Craps Where's the proof?

If you produce a video, you can prove your point easily where every setup and even camera belong to you. Same goes with a book where you can even fly across oceans without any restrictions. If you are called upon in a real casino table to prove you point, regarding Dice influence, can you take such challenge?
P.S.: I do not have anything personal against you. I have my reservations regarding such AP claims which has no scientific basis unlike card counting in blackjack or bias analysis in roulette, which has evidently beaten these games, from Thorpe & Shannon to, Joseph Jagger and Pelayo to MIT team. There is no legendary success with your kind of AP.

 

There are two tests of whether you have dice control ability. These are in my new book. I have to get back to work and I must turn off the buzzer that beeps when I get responses or I will be off my writing game.

 

Frank it would be great to see a seasoned dice controller of your caliber with a slow motion video of the actual landing of the dice. The only time I have seen an actual on axis throw is when the dice have a dead stop the first time they hit the table, of course they didn't hit the back wall.
All these videos on you tube with the slow motion results show as soon as the dice hit the deck they start twisting and in my opinion doing random reactions.
By the way your book, Craps Underground: The Inside Story of How Dice Controllers are Winning Millions from the Casinos! insinuates by the title that you and others have made millions from dice controlling. The big question to me is if your making millions that away why would you want the casinos to know? Why teach for $1000 or so per student, wasn't it easier just making more at the casinos instead?
I will say I have read your book Casino Craps Shoot To Win and must say in my opinion it is one of the easiest and more entertaining gaming books I have read. I do look forward to the new one.
Sorry if I took the thread off base a little.

 

Come on Frank,.. how can you dispute all of those videos I've put up? The dice bounce all over the place when they hit the tables, they don't even need the back wall to come into play with the dice, they are just random!

Your eyes do not lie when they see what is really happening in slow motion, but they will lie to you in real time. Back when you started selling the DI thing nobody had slow motion videos of what the dice are really doing once they hit the tables. Now days you can go out a buy a slow motion camera for a couple hundred dollars, that does a damn good job of showing you what is really happening with your dice.

Gone are the days, that any DI school could tell their students that we know it works, there is just to much proof with these videos that there is no way it could work! The other thing is everybody gets lucky from time to time. Most players do not play craps but a few time a year if they are lucky. You can convince yourself that every time you got lucky it was because you took a class from an on axis DI school, but what about all of those that have not and they still get on those long rolls? I see it just about every time I'm on the tables.

Did we all forget who hold the world record for the longest roll, that's right a little old grandmother with her 154 roll. Pat DeMauro was just what everybody calls a so-called random roller, now how do you explain how she beat every so-called DI out there? I'm not going to put up any links to that roll, all anybody has to do is Google her name!

Now I understand that you have a vested interest in Dice Control because you have sold books on it and continue to do so. So you side of the picture may be a little jaded. I have to give credit where credit is due, when Stanford Wong changed his mind on Dice Control, once he saw a few slow motion videos of what the dice really do when they hit the tables.

So when can I say the same thing about you? Don't worry Frank everybody stills loves what you write, but isn't about time that we put everything into perspective.

Don't waste you time correcting any misspellings or any grammar I used in this post, I don't make my living writing, so I'm sure that anybody could find something to redirect away from my post, by saying that I can't write,...so what. I think that I can make a valid point about dice control, with just all of the videos I've posted! It has become a very common practice that if a poster can not respond with answers to a post they start saying that the poster can't write or spell.

No,... Frank I do not want to spend $299 for your two-set DVD. To tell the truth, I can't see how any of your shots would differ from all of the videos that I put up, unless you walk on water!

 

Donald Trump taught classes in real estate at the Learning Annex. Great directors, including Spielberg, have taught directing. Great actors (Lee Strasburg) have taught acting. How much you make in your private pursuit and whether you teach it or not is a personal decision.

The Captain never asked for public recognition; never wanted his name published; never asked me to write about him. He didn't care about fame or glory. He did his thing without the cheers from the crowd. But being me (and as Ralph Kramden said in The Honeymooners "I have big mouth") I wanted to get the information out.

Most other writers are just like me. We experience and we want to write about our experiences.

For me, it happened to be the Captain and gambling, although I do now have two non-gambling books and I am working on a third. I've also written two produced non-gambling plays.

 

Superrick, I do exactly as you say in Cutting Edge Craps. I explain exactly how much the dice really react to the back wall and the layout. That is why the actual edge attainable over the casino is not all that high.

I go step by step through that. You might find it interesting.

I don't need to correct your grammar. It's when writers do odd, as opposed to enjoyable, new things !!!!!! such as all those exclamation points ---------- using signs $$$$$ and ******* things like that to make their wRiTiNg be emphatic((((((and))))) that I find to be just awful.

You make your points quite well.

I also know that no writing of mine can convince you that I am right. That's fine. I know I am right and you know you are right. Right??????????????

 

Oops, sorry, the videos. I don't watch them. I watched my own to reply on the Wizard's site. I just don't want to waste my time proving something about some stranger's throw. I'd rather watch my fish swim around in my new 210 gallon tank. Superrick, you might enjoy getting a big tank for yourself too.

 

Good News .. Bad News.
There is some scientific data about the predictability of Dice throwing.

Source: American Institute of Physics (AIP). "Predicting a die throw." ScienceDaily. ScienceDaily, 12 September 2012. <www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/09/120912083526.htm>.


Article:
Click here: Predicting a die throw -- ScienceDaily

 

In theory anything is possible, there are to many variables for someone to keep their dice on axis. The bounce all over the place once they hit the tables.

You have to remember that on a real craps table you are throwing the dice most of the time over 4 ft in the air and then they start bouncing all over the place.

These on axis DI schools use the theoretical notion that it could be done, but not one of them have ever proved that it does happen. Frank Scoblete wants you to spend $299 on one of his videos that he say does show the dice bouncing all over the place.

If you want to know who makes money off of dice control just ask anybody that puts on one of these on axis DI schools if they make more money off of the tables or their dice classes. Then look at what Heavy had to say about his little hobby, and the fact the he says he is not a professional craps player, he is a hobbyist!

Frank Scoblete writes books, he does not spend his time in the casinos, wouldn't you think if he was winning so much money off of dice control he wouldn't be writing books about it?

Then we have out great fiction writer the Madprofessor, that nobody besides a sock puppet has ever seen him in a real casino. Remember on the board that I help run, we have members that plays craps in the casinos that he says he plays craps in. Those board members even go so far as saying that they don't see so-called DI's shooting in the casinos they are playing in ,..in and around the Ontario, Canada area!

Basically every time I'm in a casino at the craps tables I see these so-called random rollers doing the same thing that the so-called DI's do everyday. They get on some good rolls but they do not have a craps board that they will brag on.

We all want to tell the world how great we are, the so-called DI's have a board that they can brag on any time they have a good roll, then they also have the fiction writers that keeps their hopes high. They believe everything these fiction writers writes! One day whey they get really lucky, and have a good roll they are all over the craps boards telling everybody about their great roll. The sad part is they never tell about all of those losing rolls that they have, even after taking all of those refresher courses.

Once they took that first DI class they had a membership in the good old boys society, they never want to lose that membership and will keep paying to take those refresher courses, and those “After Glow Fee”!

There are a few dozen so-called DI's on these boards that try to shove becoming a DI down your throat, but get them on a table and really see what they do and all of what they have been writing about goes down the drain.

 

Hey, Superrick, come on. I explained about those who do and also teach what they do. I spent 130 days a year in casinos for a long, long time. Over a 25-year span I have played a lot. You can challenge my ideas but don't create a situation about me that is just not true.

 

Frank Scoblete - "You can't handle the truth" ... or plausible deniability

 

Huh?

 

Frank - you don't have 58 seconds to watch this Slo-motion video of an on-axis toss as good as yours that proves the dice scatter, spin and go off axis and become random as soon as they hit the craps table - and them even more random and off axis as they bounce off the back wall pyramids:



The dice may show primary on axis results only due to the math of the cube -- 4 sides out of 6 ... but staying on-axis is a myth !!!

.... and to leave this fact out of your new tell-all book on dice control would be professional malpractice.

To not watch the video allows you to maintain plausible deniability or you just do not want to watch the slo-motion videos as continuing professional education tools for your trade because "You can't handle the truth".

 

The dice in this video do move a lot; in fact a lot a lot. I see little correspondence between them. I handled the ultra-slow-motion movement of the dice by true controlled shooters in my book Cutting Edge Craps: Advanced Strategies for Serious Players. These dice in this video are in fast slow motion.

Are you a lawyer because your questioning style is lawyer-ish. I think you are a prosecuting attorney.

Anyway, I've answered several of these questions so I'll bow out now. Anyone interested in my analysis, I would have sent a free copy of the book but I have run out of them. Cutting Edge Craps is available (with a big discount) on Amazon.

As for I Am a Dice Controller: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Craps! the people (the good, the bad and the rotten) are a major focal point. The book is coming out May 1st. I think it is some of the best writing I've done.

 

Frank,
So what you are saying, "is that because the dice where not thrown by a True Controlled Shooter (one of your chosen elite) that the video does not count?"

I just want to clarify what you are saying.

 

No. I just didn't see what a controlled shooter would do. The dice were great in the air but hit the wall quite hard and scattered. As I said, I saw no correspondence between the dice.

As far as "chosen" elite. I don't choose who the great shooters are --- they choose themselves.

 

Frank, it is because there is no such thing as a controlled shooter, is there. This Dice Control or Dice Influence (DI), its all just fiction, isn't it. You just wrote up these books, invented some stories and persons to create this fictional world where people can 'Control the Dice'. The dice hit the diamond backwall and randomly scatter and there was never anything that could be done about that...except in a fictional Universe with fictional people who played out in fictional casinos. Did you conspire with Dom to act as your front man too?

You know, many people believe that many fictional things are real. Face on mars, alien moon bases, holes in the south pole, hollow earth, that penguins mate for life, and that Napoleon Bonaparte was short (he wasn't). So, believing you can control the Craps dice then is not that far of a stretch now, given all of the other silly things people believe in.

The real money was the seminars, the schools, the videos and books, right Frank? Craps play was really just Craps play, right? You never had an advantage did you. Any gambler can play long enough to see good days, bad days, have a streak of luck and bad luck. But, actually having the advantage? Never was true, was it. No toss, no matter how controlled can ever overcome the diamond backwall! That is the truth, right Frank?

So Frank, I am not calling you out. I just think I am saying what everyone already knows.

 

MARK V: …there is no such thing as a controlled shooter, is there?

FRANK: There is.

MARK V: This Dice Control or Dice Influence (DI), it is all just fiction, isn't it?

FRANK: No. (Superrrick uses that fiction phrase a lot too.)

MARK V: You just wrote up these books, invented some stories and persons to create this fictional world where people can Control the Dice.

FRANK: The stories are real. The persons are real. Real publishers (who do "fact checks") published all but a couple of my 35 books --- Random House, the largest publisher in the world, was one of them. If I invented the persons and got them through "fact checkers" then all these dice "influencers" not with me such as Heavy, Irishsetter, Beau, and those I know such as Satch, Dominator, Jerry "Stickman," the instructors at Golden Touch, and, of course, the Captain, the Arm, Jimmy P. and the Captain's crew, the Lee Brothers (and so on) just don't exist according to you.

MARK V: The dice hit the diamond back wall and randomly scatter and there was never anything that could be done about that...except in a fictional Universe with fictional people who played out in fictional casinos.

FRANK: No. I explain exactly how the dice hit the back wall and can be controlled in Cutting Edge Craps.

MARK V: Did you conspire with Dom to act as your front man too?

FRANK: No. Actually Dom must be a fictional character too, yes?

MARK V: You know, many people believe that many fictional things are real. Face on mars, alien moon bases, holes in the south pole, hollow earth, that penguins mate for life, and that Napoleon Bonaparte was short (he wasn't). So, believing you can control the Craps dice then is not that far of a stretch now, given all of the other silly things people believe in.

FRANK: And you believe something that is real, dice control, is fictional. (I assume you read Skeptic Magazine and Skeptical Inquirer.)

MARK V: The real money was the seminars, the schools, the videos and books, right Frank?

FRANK: The money I earn when I make money is all real.

MARK V: Craps play was really just Craps play, right? You never had an advantage did you?

FRANK: Smart craps play; stupid craps play; craps play without capitalizing the "c" in the word, is, yes, just craps play. Wrong on the second count.

MARK V: Any gambler can play long enough to see good days, bad days, have a streak of luck and bad luck. But, actually having the advantage? Never was true, was it?

FRANK: Streaks abound in all games and in life; that is true. Dice control in my life started in the early 1990’s and for the Captain and the Arm in the late 1970’s. I have all of that in my new book I Am a Dice Controller: Inside the World of Advantage-Play Craps. I hope you buy a copy and read it. But you better use "real" money.

MARK V: So Frank, I am not calling you out. I just think I am saying what everyone already knows.

FRANK: I have no problem being criticized. Goes with the territory. Everyone doesn’t know what you think they know. I certainly don’t know it. Dice control is real. There are real dice controllers who know it's real. There are real tests of the skill that can prove or disprove you have achieved the skill.

Now, only one question for you Mark V, why not in the future use your real name?

 

Frank,
Publishers don't Fact Check books! Recent case in point is the book American Sniper and the Jessie Ventura bar fight story. Never happened! Compete fiction in a non-fiction book! Mr. Ventura did sue Chris Kyle's estate for defamation and won. That story in the book as now been redacted.

Dice Control is an perfect example of Confirmation Bias, in where "you see what you want to see". If you set the Hardway set and then in a few rolls you hit a hardway, confirmation bias then would lead you to conclude that your dice set and toss was the reason for the hardway. This is a fallacy in thinking because hardways will roll for anyone given enough time.

Gamblers are notorious for suppressing negative results. Craps players who think they got 'the edge' are the worst. They will only talk about the good hands they had, but not the many more lousy hands. They will talk about the wins but not the many more losses, and they will talk about those golden moments where they won lots from the casino, but not about those real stinkers of sessions where they gave it all back.

I have tracked probably five thousand Craps rolls at various casinos with various shooters who some display Dice Control skills and others with a grandmothers toss. When I looked to answer the question: Are DI rolls any better than grandma's toss? The surprising answer is no. Many other dice enthusiast who also took dice classes and seminars tracked the dice too as I did and came to the same conclusions: There is no advantage in Dice Control.

Frank, you are right though about Smart Craps Play vs Stupid Craps Play. I am also pleased that you now acknowledge that there are streaks and trends in the game of craps. I know that earlier you denied this fact. Smart Craps Players will capitalize on trends and streaks, be it hot or cold. Only awareness is needed; magical tosses need not apply.

When your book is on Amazon, let me know and I will buy a copy. I have bought most of your other books, why not compete my collection?

 

Mark V: When did I ever say there are no trends in craps or any other casino game? Everything is a trend. However --- and this must be where you got the idea I denied trends --- trends cannot be predicted in such ways as to give players an edge over the casino. Trends cannot be used as a method for getting an advantage. Playing the trends is a waste of time unless you are using "the search for the trend" to delay betting in which case you are reducing the number of your decisions and expected losses over time.

You should play the bets with the best (meaning lowest) house edges. That's the wise choice.

If you can pass the SmartCraps tests you have an edge with dice control. If you have a strong SSR (seven-to-rolls ratio) you are reducing the appearance of the seven enough to get an edge over some bets at the game. These are objective tests and not an example of confirmation bias. You either pass them or you don't. You can't fool yourself or anyone else with these tests.

Now as for your idea that you can capitalize on such streaks and trends (don't get offended) it is nonsense. No mathematician looking at the game of craps, meaning the random game of craps, would give any credence to trend-betting as a way to get an advantage.

Fact checking is a fact. Not just book companies but most quality magazines will actually have employees called (take a guess) "fact checkers" working for them. Kyle's book never mentions Ventura by name. I think Kyle mentioned Ventura during interviews and this is what got him in trouble.

Okay, here is where we are in this discussion. You do not believe that dice control is real. You base this on your observations, the fact that the pyramids are difficult to overcome even a little and also the fact that some players who took dice control (or dice influencing) courses think the whole thing just doesn't work. Fine.

My perspective is different. I spent many years with the Captain, the Arm and Jimmy P. (all dice controllers) in the 1990's. I learned how to do it after three years. I've seen many accomplished dice controllers and these have passed the tests I mention above. As an aside, the fact that I have been banned by whole states and many casinos for dice control supports my position. I can't bullshit the casinos into thinking I haven't won money especially since they know who I am and track my play. That's their test of dice control, long term wins.

So at this point our discussion has reached a conclusion (please let it be over). I do not think I can convince you or anyone else who thinks dice control is nonsense. That's fine. Your not believing in it doesn't make you a worse craps player than you are now or less than a good-willed person.

My positions and proof are clear. You have your angle on this as well. We disagree. That's that.