B
B B B R

Unequal sequences: 1 + 1 + 4 + 4 = 10 ways VS 6 ways for equal sequences.
No matter which length a sequence has, their probability IS NOT EQUAL!

You brought me back to elementary maths in order to make you understand, you should be grateful.

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14. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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Blue Angel,

You've managed to pervert basic probability.

Assuming no zero, which it appears you're attempting to do, and I'm being kind when I say, "attempting."

The first sequence has a .5^10th of happening. The probability of the spin being specifically R is .5, the probability of the spin being specifically B is .5.
the unique sequence R R R R R R R R R R =
.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5 = 1 in 1024
or x x x x x x x x x = the unique sequence R R B R B B B R B R =
.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5x.5 = 1 in 1024
or x x x x x x x x x = Sorry, but both specific unique patterns are equally likely. When you say RRBRBBBRBR you're specifically stating that they will hit in order in that specific way. I think this is what's partially confusing you. Free your mind. Learn about the gambler's fallacy. Educate yourself by visiting the wizardofodds.com
Also visit https://vegasclick.com/gambling/fallacy

Last edited: Jan 2, 2018
mr j likes this. 15. ### mr jWell-Known Member

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Thank you!!

Ken

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16. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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Therefore you agree with me that nothing is equally possible.
See, wasn't that hard! I've never said about prior spins, only about what's possible by posting the permutations.

You are partially correct, for 10 results length sequence there are 1024 different permutations, each one of them is equal possible BUT there are more permutations favoring either side, while the balanced permutations exceed only those which favor 1 side (any).
The difference is that I consider it as a total while you consider it individually.
Once again, when Red = 0.5 and Black = 0.5 then Red + Red or Black + Black cannot be equal with Red + Black or Black + Red.
You cannot have it both ways, whether EC's are indeed even or not.

17. ### Dr. Sir Anyone AnyoneWell-Known MemberLineage to Founders

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Now I see that you're trying to back out of your absurd claim by saying red or black on the next spins. HOWEVER that is NOT what you claimed in the original post.

My claim that R R R R R R R R R R has equal probability with this: R R B R B B B R B R is accurate.

Furthermore you don't add the probability to calculate the total probability of the spins. Here's the correct way without the zeros. x x x x x x x x x = Before you attempt to sell anymore systems you need to visit the wizard of odds.com and learn more about the payouts and basic probability. At this point you look foolish when you try and argue that the experts, mathematicians, and history are all wrong. Face the facts,

1. You're not a professional player
2. You suck at math.

Last edited: Jan 3, 2018
18. ### BlueAngelActive Member

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Thank you for letting me know.

19. ### Michael BluejayMember

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I'm sorry I'm late to the game here. I wanted to address two of the questions raised here:

(1) What are the odds of hitting RRbRbbbRbR vs. RRRRRRRRRR?
(2) What are the odds of getting hitting X unique numbers over Y spins?

After reading this thread, I programmed and published two simulators to answer those very questions. I came back here to post the links, but when I registered I saw there's a strict anti-promotion policy, so I'm unable to link. So, you'll have to find the pages yourself (or maybe someone else will post the links).

The link to the first one was actually already posted above, at the end of Post #14. The pattern simulator is at the bottom of the linked page.

The second one is on the bottom of the roulette page on the same site.

If anyone wants something else programmed/simulated, I'll try if I have time, and if you'll post the link to it when it's done, since I can't post the link myself.

20. ### kraps2727New Member

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this is easily solved with math. I have some R and pari/gp code that does this.
example: 37 numbers and 37 spins
u=1 means '1 unique number'
R code results
Code:
```> draw.unique(1:37,37,37)
Prob
u=1   3.50540283520928e-57
u=2   8.67202014891481e-45
u=3   3.31469257354771e-37
u=4   1.18182839605843e-31
u=5   3.00086296852856e-27
u=6   1.35345133852053e-23
u=7   1.76844172118233e-20
u=8   8.95921484234939e-18
u=9   2.12212191187977e-15
u=10  2.66881040667497e-13
u=11  1.95028689696947e-11
u=12  8.84865298526913e-10
u=13  2.62017686982174e-08
u=14  5.26166158674604e-07
u=15  7.38325242694127e-06
u=16  7.41182112863642e-05
u=17  0.000542269221350283
u=18  0.00293391179997579
u=19  0.0118719162519946
u=20  0.0362341129796662
u=21  0.0839160862084421
u=22  0.148023219643352
u=23  0.199188503649915
u=24  0.204369002241182
u=25  0.159436676770486
u=26  0.0940910790104586
u=27  0.0416753206012446
u=28  0.0137013298700464
u=29  0.00329342839765577
u=30  0.00056720089228635
u=31  6.81047323781155e-05
u=32  5.49214475155102e-06
u=33  2.82173007762461e-07
u=34  8.5404104360505e-09
u=35  1.34248666271085e-10
u=36  8.68454983963895e-13
u=37  1.30398646240825e-15
```
here is the pari/gp code/results
pari/gp calculator is online

pari/gp for 24 uniques (example)
Code:
```gp > \\ exact X uniques
gp > s=37;\\spins
gp > u=24;\\uniques
gp > n=37;\\number of numbers
gp > a=sum(k=0,s,((-1)^(k+u-s)*\
binomial(k,s-u)*binomial(s,k)*(s-k)^n)/n^s); 