Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I know that I have virtually no chance of reinstatement on WOV. I already mentioned that I rolled over, became a Doormat, and did EVERYTHING that was asked of me and I am still banned on WOV. I wonder of I would have gotten a lot of respect if I refused to do those requests. I did all those requests and am still be banned, so not doing those requests wouldn't make a difference anyways. I was just wondering why you have such a burning Vendetta against WOV when you are not banned there.

 

You're welcome, I'm glad to hear that I didn't do any of the things that you suggested. As far as Administration goes, the only thing I can say (without knowing specifics) is that I likely acted or did not act as I saw it. However, I will freely admit that I may have exhibited a bias in favor of posters of certain subjects, but I don't think I ever explicitly had a bias against posters of certain subjects. Quite honestly, I don't really mind betting systems posts (there is a separate category just for that, after all) as long as the poster doesn't refuse to acknowledge the math once proven, which you say you did not refuse to do.

I can also say that's it's definitely nice not to be an Administrator, in that I can basically post in whatever manner I want to provided it is within the rules. Not that there was ever any explicit pressure, but you kind of put it on yourself to toe the line on certain things whereas you might take a harder stance when not an Administrator.

I appreciate the not identifying me by name in that one as well as the not posting identifying information. You have definitely kept your word on that one.

I have not remarried, though the same lady and I have been together for well over five years now and are engaged. There's no set date for a wedding yet mainly because we look to be paying for it ourselves...so there's first the matter of saving up the money and then then tougher decision to actually spend it. We're not quite sure yet of the size and scope of what we want to do, but we're definitely talking in terms of years. It's not impossible that we will do the courthouse thing (especially if tax/insurance considerations come to be the case in the future) with a formal ceremony to take place at some point in the future. To this point, getting married would have no financial benefit for either of us, though.

 

Big day for the super smart Vegas *cough* APs today. Word is they have rounded up skid row bums and placed them in lines at Macy's to get free $10 gift cards. I was wondering where all those pickup trucks were going. The line at the Spring Mountain Macy's is huge....but what's that foul odor? EV for everyone....right boys?

 

Holy fuck- are you actually saying it's alright to INTENTIONALLY leave YOUR players card in a machine, hoping someone doesn't notice? I know exactly what you did and still do, It's happened many times with me being the schmuck that doesn't catch it. I never use player cards, never will and never pay attention to where they go. I don't gamble enough to make a dent in player cards. But 1000% of the time I've sat down or played a line of same games and AFTER I played while looking at the next one in line and when there's no one lined up or even around, I might slot in a coin in the next one I'm going to and that's when I see a card in what I'm at. What happens next has been the 1000% every time is someone instantly appears out of nowhere and goes 'Oh my, I forgot my card there, I hope you weren't playing long!" What total utter criminal bullshit as the person male/female was standing close by watching me hit the game. Some have shown up when I've won a few decent rounds, but NOT BEFORE I HIT!!
That's what you did and maybe probably still do?
How is gaming and exploiting people like that OKAY? What the fuck do you mean it doesn't exist? You absolutely know you even get credit just for sticking your fucking card in the machine. Just inserting the card casinos give use credits. It's percent of a percent, but it still registers as positive. Know what else people like you do? You watch and if it's a big hit, you come over and say you had that game, see, my card is in it! I was going to the shitter! I've had my friend get attempted stolen from by the fucking crook trying to claim his win. If it wasn't for a employee near by who saw the scam and knew the fuck trying it, my friend would of lost over 300 bucks. That's a big win to pedestrian non ap gamblers like he and I. And don't try and stay that shit doesn't happen, because you know it does, you do it. And shit like that is in every casino in the country.

I have no idea why you dropped in to apologize to multi man like that, maybe you're another freddy, but I will state you're a sanctimonious low brow scum phony a-hole to even try to rationalize and decriminalize dishonest ghetto conduct.

Obviously my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but with at least one real person here, me, has more respect for a homeless dog than you.

It also pisses my off that you would make me log in again with such a hypocritical moronic comment.
And I don't give a flying fuck what your response would be if you even bother.

Good luck working the bottom feeder and free credit gambling.


I agreed at the time and still agree that it's a bottom-feeder AP play. Although, I would counter that it is substantially greater in value than searching for abandoned credits and takes far less time. I believe I mentioned that I wasn't exactly scouring the floor to do this, basically, I played to the level needed to keep my own free play offers going (positive EV by itself) and then, on my way out, would basically just select a machine I knew to get a lot of action and put my card in. At least in theory, it doesn't take anything away from anyone because, upon going to put their own card in, a person would notice that there was already a card in and remove it. Basically, I was just racking up the points that, for all practical purposes, otherwise wouldn't exist to begin with.

And, again, no argument at all it was a bottom-feeder play.

However, nothing constitutes, "Fraud," because the casino's materials themselves would tell you that the points and free play have no cash value. You can't defraud someone of something that they themselves are describing as valueless. Also, no illegal means were being used, which also goes against any potential fraud argument. In fact, what was done only arguably violates the casino's own terms & conditions and might not even explicitly do that.

 

Oh and almost forgot. How the fuck is that not fraud or cheating the casino? Someone else is using their money to play while you rack up points WITHOUT using your money like you're supposed to rack your points YOURSELF. Did you conveniently forget that little issue? What bullshit. Written like a true scum.

 

Nate,

I only vaguely have any idea what you’re talking about. Like I said, on the multiplier days, I did my own playing and then stuck my card in one of those machines and left the casino. As far as, “Still do,” I don’t even do that anymore. Haven’t done it since that day in terms of intentionally leaving a card in a machine.

Anyway, the whole entire thing consisted of putting the card in and leaving. The next time I would come back (a different day) there were either more points on it or there were not.

I don’t know what casino you’re going to that gives, “Use credits,” (a term I’ve never even heard) just for putting in your card when the only way I’ve ever seen points obtained is for actual bets to happen. In fact, it’s a terrible idea if you’re not intending to play that day because it would pull down your ADT and negatively impact your offers.

I’ve never claimed a win that doesn’t belong to me, I wouldn’t even have been there to see it...but even then not something I would do. I also wouldn’t have stood around waiting for people to hit this or that because I’d just stick my card in a machine and leave, so I’ve no idea who hit what. Also, any pays go to the person who hit the button, not whose card is in there.

I think you’re mixing up what I was doing with people who leave a negligible amount of credits on the machine hoping whoever sits down hits something and they come in yelling. I’ve never done that in my life. I wouldn’t leave any credits on the machine, so could not even come in making such a claim. That’s an important thing to look for, though. If you see credits left on a machine, cash it out and put the ticket on top of the machine or give it to security to avoid any potential unpleasantness. Definitely something you want to be on the look out for.

 

Mission, I have a personal and serious question for you. Especially since you used to be a WOV Admin yourself. Do you think I was being played by doing EVERYTHING that was asked of me after that stupid one time cussing rant that I started to regret just 4 days later and am still banned? I gave away my dignity and self respect running around begging to be let back on WOV amd doing every single request asked of me to do. Do you think I should have not done those requests and just said something like,"Fuck off," when asked to do those requests considering the fact that I am still banned anyway after doing those requests? Wouls I have gotten a lot of respect by refusing to do those requests?

 

I didn’t say it wasn’t cheating as far as getting points for spins you didn’t bet, I said it’s not fraud. Fraud is a legal term. Legally speaking, the casino takes the position that free play and points have no cash value, so you can’t defraud an entity of something they consider worthless.

Otherwise, when a casino decides it doesn’t like me picking up free play and it kills all the offers on my card that they said I had earned, that would also be fraud. Except it’s not fraud, because the offers have no cash value and they reserve the right to terminate them anytime.

If one thing is, “Cheating,” so is the other. How about when they do a loss rebate promotion and start 86’ing people before they collected the free play from the rebate? Would you not consider that cheating? How about when you have to make 20 phone calls over weeks to get the free play from the rebate months later than they said when how and when the free play was supposed to appear was explicitly in the rules? Is that not cheating?

At this time, I don’t do anything that would even remotely constitute, “Cheating,” even with the most liberal, capricious and subjective definition you’d want to give the word. That said, if they’re not above legal means of cheating, why should I be?

 

Don’t take this the wrong way, but I have virtually no idea what you’re talking about as I paid almost no attention whatsoever to that whole thing. Because I’m not an Admin there, I had no reason to be interested in what was going on with that. Thus, I’m not qualified to offer an opinion.

 

Here are some of the very thoughtful, useful contributions by the WoV good old boys to that "gambling" forum. A best of...if you will. Enjoy these recent tidbits.

Someone asked what happened to member djatc. PokerGrinder responds: "He was deported back to Kazakhstan for his extra curricular activities with farm animals." He then posts: "RS, Max, or Axel will confirm this."

Gordonm888 dispenses weight loss advice to PokerGrinder: "You could have tried penis reduction surgery. Just aim for a "normal size." and I imagine you'll lose about 10 lbs."

And what best of the best would be complete without the wisdom and insight of AxelWolf? Mr Wolf does not disappoint as he hijacked the Single Coin VP Thread with the following link all in caps...his caps. "FLORIDA MAN SUFFOCATES TO DEATH AFTER HAVING SEX WITH PET ANACONDA." All caps like a kid at Christmas.

After composing himself, Mr Wolf tries to sell a gift card. "I have a $600 Tiffany's gift card that I will trade for $450 IN Bitcoin."

Jjjoooggg: "When I pooped it came out a shake like texture. It smelled strong."

Axel doesn't miss a beat. "Do you think your poop was a reincarnation of somebody famous?"

RS: "While we're on the subject of talking about poop, I had a big ol' monster of one today." Did he leave it at that? Heck no. He continues:

"Sadly, I can't claim it was my biggest, but definitely something to be proud of. It wasn't particularly thick, I'd estimate the thickness of a golf ball, perhaps a hair more. Nor was it particularly long, somewhere around 14 inches. It was a real beaut."

Here's an idea. The *cough* APs on WoV are known to bet on anything so perhaps they could include poop. Maybe have a WoV 'poopfest' at a downtown casino men's room. SOOPOOP could be the honorary master of ceremonies. Entrants would have to pre qualify by sending 'samples' to Wizard/Sad Shack.

As if that's not enough, there are still dozens of references to Nathan...all against the rules unless you are one of the boyz. They just don't stop now that Nathan can't respond. They wanted her gone, she's gone and now they can't live without her. In addition, any poor soul who happens to join WoV is automatically confronted and implied to be Nathan. Nathan still owns those losers.

So this is what it's come down to. Rule breaking by mentioning banned members, sex with animals, penis talk and a loving description of a guy's defecation. Yes, there are some "beauts" over there and I don't mean the guy's feces. Daddy Wizard must be so proud of his "gambling forum." His colleagues must admire him so. A big middle finger to the site's owners who said to keep it about gambling only.

 

I didn’t say it wasn’t cheating as far as getting points for spins you didn’t bet, I said it’s not fraud. Fraud is a legal term. Legally speaking, the casino takes the position that free play and points have no cash value, so you can’t defraud an entity of something they consider worthless.

You're using that sanctimonious double talk to hide the true meanings. Of course you're cheating as you're gaining enrichment from false pretenses, ie-using someone else money to generate comps and free play from the casino. And you use the 'legal' terminology also as a shade. For starters, the casino is a private organization with it's own house rules, even worse with tribal. There is no such thing as casino legality inside the casino. They may have to pay taxes and such, but mostly casinos aren't bound by traditional government legality. Your spacious legal comments wouldn't get in a court door.

And you've also convoluted the casino's positions about 'cash value'. They offer comps which everyone knows most if not all casinos do not allow to be turned in for cash money. Unless they have a special deal, rarely. It costs them cash to give you that steak, it cost cash to give you the room. It's written off in financial, but there's indeed cash involved. Just not direct cash to the player. Your worthless comment is just that, worthless and written to somehow justify your beliefs and 'ap' cheat techniques. They don't consider it worthless, that's something you made up as usual in your book novel responses. I've never seen that in any casino literature.

I thank you however for clarifying for me the true meaning of 'AP' play in casinos. Bottom feeding. Dishonest exploiting at every opportunity.
Cheating the casinos without getting caught. I don't care for the casinos rules either, but I don't feel they owe me in any way enough to rip them and innocent people off.

I was under the very wrong impression that 'AP' play were people who studied odds and game play to sometimes uncover mistakes in programming by the casinos, or just favorable regular odds and then would use their own money and even teams to actually play until they beat the odds. They are playing the games straight up and basically using volume pulls to succeed. I see nothing wrong with this. But turns out that 'ap' is looking for forgotten credits, payout tickets left in slots, quarters on the floor, scamming people by leaving their cards in so other people pay for their comps. And please, don't insult me with that bullshit that you would cash out the persons ticket and put it on the game or give to security. That's not what a 'ap' player would do.

I've found a few and I would pull the ticket, keep it in sight in one hand (on camera of course) and walk directly to the cashier. I would tell them what machine I found it in, what time and give it to them. If the cashier wants to pocket it, that's on them, but I did the only honest thing I could possibly do given the situation. No ones ever pulled me into the back. Cashiers have given me a strange look. But I can sleep at night.
I've even chased down a lady as she walked away leaving a payout.

So, I guess I'll never be a 'ap' because the casinos don't owe me and I'm too honest with morals. Probably shouldn't even be in a casino.
I've written my piece and opinion and have no interest in spending time untangling your nonsensical inventive prose. You won't bully me and your wordy crap doesn't work with me.

Has anyone ever won the 5000.00 posting award?

 

Isn't that all in the off topic section? So, what's the problem?

 

What are you talking about? Did you read what I posted?

To be very clear, I said that it was cheating and that I don't care. I also said that I don't do anything at this time that could be looked at as cheating in any way, shape or form.

I also don't know what you're talking about, "Get you in a court door," because I'm not suing or planning to sue anyone. I'm saying that if they wanted to go after me for fraud, they wouldn't have a case because of what their own materials say.

Don't you think they would be going after people who do multi-carding left and right if they could make an actual fraud case against them? They go after people who pastpost, why? Because it's illegal. They go after people who try to tamper with the machines, why? Because it's illegal. In Colorado, they go after credit hustlers, why? Because it's illegal.

I haven't convoluted anything and I have no reason to believe you've ever read the full materials, especially considering you just said you don't play with a players card anyway. On this particular thing in question, there were also no comps involved aside from the points that I could convert to free play and every full players club rules I have ever read have said that free play has no cash value.

https://www.caesars.com/myrewards/caesars-rewards-rules-regs

Rule 22. "Reward Credits (read: points) have no cash value." That's just one example. I can find you a shitload more if you really want me to. It's extremely standard verbiage in players club rules.

They wouldn't make points or free play have cash value because, if they did, then they would owe you the cash value of it if they capriciously and arbitrarily decided to cut your card off. Anyway, if you've never seen the, 'No cash value,' verbiage in casino literature, it's because you haven't read casino literature.

Advantage play comes in many different forms. I didn't rip any people off, unless you are referring to the casino itself.

I don't know anything about programming mistakes, whatever you intend for that to mean. Many AP plays do rely on odds, some AP plays are such that the odds are in a player's favor, but in the case of vulturing opportunities, it's pretty intuitive and you don't even really need to know the exact odds.

I would definitely cash out the ticket and put it on top of the machine and do sometimes give them to security. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but it is illegal in Pennsylvania (where I do much of my playing) to take any abandoned credits. I don't consider risking going to jail to be an advantage play or getting barred from all casinos in the state. I also would do this in the other states for the reasons you got into earlier about that, "It was my machine," hustle you mentioned. For me, there's really nothing AP about most things that would cause me the need to potentially interact with other players or with credit hustlers.

Cashier, security or sticking it on top of the machine and leaving whoever is tasked with dealing with it to do so. All fine things.

I don't think the casinos owe me anything, either. I'm not sure what gives you that impression. If you meant the loss rebate thing, if the casino says that if you lose $500 you will receive $500 in free play, then I do think I am fairly owed that if I lose the $500.

I also don't see how I am bullying you when you addressed me first. I have no idea what reward you're referring to. If you mean the one on this site, if nobody has yet, I tend to doubt anyone ever will...but I could be wrong.

 

I actually started showing remorse and regret for that stupid cussing rant 4/5 days later, not almost 5 months later. On May 29, 4 days later on VCT, I clearly begun to question if I was right to snap on WOV. On day 5, May 30th, on here, I showed even more remorse and regret.

 

Here is what was the ending of my original quote was supposed to be, but I ran out of editing time, boo.

Ironically, I originally said I would only the first request if doing so would get me reinstated on WOV. The answer was doing so will not get you reinstated on WOV. I replied something like,"Then I'm not doing that request if it will not get me back on WOV! Why would I do a request that won't get me reinstated?" The response was something like,"You are entitled to not want to do a request after you've already been banned from WOV. I later caved and did the request and all other requests. I was thinking doing all those requests just might get me reinstated on WOV after all. Still banned. I probably should have stuck to my guns and refused to do request(s) after being told that doing request(s) would not get me reinstated. I would have shown backbone by sticking to my guns, dignity, self respect, and principles had I not caved and did those requests after all. I am still banned anyway so the outcome would still be the same.

 

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No, it's not. The thread titled "Single Coin VP Math" is not off topic. It says gambling right next to the title at the top of the first page. This is just one example. This thread was hijacked by several people incessantly babbling about Nathan while breaking the rules by quoting her. Even mod OnceDear gets in on the hijacking as he thumbs his nose at the rule then laughs about it. That's just one of many examples.

This is also the thread that Axel hijacked with the story of the guy having sex with his pet anaconda. What does that have to do with VP? Anyone else would be suspended but OnceDear is afraid of his own shadow. He'd rather go after new members to show how tough he is. Nobody cares about the newbies.

Wizard from last August: "After some discussion, site ownership and management have decided to make a new rule forbidding non-gambling and non-Vegas topics." He then went through the forum and closed threads posting "per the new rule this thread has been closed." The casualties were...

"Gun Owners-Did You See This?" CLOSED

"9 Shot Dead in Ohio" CLOSED

"The Gay Thread." CLOSED

"2020 Election" (471 pages) CLOSED

"The Christian Thread." CLOSED

It's just a small example as the man of integrity takes advantage of the WoV owners by repeatedly telling everyone to go to his Diversity Tomorrow site....where surprise surprise...those threads are alive. Double standard?

 

Actually, the very next day is when I started to show remorse for that stupid cussing rant. But it was shown through PM when I clearly started to show regret which is why most people wouldn't know about my official next day remorse.

 

Karen Nathan, you have mentioned PMs frequently. You must have gotten your share on WoV. Care to share any? Remember, you are not getting reinstated on WoV until they get rid of Wizard and they seem to be in no hurry to do that. You owe that board absolutely nothing. Nothing....not the way you were treated.

So tell us. Who supported you, who tried to help you and who trashed you via PM? Did anyone hit on you? You gotta have some stories. Come on, Karen Nathan. Dish.

 

Well,about that stupid cussing rant, after I got nuked(I was expecting a Month Suspension, not a Nuke)I asked a longtime Member of WOV in a PM if they would talk to the WOV Admins about getting me reinstated. They replied something like," "You really fucked up with that cussing rant. You seriously need to give Babs an apology for that cussing rant.. I asked something like,"If I apologize to Babs, will you talk to the Admins about getting me reinstated on WOV?" The answer was something like,"No, I will not talk to the Admins about getting you reinstated." I replied something like,"I'm not apologizing to Babs if you won't talk to the Admins about getting me reinstated on WOV! Why would I apologize if you won't talk to the Admins about getting me reinstated?(At this point, I was still very pissed.) They responded something like,"I can see why you wouldn't want to apologize after you've already been nuked." I soon caved and did the apology and it was one of the fakest looking apologies ever. I was still very pissed at this point, hard to make a sincere looking apology when you're still pissed). I later gave real heartfelt apologies later on when I truly wasn't pissed off anymore.

 

Here's a thought for you Karen or whatever your name is. You SAYING an apology is "heart felt" doesn't make it so and carries no extra weight.

You seem to keep doing the same dumb shit over and over. Shit that you even admit is wrong and you expect to be punished for. And then you want to issue this supposed heart felt apology and wonder why it doesnt magically wash everything away.

Did I mention over and over? Anyone want to share with Karen the true definition of insanity?