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Roulette Turbo vs Steve

Discussion in 'Roulette Forum' started by theLaw, Jun 30, 2018.

  1. Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone

    Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone Well-Known Member Lineage to Founders

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    I did. You were too afraid to accept the challenge. After viewing your list of oxymorons and deep thoughts I thought that you had a real chance too! (Not! ;))
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  2. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    We rarely ban members here (mainly spam bots). Our community is truly a safe haven for all gambling opinions. However, those opinions must be expressed respectfully as per our rules or we will punish our members with the dreaded temporary slow down (but never a ban).
     
  3. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    Ya know, its all in the wording I guess. Ok, its not a ban but it is a ban (then a wink).
     
  4. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    Its like this......lets say you changed the time to 120 minutes for a message to post (lol). I guess you can still say, he's not banned.
     
  5. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    I found a way around that. When I had my "ban" (sorry), I found a short cut.

    Ken
     
  6. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Nonsense. No one is afraid of anything.
    Of course your goal was to see what and how I play, just like Steve and his "MPR"
    Nice try. Or not a nice try since it didn't really work out did it.
    I'll just keep winning and you can keep telling me I'm not winning... makes sense.

    There's one thing - someone who posts ONLY insults, no gambling related information and then
    posts insults about family members, nonsense constantly, etc etc.. there's no reason a
    person that disruptive to everyone should be allowed access to a forum.
    It drives away productive posters and contributors as well, they go somewhere else.
    (and often abused there as well)
    I completely understand wanting a open and censor free environment but the
    punishment for violators is basically a slap on the wrist over and over. They are motivated
    by annoying others so they won't like the "delays" but will wait and then do it again,
    over and over unless they are removed.
    It's like a person drunk driving and the court say "no driving for 3 months" then they appear
    in court again and it's "6 months", then it's "12 months", then it's maybe jail time, then
    it's permanent loss of license, then it's....... because they will still drink, still get in a car
    and still drive. They have no respect for authority or others. They enjoy and feed on the
    "I'm a rebel" effect they have.

    So banning them removes the disruption and everyone else can continue on.
    But it's just my opinion.
    I was co-admin at VIP Lounge and Steve actually asked me to be a mod at his forum...
    imagine that, I would have been stripped of my medals like a "fake warrior" I suppose...
    But my comment about toleration is how I feel, either you have a censor free forum that
    will be abused, or a overly moderated forum where people can't be free to discuss things.
    Somewhere in the middle is the perfect mix.
    Expecting members to hit the "report" button is fine - but that isn't something most people
    are comfortable with. Imagine a situation where a member has to go to the admin and
    say "He said this, she did that, he did that, he said this" every time one of the very few
    disruptive people do something. Then the punishment is not stopping them from doing it again,
    but instead they are inconvenienced with slower page loads, etc. Those kind of people
    will more than likely just think "When this is over I'm going to really make it worse !"
    They aren't usually the brightest bulbs in the pack lol.
    Or a crime watch program where the police say "If you see someone selling drugs on your
    street, call this number". They know this doesn't work - people won't call. When they do
    they'll just see the dealer back on the corner the next day. Analogy only, it's not that
    hostile on a forum lol

    Ok, thanks for the replies and for reading. I hope your way works. A place for people
    to share ideas without being harassed and all points of view considered is the best forum
    anyone could make.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  7. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    Good post TG. I really meant the wording of what a ban is. Why mess with the wording and say its not a ban? To feel better?

    As much as I cannot stand Bago, to slow everything down, is a ban, imo.

    Ken
     
  8. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    As I have said before, if a member says I dont have a decent method(s) and I know I do.......it is VERY difficult to not fire back.
     
    Nathan Detroit likes this.
  9. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    It's like this - find a post where he contributed something positive to the gambling community here.
    It'll take some time but go look.

    Anywhere in those 500 posts, was there was single instance of the rules (#1 or #2) not being broken and where relevant info was posted. At some point you have to understand that certain people aren't here for
    the benefit of the community but rather for their own entertainment and to troll.
     
  10. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    I said it before, I would post a TON MORE "smart" roulette info if I KNEW 100% I would not be tampered with. The people who insult the most, I believe, have acquired the LEAST in regards to skill sets in order to conquer (not HG) this game.

    Ken
     
    Nathan Detroit and TurboGenius like this.
  11. Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone

    Dr. Sir Anyone Anyone Well-Known Member Lineage to Founders

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    What are you talking about? I already know how you play. LOL!

    Besides, my way is MUCH better than your way.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
  12. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    That makes no sense.
    The whole purpose in winning is winning.
    Why is the mentality - "my way works, yours doesn't" when it comes to some people ?
    It's the players (using whatever they use) against the casino.
    Or the players (using whatever they use) against the game and the math.
    It should never be about the players fighting with each other over what's better.
    You win, I win, Steve wins... it's that easy. Or we can just argue who's got the biggest...
     
  13. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    Win in any form has my respect. (except luck)

    Bob and Frank both bust their a** with this game. Both guys are "winners" but they play differently. Bob and Frank have my full respect and I would buy them BOTH a nice steak dinner. One does not get steak while the other gets Spam.

    Ken
     
  14. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    There, you can relax now. I don't want you to pop a blood vessel stressing lol
    +$21,201.00 You should have the HG instead of me, it might help you relax.
     
  15. Nathan Detroit

    Nathan Detroit Active Member Founding Member

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    My thanks for the Administrator of Gambling Forums for his remarks in this thread .

    Nathan Detroit
     
  16. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    It's not a ban. The slowed down members can still participate like any other member. Case-in-point: Bago. He's currently slowed down but still actively participating. Plus, the punishment is only temporary, although each punishment period increases with new infractions within a 6 month period. So good behavior will keep any slip ups to the minimum punishment, but continuous bad behavior within a 6 month period will lead to longer and longer punishment periods to act as a growing deterrent.

    We will never change it to anywhere near that amount because we agree with you that such a long delay would be functionally equivalent to a ban. We always test the slowdowns ourselves to make sure the site is very frustrating and annoying to use but still usable. Again, the proof that our current slowdown is not functionally equivalent to a ban is the fact that Bago (who is currently slowed down) is still actively participating. If the slowdown is not serving as enough of a deterrent, then we can of course increase the pageload delay as we mentioned previously. However, that would only be done gradually, and if we ever noticed that the increased delay actually keeps the slowed down members from participating, then we'd decrease it accordingly until we found the right balance. We always course-correct all aspects of our moderation here until we strike the most effective balance for each part. Needless to say, the only way our rules will be respected is if we enforce them, but we prefer to punish our members with slow downs that allow them to continue expressing their views than to ban and censor their point of view.

    The way around it won't allow you to post, however, so members have no choice but to suffer the slowdown if they want to participate in any discussion. And the main reason a member gets slowed down is because of something they posted, so they would presumably want to continue posting for which there is no way around the slow down. Thus it serves its intended purpose.
     
  17. TurboGenius

    TurboGenius Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    What if the person clearly has no views aside from disruption of the forum, and it's members -
    and even says so openly, that they are here for their own entertainment.
    Again, I agree with the uncensored approach but there has to be a line drawn where someone
    who never contributes aside from personal attacks and insults is removed.
    That's just my opinion. I don't see it as censorship.
     
  18. mr j

    mr j Well-Known Member

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    I will PM you.
     
  19. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    If that's all they do, then between our slowing of their access and our moving of their posts to the Off-topic and Insults Graveyard like we just did with Bago's most recent post, they will eventually give up. We've had serious trolls before in this community, and we ran them out. Once they realize it takes them a long time to write a post only for that post to be quickly moved to the Graveyards, they lose their incentive to keep violating our rules. It takes us just a few seconds to give a member an infraction and to move their posts to the Graveyard, yet it takes them much longer to create their posts. So they cannot win this war of attrition with us because they will end up wasting an order of magnitude more of their own time than they will of ours. We still prefer to fight that war of attrition with potential trolls because we still believe that if they are a part of this community, it's because they have some gambling knowledge to contribute, so we don't want to completely silence them forever. To Bago's credit, not all of his posts have violated our rules, so we know he's capable of participating productively here without violating our rules. Right now he's clearly upset and lashing out, but as we've seen time and time again, that will soon pass and he will either give up or he will start respecting our rules. What he won't do is win this war of attrition with us because for every 5 minutes he wastes trying to violate our rules and waiting for pages to load, we waste 10 seconds giving him a new infraction and moving his posts to the Graveyard.

    The only way it will drive productive posters away is if we don't deal with such rule violators immediately. But again, that depends on our members. Our members have to do their part and report rule violations so that we can take swift action. Using Bago as an example again, if you folks had simply ignored him and reported his rule-violating posts from the start, we would have quickly sanctioned him and moved his posts to the Graveyard, keeping things productive and on-topic. So it doesn't matter if there is a troll in a community who isn't banned as long as he is dealt with swiftly so that threads stay clean and on-topic. So we ask our members to please help us with that in order to keep our community as productive and respectful as possible. There has never been a troll who has won a war of attrition with us. Never.

    We believe it's more than a slap on the wrist. If anyone would like to experience the slow down, please request it and we'll slow you down for 24 hours so you can understand just how detrimental it is. Of course, in Bago's case, we didn't start taking action against him until very recently because he was only reported very recently, but we expect his behavior to improve very quickly now that he's experiencing the full brunt of our moderation with his punishment period only growing and his rule violating posts getting swiftly moved to the Graveyard. When we know a member is trolling, we keep an even closer eye on them so that we may act quicker. We will not allow any member to knowingly disrupt our community.

    We disagree and please allow us to prove it to you specifically in Bago's case. Remember, we don't just slow them down, we also move their insulting posts to the graveyard where they don't get the attention they are seeking. So as long as the rest of you report his insulting posts and ignore them, we'll quickly extend his punishment period with new sanctions and swiftly move his posts to the Graveyard section. What motivation will he have then to continue insulting others? None.

    We don't believe that analogy is accurate. A better analogy is a drunk driver wanting to make headlines by running people over who has his car slowed down so it's more difficult for him to harm others while drunk, and when he does attempt to harm others while driving so slowly like a grandmother, we immediately teleport him to the the middle of the desert where there is absolutely no one for him to run over and no way for them to make headlines. For how much longer do you think they'll waste time moving 5 mph trying to hit someone if they keep getting teleported and unable to make the headlines and draw the attention they so desperately seek?

    Banning them also permanently censors them. What if in all their ramblings and insults, they hold one key nugget of useful gambling information that could truly help others? If we permanently censor them, there is no chance for that nugget to ever surface. But if we instead show them that being disruptive is completely useless here, they will either give up or start respecting our rules. The former is no worse than a ban, but the latter still allows any potential nuggets of useful gambling information to surface.

    Thank you for your feedback as we genuinely value it.

    That's the perfect mix we want to achieve and truly believe we can achieve, but to do so, we need our members to do their part. We cannot stress this enough. With the help of our members, we can take swift action against those attempt to disrupt this community and thus keep discussions productive and on-topic without having to permanently censor anyone. However, if members do not do their part and hit that quick "Report" link when our rules our violated, then the community will quickly devolve back to chaotic battle royale because we do not read the vast majority of the posts.

    Keep in mind that it doesn't always have to be the same person doing the reporting. We just need 1 person to hit the Report link in order to bring it to our attention. With Bago's most recent post, 3 different members reported it. So our plea to use the report link more often is already having a positive effect, and has allowed us to take very swift action against Bago's most recent insulting post.

    It has stopped members in the past. Bago only very recently got slowed down, so it's still to early to judge the effect it's having on him. He only just a few minutes ago experienced his insulting posts moved swiftly to the Insults Graveyard. Give it a few days and I think you will see that he will come around because he will realize that we simply cannot win a war of attrition against us, least of all when we have multiple members keeping tabs on him and reporting his offending posts.

    Except the more he breaks our rules, the longer his punishment period lasts. So if he continues to break our rules, there won't be a "when this is over" because his punishment period will never end unless he starts behaving.

    We don't make such judgements because we aren't qualified to do so in the gambling sphere. We do, however, have a tremendous amount of experience with trolls and a troll has never defeated us. We have a perfect record against trolls as long as we are made aware of them.

    This isn't really accurate though because neighbors are calling (e.g. Bago's latest insulting post was reported by 3 different members) and the dealer won't be able to get back on the corner the next day because his current punishment period is going to last several days due to the number of infractions he's received. He may still decide to waste a long time to write a new insulting post, but with our neighborhood watch now more alert than ever, his insulting posts will quickly be moved to the graveyard and his punishment period will be extended. Again, he can't win. He'll either give up or start participating productively.

    Thank you. That's been our goal from Day 1. We just need the neighborhood watch to do its part so we can swiftly break the dealers' legs and drop them off in the middle of nowhere so that they have to spend a long time crawling back to their corner to deal again.
     
    TurboGenius likes this.
  20. Admin

    Admin Administrator Admin

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    We touched upon this in our previous post. With such trolls whose only real objective is to disrupt our community, it essentially becomes a war of attrition between them and us. What takes them 5 minutes to post takes us 10 seconds to sanction and move to the Graveyard. With multiple members reporting the trolls posts, we can react very swiftly. Real trolls just want attention, so when their offending posts are swiftly moved to the Graveyard and their access to the site is made painfully slow, they lose their motivation to troll since they have to jump through hoops only to have their troll posts end up in a Graveyard. So we completely eliminate the trolls motivation to troll without having to censor them. But again, for us to be able to do that, we need our members to report their offending posts. The troll will eventually give up as they will realize it's simply not worth their time. They simply cannot win a war of attrition against us and no troll ever has.
     

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