Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

Me and 2 co workers had lunch with Julius Erving during a trade show. He was there to sign autographs and I struck up a conversation remembering his championship with the nets in the ABA. I guess he was tired of people who had no clue about him asking him to sign, that when it cane time for a lunch break we just happend to be at the right place at the right time. This was 20ish years ago.

He also seemed like a nice guy. But I am deluding myself to believe I even have a slight understanding of what goes on when the privacy door closes behind him. Lenny Dykstra was at the table next to us.....nice guy too.

You know what.....they both were nice people for the 20 minutes during the meal. Thats all I can say for sure at the time.

I totally believe the BBB was capable of being "nice" for the time you spent with her in a public place.

Heck I would bet that people met you, Mr V on a daily basis and might say "he's a nice guy".......but if your cat could speak.........

 

money earns respect from some people.

actions and treatment of other human beings, earns respect from other people

i guess it depends on hoe your were raised and the value system instilled

 

My value system is just fine and fits in the business world. Thats what you don't seem to get. It never hurt the Wiz to do what he wanted. He won.

 

you have no idea if it "hurt" him. Maybe if he was a better business person, and treated people better. he could have built the site to a 10 mil sale.

all you do is look at money and get an orgasm.;

you need more info than that

 

It is very disappointing that you measure someone in terms of money and business.

I personally am happy that Mike built and sold his business for a nice profit. I still don't get how it is worth that kind of money, nor how LCB gets a return that come close to the value mentioned, but that's me...I am not a business guy. But, I am happy for Mike and happy for his family.

But that's not what is being discussed here. He has treated some people unfairly and been dishonest with others. I happen to think you are among those that were treated unfairly. It has nothing to do with how much money he has or whether anything has hurt him.

 

KJ, of course we measure people in terms of money and business.

There is no better objective measure of success in a capitalistic society.

Perhaps you don't relish living in such a society, but it's what we've developed, and it works damned fine overall.

Sure, people can succeed at other areas, but it is much more difficult to gauge success in those realms.

For example, is a divorced person more of a failure than a person in a long term marriage?

If your kid breaks the law, does that mean you're a bad parent?

Is an atheist less praiseworthy than a devout Catholic?

The answers there are by necessity subjective, whereas the money one has earned can be quantified and measured, literally to the penny, yielding a "scientific" answer based on reality, not touchy-feely notions of right and wrong.

 

I assume you're voting for Trump.

 

LOL -- the only "objective" measure of success is genes passed onward. If you have 12 kids, then, you're doing a fine job. Everything else is subjective. "Rich Men and the eye of the needle" and all that. Besides, this is an international forum, presumably, and I'm not sure everybody's on board with the whole capitalist-as-objective-measure yardstick. Your parochialism is showing.

 

KJ, sorry you missed my point. I believe much of what Mike did was fine in the business world. It is a dollar and cents world and many of those banned like Larry added nothing in Mikes opinion to the value of his business. I also question the amount paid for the sites, but it was obviously worth it to Chen. I'll be the first to admit to have no clue of the value of online gambling sites. I don't use them and don't trust them. I even have posted the money from online sites could go to Al-Qaeda and others like it. Surely not something to get on Mikes or Chens good side. But I have no question the 2.3M is the correct number. i too an happy for Mike, like I am for anyone who sells their business they built for a profit. It's what we work hard for and take the risks for. You too are a business owner in my mind as you are self employed, and have to make the decision each day to get up and work. You in theory, make more the harder you work. More hours should mean more profits. No boss to tell you 40 hours is the limit.

As for what is being discussed here, I believe everything is open as it all relates to WOV. No doubt Mike has not been equal in how he treats people. Much of what Larry has said is true based on his actions. It has never been about me, 1BB asked multiple times while he was still there how it feels to be suspended. I was multiple times and I knew I probably would be most times as I broke posted rules I agreed to. I lived, it never was a big deal to me. Honestly I thought I would be banned after my post about you and could have been based on the multiple offense rule. I would have respected Mike more if he did instead of the smart ass post telling me to leave. I get we say things in anger and should not be punished forever for it. I accept his apology but have chosen not to post since then. But again, I will defend the rights of a business to do whatever they feel they need to, to protect and build the business. Many know I own a bar and restaurant. I have told people that I see as problem customers not to come back. Some are problem drinkers who I see as a potential liability. I'm sure they disagree, but my job is protection of corporate assets. I don't believe Mike had the same potential liability, but if he did it too much, he would have suffered the financial concequenses of it, pre sale.

Now after the sale, he has FU power. Who is to blame for that? I say Chen. We don't know the details of his sales contract but I stick by Chen just doesn't care because there is no financial reason to with WOV.

As for you, you were fucked period. Mike made the decision that his friendship with Norm was more important. His call, allowed by Chen. But I also agree with Larry, Axel, RS and others that you didn't help with the threats. I just don't see why you are willing to forgive all and even consider going back. All the good you did over there can be done elsewhere. You may even find a way to financially capitalize on your knowledge to the benefit of others in a fair honest way. Far too little of that out there.

 

People like V and Boz that measure people strictly by some published money figure are only viewing part of the picture.

If the manboy sold his business while waving a tincup....chances are astute business people who saw this occuring would lower their offer. Maybe he should have received 3 mil. Or maybe if he were at least an average businessman, he would have received 10 mil if he did more to build his business. Oh yeah, its not a business..its mikes living room. Welll maybe if he treated it as a business instead of his living room...he would have built a business deserving of 20 million. Who knows. Maybe the 2.3 is payed off over 20 years with manboy required to be the face of the website during that time.
I have made that much money in a 16 year period....so to me its not an incredible amount of money.
Its nothing I would envy or say ....wow.

someone tells you that they sold their house for 3 million.....so what. That says nothing. Could they have received 3.4 mil if they were more savvy sellers, did they originally pay 2 million or 4 million. Do they have a big remaining mortgage.

Looking at numbers that you know nothing about does not allow you to draw any conclusions.

 

Larry, perhaps you are right, it could have been worth more. I agree the poor mouthing may have hurt. But there is no way to know if Mike was a smart enough businessman to do any better than he did.

Easy to tell others how to run their business and what you see as them doing wrong. Much harder to start from scratch and built a better site.

Many complain about Facebook, who is building the better site? Instead they all bitch about it, using it 6 times a day while Zuckerburg laughs.

 

exactly, we dont know what the conditions of the sale was. We dont know if he could have received more if he conducted himself better without his begging during negotiations.
From viewing how he treats people, and how his site was losing money when he sold....I would safely say business was not his best suit..and therefore he could have done better. And selling a site that is not profitable would sell for less than a site that WAS profitable.

He built an unprofitable business and was able to sell it for a price with undisclosed terms.

So do I cheer him for building an unprofitable business.....nope. Do I cheer him for selling an unprofitable business for undisclosed terms.....not really. Because I know if a failing website was worth 2,3 million...then a profitable one would have been worth much more.

So manboy had a piece of electronic real estate that he didnt develope to its potential and therefore didnt sell at its maximum market value.

So from the way he treated people combined with his poor business sense that led to a site that required begging to stay afloat.....unlike you..I cant say he did very well.

Poor customer service will negatively impact the value of a business...and he may not realize it but he made his bed, and his 2.3 million is a fraction of what he cold have gotten.

So now his poor customer service will continue to negatively impact his new bosses profits as visits decline. As people on the site complain that the board isnt what it used to be. Yes they are saying that. Long term people like Evenbob says he doesnt post there much anymore. The man with the most posts......yes Evenbob says the site is a shell of what it used to be.

I predicted it. I warned that poor customer service will negatively select customer retention. And this does negatively impact profits. There is no way around it. A site with more visits makes more money. The billboards count on visits.

So nothing may change due to management indifference when manboy owned it and the same indifference with the new owners....but I can certainly sit in the front row with my tub of popcrorn and enjoy the show.

Heck if nothing changes,,,it will be fun to watch the continued deterioration.

I have been in charge of customer service where I work for 30 years....the buck stops with me.....I am no stranger to the concept of a business suffering due to poor customer service....and the need to keep it at a high level....the need to value your customers.

Manboy doesnt value people on his site...they are disposible. They can not return and he doesnt fucking care. And included in that attitude is the price he was paid. Probably a big discounted price.

 

"Parochialism?"

Really?

Look at China and Russia: ka-ching!

Perhaps money may not matter as much to goat herders, but pretty much the whole world understands the value of money, and people generally try to acquire as much of it as possible.

Money equals security.

Life is a game, and part of the game is to see how much money you can acquire.

Oh sure, I agree that the one real purpose in life is to reproduce, to pass your genes on, but were we to limit the analysis to reproduction we'd be no different than a flatworm in the scheme of things.

I would hope you feel you are more significant than an animal from a lower phylum.

We're the top of the heap, baby, and it's up to us to determine how to fill in the blanks.

 

yeah, but seeing a man with a big car, or someone else with a big house, or another dude with a 2,3 mil sale with undisclosed conditions says absolutely nothing,

you can assume they are all doing very well.....but thats a big assumption.

Its money that I love....Randy Newman

 

A poor man looks at a rich man and thinks "Fuck me, I wish I were rich, too!"

 

a poor man views a man making 40k a year as "rich"

its all relative

 

I would have said, "(insert name) who?.Out of sight out of mind" about ANYONE that stopped posting, especially had I never meet them in person or had contact with in RL.

That statement had more to do with the reality of online forums and it's mostly true.
I was actually just thinking about Axiomofchoice when the missing members thread came up. He was a cool guy in RL and a fairly smart player. Not only did he stop posting. he stopped all communications soon after.

( I'm not sure if we could have handled Axiom and Rome's at the same time, at least not for long on one single forum. There wouldn't be enough time in the day, enough space on a forum or enough ___________)

Anyways, don't take offence to my OOSOOM statement, it's a fact of online life.(hell, even in RL)

I should've said, I dont really care very much who is right or wrong about the entire episode, as it was handled poorly by everyone(but me ofcourse ).

And WTF does riding a Unicycle have to do with anything(At least he owns that shit)? Are we stereotyping now? We can all start with the stereotypes if we want. I can only imagine Mickey has some "gay friends". I can just imagine what his drunken posts about that would be like, especially if he had some "gay AND jewish, Asian or black friends."

Other than the fact that unicycling seems kinda nerdy. I have made a few good hearted jokes myself, but i dont think you were joking you wanted to be derogatory. I dont think mike has never claimed not to be a nerd. BTW I dont think it's easy to ride one of them things like he does, I wish I was as fit at Mike especially for his age and being the fact he is a nerd and all. It makes sense that Mike would like Biking and cycling since I dont think he is into playing team sports.

 

Jokes are fine(I love all of them), but when you are directing that joke at one particular individual and the intent is to be hurtful, IE in regards to BBB, that's just out of line, and you know it is Larry, no matter how well you make your argument.

It's one thing to take some jabs (I know I have)

But some people around here are/were getting way to personal about things that have nothing to do with how WOV is being moderated or if it's dying. Other than getting attention, how is that productive?

 

IMHO 2F just wanted to create drama and stir up shit, no matter what he say's, he loves the drama as much or more as everyone else. I dont believe his reasoning and innocent act.

Sorry 2f but you know what im saying.... carry on.

 

I think that pegged her in RL.