Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Hopefully his monetized website made him enough money to get his daughter through college. One of his reasons for justifying the need for putting out the tin cup for donations in the first place at that time.

 

One of the things I'm careful about, and always have been, is the debate about actually being "helpful to gamblers." Defining what that means in some precise way.

The reasons I bring this up are several:

1) I'm expert just at one thing -- sports betting. When Shackleford dips his toe in that realm, he utilizes some terrible, fundamentally wrong ideas and strategies. He seems blind to how wrong (in a simple and obvious fashion) some of his recommendations are. So I am left wondering about everything else. One basic goddawful concept was his promoting "parlay calculators." Just roll-your-eyes naive and awful. Don't get me wrong -- I'm sure parlay calculators are great for sports books and if you want to blow money as fast as possible while being lazy. This kind of thing leads me to --

2) Are you really helping anyone's bottom line? Whose bottom lines benefit more from the site -- casinos and offshores and sports books or the bottom lines of site readers? The answer is murky and debatable, at best. The fact offshores wanted to buy the site has its own obvious implications.

3) You know, any promoting of gambling has its own consequences. Those consequences may be unintended, but I argue that if you rub a few neurons together, you can see most of those consequences coming. For example, as someone who has won at college football for 45 years, I am well aware that no amount of coaching can talk most clients out of betting NFL on Sunday after winning on Saturday at college. Any gambling exposure has its own behavioral consequences. Casinos know this. Sports books know this. The guy who is a specialist, for example, and who wins consistently at one sport may be doing people a service. But not if those people then get behaviorally addicted to action and bet every sport on the planet night and day as a result. I recommend "Addiction by Design" by anthropologist Natasha Dow Schull as a gambling bible. What is WOV's actual bottom-line effect on readers and participants?

4) How does WOV really function? Is it a locale for "APs" to swap strategies? Is it a place for 'APs" to shop for "investors?" Do any of the people on WOV really seem like they know what they're doing? I mean, if Dark Oz and Mission and Shackleford ae the creme de la creme of WOV gambling expertise, what does that say? Throw MDawg in there as well. Shackleford tolerating those MDawg stories (and thereby promoting them) is a monstrous black eye to real world gambling. KewlJ was correct about that. It would be as if I had a sports gambling site and tolerated people telling how they've won 75% ATS while getting comped out the wazoo. It's a joke. It makes the site look like a clown car show, and potentially an exploitative one at that. Mission, at least, is honest and gambling-competent and a good reporter, but if he's your "gambling success" flagship, you might want to consider leaving the fleet.

 

First, I have been retired before I even joined any of these forums. Being a floppy and reading gambling articles I got linked to casinomeister and then linked to WOO. Eventually I got linked to VCT and then to GF.

Most of my early morning I am on the computer doing home shit like e-mails, bills, shopping or whatever, playing couple of favorite games, and following along on stupid, bullshit, gambling forums.

The level of bullshit and trolling going on with gambling forums is what makes me want to always go back and see what is being said.

We had the Kiwlj compulsive lying fantasies, Rob Singer and MDawg kings of the troll, Redietz with his endless self-praise, numerous million-dollar gambling winner stories, people winning 100K a year, 100k a month, 100k a week. Personalities like Axelwolf and Darkoz claims to AP perfection. God only knows how much they make. Just to mention a few. I could go on, but I am sure you get the message.

All of this being done in Las Vegas. Where multibillion-dollar corporations are built with only one thought when investing. Taking money from gamblers. They already know as much if not more about what goes on TODAY then the clowns on these forums.

Then we got Mike Shank, the professor with who knows for sure how many degrees in gambling. He sells a forum loaded with the type of people I mentioned above for over 2 million dollars.

Where else could you find entertainment like this. The only thing that could top this is seeing Mike Shank in a clown outfit riding a unicycle with a carrot jammed in his ass up and down the strip.

YOU CAN’T MAKE THIS SHIT UP……

 

When I'm not in Vegas (or in Vegas) through legal work and residuals I bring in $10 - $15K a day. Lately, I need $100K a month or else I go broke. Buying $100K of collectible watches every few months is just part of it.

Then in Vegas I bring in whatever I bring in. Most sessions I win, some I lose. The Adventures of MDawg.

As far as Wizard's having sold his forum for whatever, it was obviously enough to set him on a semi-retired path, which for someone like him who likes to go on hikes and travel regularly, is a good thing. I don't think his expenses these days are very high, but whatever they are they must be covered.

 

That "endless self praise" line reminded me, I need to post that bio from Who's Who in Sports Gambling. My phone finally officially bit the dust, so will get a new one Monday, hopefully with a camera I can figure out how to work.

The thing about alleged self praise -- everything I've posted has been dead on reality. If that is interpreted as self praise, so be it. Like those contest results I posted from last season -- I don't see much in the way of hype in that thread. It's Dragnet style reporting if anything, at least until I actually won TopBet, which was not an easy thing with 1300 entrants. I'll likely never do anything like that again in this lifetime, so I think a little Queen video was okay.

Sports Betting - Obscure NFL Contest Results | GamblingForums.com

 

Alleged Self Praise: Redietz, there is nothing wrong with some self praise. Gambling in any form is a tough way to make money let alone a living. Those that work hard, applying math and other techniques that flip the advantage from casino to player and win long term have every right to share some of that on what are supposed to be gambling forums. If the losing players, long-term losing players that dominate this forum don't like it, too bad.

One of the problems I have is when people only tell of their winning and leave out all the losing. I don't know if you do that Redietz. The potential is there that you only share results from the contest that you are doing well in and don't mention contests where you are in 4328th place. LoL. I am not saying you do this, but the potential is there. A way around this for someone doing what you do, might be to state all the contests you are in at the beginning of the year and then post where you finished at the end of the year. I mean, that is if you want to share this information and it seems that you do.

Now I am pivoting to a broader discussion not involving redietz. Here is how Gambling works. The house of casino has a mathematical edge. So a player who does nothing to change that will win some, lose some, but lose slightly more than he wins over the long-term. That is Gambling 101.

Now a player that is employing something that flips that slight advantage to the player, will win some, lose some, winning slightly more than he loses long-term. This is advantage play 101.

Few AP's shared their results as I did for a long time. But my results through the years have always been of a player that wins some, loses some, winning slightly more than he loses (long-term). I don't think anyone on any forum has shared BOTH the winning and losing as I have. THAT people is how gambling and advantage play works. So I have a real problem with these guys that tell you only of all their winning, while leaving out all the losing. And yes, I am speaking of people like Mdawg and Rob Singer. Everyone recognizes this is how Mdawg operates but think back to 20 years of Singer. He has told of winnings of hundreds of thousands playing progression systems, millions, playing the double-up bug, shown multiple big jackpot pictures on computer screens (with cursors), but not once, not once in all these years has Singer ever talked about losing. And THAT is how you KNOW what is real and what isn't.

 

Now as far as Shackleford: Most AP's don't get very specific in sharing amounts they have won or lost. I am the exception because I decided early on, that was going to be my contribution. I was going to share my experiences including the extreme variance involved with card counting, including long periods of losing. I know the knuckleheads that aren't AP's and don't live the life, just can never seem to grasp this. I remember once I shared a year where I started with 7 or 8 straight losing sessions and the late Alan Mendelson jumped all over me because he just couldn't possible grasp how it worked. I have had 5 different periods of losing that lasted 4 months or longer, at least 3 that lasted 6 months of longer. And I have shared these as I have gone through them. No one else, to my knowledge has shared the good and bad, the winning and losing as I have. THAT IS THE WAY GAMBLING AND ADVANTAGE PLAY WORKS. Not this win, win win, shit.

So anyway, I strayed a bit but back to Shackleford. What we have here is more nutjobs commenting on something they have no idea about and saying what they would like to be because of a bias. Blackhole has no idea what Mike Shackleford has won or lost over the years advantage play. Most of us don't know, because like most AP's he doesn't share that publicly.

It is my understanding from people that know, that for the most part prior to selling his business (websites), the majority of Shacklefords income came from advantage play. Yes, there were some consulting jobs, but for the most part from advantage play. And Mike is a well-rounded advantage player, with his hand in many things at the time.

Blackhole is a known AP hater that has been kicked off EVERY gambling forum he has been on, except this one. So why would anyone believe this clown.

And for the haters that are going to bring up that I have on occasion lied and been less than honest about what I do, almost always attempting to protect myself, this is exactly why most AP's don't share much of the specifics and numbers of what they do. Sometimes we can't share everything and attempting to do so, only gets us in trouble.

 

That thieving lying low down no good varmint is back, couldn't even keep his word about leaving. He lasted, what, two days?

He basically passed through a depressed state where he couldn't bring himself to get up from under the blanket covers in the sewers of Vegas where he lives, but today he must be in some kind of homeless shelter, and perked up...in a manic stage so he made with the nonsense again, the long-winded, rambling drama-laced "I NEED TO set the record straight or I'll go OUT OF MY MIND!" paragraphs that never seem to satisfy, as he then repeats the same things over and over again.

Ozzy: Rob, you certainly have the UNKOOL1 number though, you have him pegged !


RobSinger: Best to just ask kew how close he is to faking his own death again.

And why he looks Pacific Islander.

 

Mdawg, I am done responding to both you and Singer. Troll, spew hate, including bigoted, homophobic hate if that is what the two of you (and several more) need to do to give meaning to your life. It don't change what I do, what I make, where I live. Nor does it change your real results, which everyone has figured out by now.

So do what you gotta do.

 

UNKewlJ was routed off the VCT forum by everyone and anyone. Declared that he was done with that forum VCT and has declared the same repeatedly about this forum GF. But, he is a nervous poodle incapable of keeping to any resolve.

Gottlob pegs the UNKewl one, to a T! The thing about KJ - if you actually read what he writes - is that he constantly echoes the words/phrases and themes of the immediately previous replies by others. As I noted, a while back, he's extremely suggestible. Not someone in control of even his own life. People don't always end up in places like Vegas by their own conscious volition. My guess would be some nut-job living from one day to the next, now on the internet. Certainly of negligible intelligence, etc.

 

Once again Kewlj decides to make another lying post about what he apparently has no confirmed facts about anything he just said here. Just what fits his narrative that would give him an opportunity to get on me.

It is his understanding from people who know?????????? Who are these people that knew? Guess you can’t say cause their ap’s. Fucking joke you are. Just another lie. Not the people who read Shanks posts several times complaining how he sucked at APing, and admitting he never was much good at it. Then tried to work for the casinos as a consultant. Which he got a job somewhere and got fired quickly. Maybe he got fired for APing while on the casino consultant clock. You know the good old double dip ap move.

The majority of Shanks income came from APing. You lying queer fuck. That is why he was forced to post the tin cup for donations from his forum members.

Shank is well rounded advantage player???? You lying crossed wired asshole. The only hand in many things at the time was yours.

What a compulsive lying piece of shit you are.

It sounds like your trying to suck his cock and get back on that shit hole forum.

PS - Please list a few things Shank was into at the time that made him money? I do not mean putting out the tin cup as one of them.

 

double post ignore

 

You have to understand that UNKewLyingJ makes up his twisted mentally defective mind about what is and what is not, and then spews thousand word essays for the rest of time about how it must be.

There is no legitimacy or back up to anything he has to say, which is why he ended up where he is...run out of town for being a
thieving lying low down no good varmint.

 

Varmint

noun
a despicable, obnoxious, or annoying person.

 

Not my place to say anything about what he has or hasn't done to make money APing. That is his business and for the most part he doesn't share that. At least not in the manner I do. But few AP's do share that kind of thing in detail. If you look back you will see a number of times he talked about how to beat this game or promotion...and often other AP's jumped on him. That is what he does. He analyzes games and opportunities. Over the last 15 years + when all these new opportunities came out, you think he analyzed them, figured out how to beat them and then didn't play? Don't be stupid.

I do still communicate with Mike privately, including several times this week. If I have something that interests me, I will ask him. And he usually will tell me. I have inquired a number of times about his card counting days and experiences. This week, when he publicly called out Mdawg and his 1-50 spread, 10 straight hours of play nonsense, Mike mentioned that he has been a card counter for 37 years. Like most AP's and players that did any card counting, I believe he has moved away from it and does little now. Just better opportunities for most of these well-rounded type AP's. Better opportunities, with higher advantages and less risks. That is precisely why there are so few of us pure card counters left. But Mike did much more card counting than people know or think over the years. But as a well rounded AP, that was always just part of what he did.

The tin cup thing was a stupid idea because it gave haters like blackhole a chance to pounce. Forums have some expense associated with them. It is not a lot. Like many gambling forums Mike initially allowed some advertising to offset that cost. But because of the make-up of WoV (many AP's), the pool of people drawn to online casinos was small and diminishing. The other thing that gambling forums do to raise money to cover the small cost is have a subscription section, usually in addition to the free section. Think BJ21's green chip or even Norm's forum has a small subscription section. Once revenue from the advertising dropped, I think Mike was considering that subscription route, but before he went there he wanted to try a voluntary donation type thing. Like I said all that did was give the haters something to hate on. It isn't like Shackleford couldn't afford small upkeep expense, he just wanted and thought the forum should pay for itself.

Fortunately for him, that is when the sale occurred, so he didn't have to consider options like a subscription section. Now the sale, both parties Shackleford and the Casino Bonus people stated what the sale price was. I am sure that price included whatever agreement that Shackleford stay on for a number of years, which I think he has now completed. BUT, both parties confirmed the sale price, yet some of you haters and detractors, STILL don't want to believe that. You want to believe whatever you want to believe for your own agenda. So go ahead. Believe the earth is flat and the moon landing a hoax.

 

Look, Blackhole is an AP hater. I guess because he earned his money through franchising or whatever he claims, he doesn't like (resents) players that make a living gambling. Singer and Mdawg on the other hand are both just losing players. -EV players. Ploppies. Gamblers. Whatever you want to call them, but because they are life-long losing players they don't like players that win either.

Players that win (long-term) using math and other techniques that flip the house edge, work hard at what they do. That none of these 3, or several other haters for a variety of reasons seems to understand that, is their issue. The Late Alan was also in that club of life-time losing or -EV players that seemed to have issue with players that won using the math. Any of these people could have done things to play with an advantage, but always chose not to, but then resented those that successfully did.

And now their hate and resentment has just gotten bizarre. They will say anything about anyone...just make up whatever they want. Mdawg has done it with every AP that ever questioned him. He is currently doing it with Axelwolf....just making up shit, when everyone knows that Axelwolf is a 30 year, well rounded AP.

You guys just hate because you are full of resentment. That is pathetic.

 

By the way, the Evenbob (who posted as Spike here) stuff at WoV is hilarious. Evenbob isn't serious and doesn't believe a word he is saying about first roulette and now bacarát. He is simply coming up with the most ridiculous claims he can, as a way of mocking Mdawg and his ridiculous stories and claims. And he is riling up some of the members in the process.

And we got to see the 'dress rehearsal' of the Evenbob nonsense here before it took it to WoV. But it is all just to point out how absurd Mdawg and his claims have been. Well Played Evenbob/spike.

 

KewlJ -- I listed the contests last year after a couple of weeks. I'm in almost the same ones each year. Not exactly, but pretty close. I'm not in the Wise Guys this year -- if I can't do a good job at 100%, I pass. I may need back surgery, and I'm not going to be in a top notch serious contest that people follow if I spend six weeks on my stomach. People follow me and rely on me, so I had to pass.

If you check last year's thread, I reported on those contests after a few weeks and kept reporting all season. I listed this year's in a thread the other day. I may not qualify for some of them due to deposit/action qualifications, but I assume I'm in those listed.

 

Regarding Shackleford, I understand he tries his hand at many things. His naivete regarding sports betting is disturbing. If his approach to other endeavors is the same, God bless him and his "AP" play.

If Bob Dancer, who has also experimented broadly, is struggling, I doubt Shackleford is running rings around any casinos.

 

I am sorry to hear of your upcoming surgery Redietz. Best of luck. No need to share details if you don't want but I am curious...is it fusion surgery where the fuse to vertebrae together? My late partner had half dozen surgeries on his back after a bad accident when he was in his 30s. He swore each surgery made him less mobile, while doing nothing to relieve pain. He always swore that he would have been better off just doing a life time of physical therapy.

Of course, my partner's surgeries all occurred 20 years ago, most before I met him and there are new advances all the time. In the last year, I read about a football player that had a disc replacement with and artificial disc which will allow him to play football again. I had never heard of that before. So there are advancements all the time.

Anyway, seriously best of luck. Hope it works out for you.