Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

are there any SEO experts out there who can get this post by Kewlj to the top of the search results?
http://www.gamblingforums.com/threa...scussion-my-final-post.5281/page-3#post-15518

that would be so funny if someone could get it on teh first page of Google when people search for Mike Shackleford lol

 

exactly!

Mike Shackleford aka Steve Urkel and his minions act like WoV is his personal residence but now they're all finding out that it's a place of business and will be treated like such..............

Mike Shackleford aka Steve Urkel thought he cuold get away with treating his valued customers like crap time after time after time.............
but its all finally catching up to him!!

there comes a point when a business mistreats one too many customers and then the business starts to pay a price............
he's experiencing this first hand right now.........................and he's not liking the price! lol

 

Knowing you from years ago, and your previous location and all, I am not surprised you are "internet friends" with some folks involved and that is ok. I don't want to turn this into a "your either with us or against us situation" as other have done. You are a blackjack friend and you are welcome here as far as I am concerned. I would like to get more blackjack folks and AP in general involved here so we can have some beneficial discussions.

But I do have a couple questions based on your statement. What exactly were you looking for that you would pend 12 hours searching for? And if you went into that search knowing that three people you highly respect, two of whom you consider internet friends were involved, do you think you went into it objectively?

One other thing you should probably be aware of. If Qfit's site is one of the forums you went looking on, the record of events have not been preserved there. There have been posts altered, censored and removed. I myself removed hundreds of my best posts from that site, just before I left, because I decided it was a site I no longer wished to contribute to. I didn't want that site to benefit from my contributions.

 

If I were in Mike's position and received this PM, I would have done the exact same thing Mike did. As I've said before on WOV and privately to KJ....KJ being banned wasn't right and it was unfair, even though both parties acted inappropriately, IMO. Many people had your back regarding your initial ban, as did I, Axel, and others who know Mike IRL and have talked to him about it...and we (or at least I) truly believe he wanted you back on WOV. I don't see how anyone can have your back regarding WOV after that, though (well, except LP9, freddy, 1BB, and LarryS). You got dealt a couple shitty hands, but instead of playing them out the best you could, you threw them away. But, you will still be missed at WOV.

 

so if you fucked somebody over and did something dishonest, disingenuous and showed a lack of integrity and morality, you would get mad at the person you fucked over for being upset with you??????? smh

 

Much of the time was trying to find the forums and the threads. Then trying to put a time line together so I was reading stuff in a reasonable chronological order.
Then PMing a few folks to try to fill in some gaps. I even ventured into the cesspool known as the Zen zone.
I believe I've read enough of it to be able to form an opinion, but I don't see any reason to make it public. Honestly, I would have expected more from both you and Norm. I saw sides of the two of you I think were best left unseen.
I'm not going to try and say who I think was right or wrong, or actually who I think was more in the wrong.
I'm not blaming you for anything. I just offered my opinion that you should let it go.
I know you have some great stories to share with a radio audience. I just don't see this episode as one of them.

 

Playing out the shitty hands dealt me,as best I could? How was I supposed to play out these bad hands dealt me RS? I was patient. I waited two months from the time I was banned until I first contacted Mike towards the end of April. Wanted to let him calm down, because I know he is impulsive. All the while Qfit is posting at WoV going back and forth with the membership, saying all kinds of lies about me that I am unable to respond to. And he was lying to you and others in those discussion when he said he never contacted Mike concerning me.

First he tried to be cute and say he didn't PM Mike. Using a technicality because he has emailed him rather than PMed him. He eventually swore he never contacted Mike, when it turns out he had, just as everyone suspected. Turns out he had done exactly what everyone, myself included thought. He returned to the site after almost 6 years of not a single post, for the sole purpose of getting his friend Mike to first, silence me with this truce request and then complained to Mike that I had broken the truce and asked Mike to suspend me and ban me.

So I waited patiently for things to calm down and then contacted Mike. First thing Mike tells me is that yes, Qfit did complain to him. Second thing Mike tells me is yes he knows he handled this very badly but he cannot allow me to return to the site for fear that his good friend Qfit will turn his attacks on Mike. That's bullshit RS! Several weeks later when we are communicating he tells me yes, I have some valid points, but he cannot let me back on the site. That's like having the judge tell an inmate, "yes I know you are innocent, but I can't let you out".

Mike keeps telling me that yes he knows he was wrong but is afraid to do anything about it. He was afraid of Qfit. He was afraid to speak up and tell the truth when Qfit insisted he had never contacted Mike. So yeah, I got frustrated. Since appealing to his sense of doing the right thing was having zero effect, I tried to put a little pressure on him.

So I am the bad guy here. I participate on the site for 4+years. Over 3200 posts. I share my AP experiences in both posts and in a blog. I do a Q & A that was requested of me by the site. And Qfit who has no interest in the site, who hasn't participated in 5 years and 9 months, who even publicly said he didn't trust Mike because of Mike's relationship with Venetian, comes along and requests that Mike first censor and then ban me.....and Mike goes along with it.....and I am the bad guy! Give me a fucking break!

So please RS, tell me how I was suppose to play out these bad hands dealt me? I did everything I was supposed to including being very patient and nothing was being done. Three months after being suspended all I was getting is "yeah I know I was wrong but am afraid to do anything about it." So yeah, I got frustrated. I am the bad guy.

 

Agreed ZenZone is a cesspool. Agreed it brought out the worst in me.

I would love to fill in a few details that I am sure you haven't heard, complete with names of a number of folks you are familiar with from Ken's site, that Norm also banned and/or drove away. But I won't do that here, as that would be hijacking this thread about WoV. But if you are interested, since neither of us can PM here, you can email me at [email protected]

 

You forgot the part where said person told me, "For the rest of my life, which should be for the rest of your life, I'm going to make sure everyone knows you're a dishonest piece of shit, and I'm going to make a special announcement very soon where MANY people of your community will hear about it." There's two sides to the coin, you're only showing one side.



KJ, I'm not saying you're a bad guy nor that Mike/Norm acted appropriately the entire time. Initially, yes, you got fucked and banned from WOV. Leading up to that point, I don't think you were completely out of line and mostly O-K (although, at times, should have behaved a bit more and not spoken to Norm on WOV....talk to Mike behind the scenes, and let the rest of us handle Norm...I think we did OK). After being banned, I think you were patient in that you were talking to Mike privately on DT, trying to get the issue resolved. I don't know what would have happened from there, but it sounds like you were pretty close to getting back on WOV. But instead, you gave him a big F-U....now he's got a good legitimate reason to keep you permanently banned. What did you expect to happen after your last PM to Mike? That's the problem I have here -- nothing to do before the ban and whatnot, but your final PM to Mike...and then thinking Mike is out of line for how he reacted to your PM.

 

Son of a bitch, damn edit is only 5 minutes, argh.

...continued...

EDIT: And not to mention, you conveniently left out your "final PM" from your posts, until Axel asked, making it seem like Mike suddenly exploded for no reason whatsoever and banned you. IIRC, you wrote something like, "I asked Mike to talk to Zuga and let Zuga have the final say in my ban....Mike said OK and that he'd forward a message to Zuga....then a few minutes later Mike freaked out, told me I'd never be allowed on WOV or DT, and that I was now on the shitlist." [not verbatim], but you left out the final PM part...

 

Mike's position? As what the DICKtator? People don't like little Napoleons.

You said KewlJ being banned was unfair...got it. You said you don't see how anyone could have KewlJ's back after "that"...got it. Too bad YOU don't get it.

There is an easy fix to this but it would require your hero to stand up and be a man for the first time in his life. Reinstate KewlJ and the others. KewlJ brought it to the forefront but it's not just about him. What's manboy got to lose? Please don't say his reputation...that has been in the toilet for some time.

The once vibrant, exiting, interesting forum has now become a vapid wasteland...sinking lower and lower every day. If manboy did decide to reverse bans, I think he would be in for a rude awakening when he realized that most would not go crawling back to the dysfunction that WOV has become. A good member gets banned and 2 or 3 lightweights replace him. Way to go.

Someone here recently suggested that the HACK should step down...an excellent suggestion that others have made in the past. But again, that would take a real man, a non selfish man...not a petty little boy.

 

Let me remind you RS, what this is really all about. You saw it all first hand and knew what this was all really about, but you seemed to have forgotten or had someone change your mind or something.

On Norm's site, I had one of the highest poster ratings. I think second overall. So, myself and two other known, respected professional blackjack AP's dared challenge a member who had magically transformed himself from a long time, red chip, part-time player to the worlds greatest professional BJ player, playing this ultra complex count that no one else in the game could possible understand. He told Don Schlesinger that Don wouldn't understand what he was doing. He made outrageously ridiculous claims. 500% increase in winnings. Zero variance and swings.

So because the 3 of us known professional players dared challenge this fraud, the other two professional players were suspended and immediately left the site. I stayed for a while and began to be attacked for almost everything I said, until I was eventually suspended and left after that suspension. Six weeks after I had left, I was apparently banned, somehow retroactively. I only found out when I attempted to log on.

All the three of us did was tell the truth and voice our professional opinions. That was our crime. So on the two other sites that I participated on, BJ21 and WoV, I continued to voice my professional opinion that the guy on Norm's site and the bullshit he was peddling. Pure voodoo.

So Norm shows up first at BJ21. Norm is a longtime member at BJ21 but rarely participated because of a longtime feud with site owner Stanford Wong. I think he had posted 2-3 times in 5 years before showing up to dispute my opinions and asks the administrator there, Al Rogers, to censor or suspend me. Al Rogers refused do so.

Next Norm shows up at WoV, where I am a regular poster for 4 years. Mike himself described me as one of the most valuable members. Norm had not posted a single post in 5 years, 9 months, and again only shows up to dispute everything I say and attempt to have Mike first, censor and then ban me. Mike who considers himself a friend of Norm's went along.

All I ever did was voice my professional opinion that the crap being peddled on Norm's site was nonsense. And as a professional player, I have every right to do that.

The real villain here is Norm. It wasn't enough that he silence me on his site, but he trolled me to other sites that he didn't even participate at and had no intention of participating at, just to try to have me silenced and/or get me banned. Norm is pure evil in my opinion. He is a bully who wants to control what is said about him throughout the internet.

My only gripe with Mike is that he allowed this to happen. He allowed his so called friend to use him to silence me. I don't believe Mike had evil intentions as Norm did. But never the less he was complicite in allowing his 'friend' to use him to bully me. At first I though maybe Mike didn't really understand the whole situation. But as time went on and he confided that he knew he had done wrong but was unwilling to remedy the situation, I lost all faith in Mike. He just is not the honest man full or integrity that I thought he was. Or if he is, he is somehow afraid of Norm or something very strange. I would love to hear him explain himself, but he has gone radio silent, answering no one who voices concern.

That is the facts. I continue to be bullied by not being allowed to voice my opinion, only because it is an unfavorable opinion to a friend of Mike's and that is very frustrating to me. I feel frustrated and very disrespected, for all the time and effort I contributed to Mike's site. And I have now been made to look like the bad guy, to look like a nut, as AxelWolf said, with other AP's backing away from me, simply because I dared to commit the crime of telling the truth and voicing my professional opinion.

Now in answer to your charge, I admit, I tried to pressure him out of frustration because it didn't seem like anything was happening. And the truth is that my PM where I said I was not going to let this go, and his PM where he said, he would talk to Zuga, passed in the mail so-to-speak. By the time I read his PM that he seemed to really want to work something out, I had already sent my PM out of frustration. But even so, even with the statement I made trying to pressure him, it wasn't such a horrible thing I sad that that it should have ended any progress that had been made. I mean he has said (and done) some things that have really offended me along the way and I never closed off avenues of communication and stopped attempting to work this out, like he did.

So I will accept fault for some of the things I have said out of frustration. But the bottom line is I did nothing wrong in this whole situation except voice my opinion, and yet I have been exiled from the site for 4 months now, so I think my frustration is understandable

 

You know what RS, if I have to make my case to you of all people, then I guess I am screwed. Someone came to WoV with the single intent to have me silenced and discredit me throughout the community and if I am having to make my case to you of all people, then I guess he has succeeded. Evil has triumphed. I guess I am going to have to accept that.

 

Yes, I agree with you about Norm and what he has done. I was there at the beginning on BJTF...I don't really know anything about BJ21 as I don't participate there, but I take your word for it. No one changed my mind but me. It's not that I've necessarily changed my mind about what happened in the past, but of something new that has occurred. I have defended you since the start of it all (or perhaps shortly thereafter). I had suspected there was a "missing link", as did others, between the messages between you and Mike....and until Axel asked, there was no mention of it. You're downplaying that PM as "out of frustration". From your perspective, perhaps you see it that way. No one else, and I'm taking a wild stab in the dark here -- especially Mike, sees it that way, like a "Oh, he got a little frustrated and let out some steam". No. This is a full blown attack at someone. THAT is what has changed my opinion as to whether or not you've been wrongfully/rightfully banned from WOV/DT. The initial ban I still disagree with. The new ban, I do not disagree with. I would have no problem if you returned to WOV, as I am not adamant that you be banned. But rather, that I cannot defend you and try to get you back on WOV, in lieu of what has more (most?) recently happened.

I don't think you'd take it lightly if someone said the same thing to you....following you around for the rest of your life, letting everyone know how bad of a person you are, how dishonest you are, etc. etc. [I don't think this of you, BTW.]

 

Okay, we're getting a little melodramatic here. Evil always triumphs, KJ. Hell, if opposing forces have similar skills, then the one with the wider range of behaviors always has the advantage. That's Life 101.

So you (in retrospect) got duped into 3000 quality posts over four years. Four years isn't that long. Cut your losses and bury him if you can. Your rep got smeared even though you were the good guy. Happens every day.

You made your case clear here. People have access. You don't need Shackleford's approval to get into heaven (to take a shot at another thread), so be the professional you are. Idiots are obvious, except to other idiots.

 

Well, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree, RS. These two statements by Shackleford are far more important than anything I said.

1. Shackleford: “I know this whole thing was handled rather poorly but reversing myself is only going to cause Norm to come after me instead of you”.
2. Shackleford: “You have some legitimate complaints but I can't just let you back and continue to bash Norm, who I consider a friend”.

You seem to be giving him a pass on these. If I say to someone yes, I was wrong, but I am not going to publicly admit I was wrong, nor fix the wrong I did to you, I would expect them to be angry with me. I would expect them to think I am a dishonest person and I would expect them to tell everyone they could, what a dick I was being. I would deserve that.

A normal, honorable person would never have said "yes, I was wrong, but I am not going to fix it, I am too afraid." He would have said "yes I was wrong and I am going to make it right." And in the absence of that that honor, that I am sure his parents taught him, I have every right to call him out on it. If you treat people dishonestly, you should expect they are going to tell other people what a dick you are. And that's all I really said....I said it's not going to go away.

 

RS, you and AxelWolf and some others called on me to be transparent and post what I said that pissed Mike off, so I did. And now you want to paint me as the bad guy. You called on him to be transparent and share some of the things he said and he ignores you. You hear Crickets! No transparency at all, which is a major theme at WoV. He doesn't want to post what he said that shows him lying and being two-faced. And that's ok. He gets a pass.

There is two parts to this situation, the unfair treatment of banning me and everything that happened after that, and that includes some things both parties would probably say differently. But the bottom line is without the first part, there is no second part. You are focusing on the wrong issue. The focus should be on the initial incident that caused the whole situation. I should have never been put in the position of trying to 'force' Mike to tell the truth and do the right thing.

 

Not looking for anything, looking at a forum thread that is miss-titled. This thread has become wholly about how kj was allegedly mistreated, and is over + 75% of his posts... ONE person... one person does not a forum make or break. If wov is losing readership, there are a lot more reasons than just one person sounding off about a ex-owner and their gayness. Just change the name of this thread to "all about kj", move ALL of these posts to that name, and see if kj can stay off the clean "wov is dying" board without talking about himself over and over and over and over...................................... I bet a 5 up 12x vulch he can't.

 

Let's look at recent history.

LarryS. was the first one that I recall who openly complained about his perception that the Wiz treated him unfairly; he set the stage, and opened the door for others to walk through.

He felt he was treated unfairly, and I believe, at least "in a way," he was.

Now he and others are using this board to openly outline and explain their claims of perceived mistreatment, and many from WoV are reading what they have to say.

The munchkins have settled down somewhat, but the damage has been done: the old grey mare just ain't what she used to be.

We reap what we sow.

 

(R)eally (S)tupid...................uh no nobody forgot that
do I have to rehash every damn detail for you even after it was posted earlier in this very thread or are you really that dumb??
and that's NOT what kewlj said so who's the dishonest piece of shit now????????????