Baccarat Winner's Challenge

If anybody is seriously considering trialling this and want the low down, gotcha's and how to avoid them, just ask.

I've played this way for a lengthy period at my local casino. When you encountered what generally are regarded as "shit shoes" void of streaks, then this method can clean up.

 

It's a very serious approach, I like it...

 

Running a 6 column triple Banker Player as opposed to a 3 column approach.

The problem with 3 column, is being on the wrong side of a repeating 3 by 3 streak, to lessen the impact, you run the shoe using columns of 6, this will prevent to getting snared by repeating 3's after the 6 hand. Basically you can't lose 9, 12 hands in a row as you can using 3 columns.


Mark you score card like this



Let's populate the above with this shoe.



Bear in mind, this bet selection is geared to return a win within a series of 3 bets. It doesn't always work that way!! No matter were you are in the game, the first bet needs to be low. If you are losing, ramp things up for the 3rd bet. Once you win a bet, you no bet the top half or bottom half of the score card.

Totally mechanical, removes the mental anguish of "which side should I bet next". Instead focus on "how much you are going to bet next and the bet after that, if the first bet doesn't come in".

You are aiming for 2 wins per 6 bets. This is not a flat bet option, I ran 4 multi-Labby flexible strings.

So lets see how the above shoe chosen at random pans out...





A rough start, 4LIAR straight off the bat, but keep the faith.

LLLL W LL WWWW LL WWW L W LL WWWW L W L WW L

The gotcha is, it doesn't like overtly streak shoe sections, one of the reasons why I ditched it. When you encounter streak sections (streaks greater than 3 spanning consecutive columns), in which case consider including a trigger to switch to FLD and betting every hand. Lose a few bets, switch back to this 6 Col triple BP method.

You need to be running with split progressions.

It's not a too shabby way to play against a game of random outcomes. it should go without saying, sometimes you have to battle, other times it's a walk in the park. Test before risking your cash, like everything else, it all hinges on your money management.


You could do the same using columns of 8 and using BBBB PPPP (4 streaks should be less frequent than 3 streaks), the problem is, how many bets are you willing to risk in order to win a single bet.

4 Columns using BB PP is to prone to failures due to frequency of 2 series. 6 columns is happy medium.

If you play this often enough, you will occasionally get hit by 6 LIAR, but 6LIAR can happen no matter how you play.

Money, money, money, it's all about how savvy you are, especially when under pressure.

I use the money system that was included in the Gracia multi bank roulette system, along with the Johnson Labby principals. Multiple Labby strings to absorb losses, increment into the strings to stay close to the 33% win rate.

End of any shoe, redo the strings if necessary spreading any drawdowns equally between the number of strings you are running, using numbers that fit your comfort zone. When I played this, I never had to bet double digit figures.

Lose a 6 or 8u bet, simply add 2 x 3 or 2 x 4 to your strings. Win a 1 or 2u bet, rather than cross off the figure 1 or 2 from your strings, instead reduce the largest string figure by 1 or 2.

The wins will come within a series of 3 bets, you have to be smart enough to control the less frequent 3LIARs.

 

Hello Sir,

Just one word, excellent :

There is a way to create a multitude of strategies starting from your basic concept ...

It's not very important, just my manic side that comes out but there is an error in the win / loss record ... You win directly your first bet of the 3rd column of 3's as the next decision is banker after the last 2 players iar from the second column of 3's.

So your win / loss record would be : LLLL WWW ...

Is it still a 64/1 shot as you must win 1 out of 3 bets or 2 out of 6 bets ? Not rather a 8/1 shot ?

 

I mean maniac...

 

Sorry mate, I'm not following!!

Yes they are 8/1 shots, because you are betting at least once every 3 hands.

 

Here are the first 9 results of the shoe you have used : PPP B PP B PP

Here are the first 9 results of your score card : PPP B PPPP B

Normally your score card should be like that : PPP BPP BPP instead of PPP BPP PPB which means you should have won the first bet of your 3rd column of 3's.

I think it's a mistake otherwise I missed something in the way you write down your score card.

 

X Y gets a lot of W/L patterns and will get 2IAR of course but like any other it can get out of sync to certain patterns (in this case P B chops) and lose every hand. Unfortunately it can only win a lot IAR with the PB pattern. I prefer XX YY or, a stutter pattern of XX Y XX Y. both good for breaking up runs and getting good double wins.

 

I see, well spotted, my mistake. It was difficult to type into Excel while looking elsewhere, then you look at the shoe and think "where was I up to". I just wanted to give you a feel for how it works. When I was playing that, I usually flat betted the first column, because I didn't want to risk hitting x number of losses straight off the bat, which immediately puts you under pressure and leaves you cursing

I might end up throwing the shoe somewhere LOL

 

Thanks for the answer, I understood that the purpose was to describe the mechanism and that it was probably a superficial mistake.

Is it possible to start the system anywhere in the shoe? for example, 21 hands have already been dealt then I start my first column of 4's, I win directly, I open 3 times (free hands), then I start a new column of 4's, I win at my third bet, I open once and then I start again a new column of 4's and so on ...

 

I always start with a new shoe, if the shoe is in progress, I'll count back and start the column in the appropriate place. Columns of 6's,, 21 hands dealt already (look at the score board, minus the ties), the last 3 hands will be recorded at the top of the column.

I know it doesn't really matter. But what if you started mid shoe and got creamed, you would be pretty upset that the results were out of sync, I know I would, I'd be livid for not being more patience, professional and less eager and waiting for a new shoe. .

So you're exploring columns of 4's, good luck with that, been there done it. The problem I found with 4Col, is there was too many LLW's. Sure the bet selection isn't failing, but the money management was difficult. Labby's don't perform too well after a few losses against LLW's.

You might be better off running columns of 8's, and doing exactly what I demo'd above, it will save you against any 4 by 4 back to back runs. Then again designing a suitable progression is quite hard when the bet selection is designed to return a win inside 4 bets. The bet selection is not the issue, it is the staking plan.

 

Very interesting, so the best is to be sync with the shoe, very clear now...

With your experience, what would be the most appropriate columns to use? columns of 6's (2 times 3) as the demo above? Columns of 8's (2 times 4) with the same rules as the demo above? or something else ?

I tested columns of 4's a lot the last 2 days, I will post my approach and my results in a next message...

 

Everything hinges on whatever money management you are going to deploy. 2 columns of 4, is more robust without a doubt bet selection~wise, probably no need to incorporate a FLD switch (bonus). But you're playing a game which is geared to win a single bet within a series of 4 bets, that can be an issue. LLLW, LLLW, LLLW, cool the bet selection is working, but the money management is tough. Useless playing multi-Labby strings using 4 columns, will work from the onset, but won't later in the shoe. So the happy medium for me was 3 columns x 2.

When testing 4 columns x 2, you need to see how often you lose 4 in a row. Then you need to figure out, how you would bet it. Won't work with a Labby (single or multi), Fibo is too risky and the Marty is a non-starter, which doesn't leave you a lot of options.

Look forward to seeing your results, also your thoughts how you would bet it, then I may share the only possibly money option that might work (sizeable bankroll required). Once I see what you're testing, I'll give you a different slant , I've a gut feeling what you are testing

 

The objective of the test is to know if the tested method can be a recurring money maker or not, the approach is thus financial and pragmatic.

No need to test the probabilities of success of any column, I think all this is already available on the forum.

The concept as a whole is very broad, given the multitude of combinations or strategies that can be applied. Theoretically, everyone should, in their own way, find happiness.

I explored for about forty hours columns 3 to 8 with the principle of 1 or 2 wins per column depending on its length (no need to explore that for the columns of 3 for example because it is too short) .

I found some surprising things and so far are real money maker. Again, focus only on columns 3 to 8.

In total, I found a dozen different ways to approach the thing.

Here is my first approach:

Starting with the columns of 4 seemed like a good compromise and starting point (16/1 shot for a win).

Columns of 4 are also too short for the principle of 2 wins per column. So 4 bets for a win to guarantee me a 16/1 shot.

I never start at the beginning of the shoe, it's too risky and I do not want to start with a handicap. Flat betting is also inappropriate because it breaks the initial probability.

In general, the idea is to keep the probability of success as high as possible.

Tie games do not exist and are never counted.

All the tested shoes come from brick and mortar casinos that I played in the past with real money. This is an important point especially in terms of synchronization to hold with the shoe based that you play online or brick and mortar. The fact that the player cuts the shoe before a game makes the synchronization becomes subjective unlike an online game.

First test salvo:

I get in sync with the shoe from the fifth hand and I play the whole shoe while remaining synchronized.

I apply a 3 steps marty to test the depth of the necessary bankroll as well as the ratios wins / losses and gains / risk (20 years in the finance, it is not forgotten).

The goal is to gain one unit per column to stay in line with the odds of initial success. The bet sequence is therefore 1 2 4 8 (only a negative progression).

I choose the column to play depending on the progress of the shoe and the perception I have of the latter.

No switch or brakes installed, I test gross.

Result of the first test salvo:

The initial probabilities are verified, I win 8 to 9 columns out of 10 tempted.

Economic disaster expected, a loss or 2 losses cost me 15 to 30 units while the 8 to 9 wins only yield 8 to 9 units.

13 shoes tested: 10 shoes lost for 3 gained and a total loss of 50 units (+29 -79).

To shorten, I pass the second and third test salvo.

Fourth test salvo:

I beat randomness by randomness at all levels.

I go out of sync in each shoe in quadrants 2 and 3 of the latter.

I apply the same martingale of 3 steps 1 2 4 8.

I always change columns and this column is randomly selected.

I set up a stop win at +3 units.

If I meet a 4LIAR in a shoe, I play it until the end. The probability of a second 4LIAR in the same shoe is low.

Result of the third test salvo:

74 shoes tested: 62 shoes won for 12 lost and a total gain of 65 units (+186 -121).




Difficult to lose with this method, ratio of 5 wins for a loss nevertheless it is a method that must be played with a low base unit with the aim of getting some pocket money.

This is my first approach, the last ones I tested are promising, stable and can be played with a higher base unit. They include stop loss, stop win, switch and brakes. They play in fibo and Labby without going too high.

 

Great post, I can see we are on the same wave length in a lot of aspects. I'll respond later this evening when I get back home.

I have to get ready and go and spend the day in the company of some American who's flown over. A no nonsense dude, long beard, arms covered in tats, holes in ears, looks like a bad arsed bikie. Worked for homeland security for over 10 years, closely involved with the CIA, NSA, TS1 security cleared, must be fun when he goes through airport security.

 

Good one, self explanatory

Agreed

Would be interested to see if you are4 doing something I haven't considered or tried. Personally I would consider columns of 6 or 8, they protect you against back to streaks of the same length,

Of course, for example simply playing to middle results, playing a random game against a set of vs random outcomes

Absolutely, too many times, I've won the first bet, gone for a second win and run into LLL...

True.

Agree

Going to have to disagree on this, ditch the Marty, 3L or 4L inflicts too much damage, Then there is pressure to recoup before you get hit again. A single 4 Step Marty loss, makes it unlikely that a 4Col option will end positive. Unless you do something crazy such as a staggered Marty.
1-24-8, followed by 2-4-8-16, followed by 4-8-16-32, simply not worth the risk. You may win further columns, but if you hit 4L before you have recouped, your history.

Not necessarily, IMO the aim to to produce an overall profit for the overall session, columns can consist of recovery bets, no problem with betting 1-2-2-3 for example. Ditch the Marty.

You shouldn't be losing 10 shoes, given the number of full column failures vs column successes, the problem is, you lose too much for any column failure (no doubt due to the Marty). You also have the option of waiting for "virtual losses".

Nope..

Shit happens, you can lose 4LIAR three times or more in a shoe, you need to be prepared for it, able to handle it in advance.

Grind out your pocket money, it will add up, then switch to bigger unit levels to recoup.

As I said, 4Columns x 1 or x 2, are difficult to design a suitable MM for. A possibility would be running 4 Labby strings. As the strings change in value, those strings with the biggest 'next bet' size should be brought into play for bets 3 or 4, the lower value strings for bets 1 or 2.

If you suffer 4Liar, put those losses into the lower value strings, when you start winning the lower value strings, leave the lower value strings and reduce the bigger value figures no matter where they reside.

I am going to ask, have we have communicated previously on any other boards??

 

This is the first time we are talking together Sir ... I am not a big fan of forums. This is the only forum where I am, there are some interesting characters here ...

I am currently in a 1 month casino trip, I will play (in about an hour) for the first time one of my last approaches to the columns...

 

Cool JB, good luck, let's know how you get on...

 

JK, is he playing off the 7 column format? Columns and rows? Or is his format something else?