Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

This may be the only time I post today, though I may pop back in late this evening. I would also like to remind everyone I am going to Atlantic City tomorrow and will be gone until Sunday night and my girlfriend and I have plans for the Fourth. If I'm not back tonight, I'll likely pop in for a few Sunday night.

Redietz,

You're welcome to believe that I am here for whatever reason you like, but I was neither told nor asked to come here nor did I ask for permission or a blessing from anyone. I'm here of my own accord, and quite honestly, I only really signed up because KewlJ's first post about the matter seemed to imply I was going to. My PM to him said what I thought was the opposite.

With respect to damage control, consider this: Most of the people here are Nuked from there. The damage is done, what would I be controlling?

Finally, I would suggest that if the ownership of LCB really wanted to do, 'Damage Control,' then they would make an offer on this site. That I know of, that is not being considered...but I'm not involved in anything on the financial end such that I would actually know.

Anyway, I'm not here for any damage control. I don't expect a site largely consisting of people who were Nuked to have a positive opinion of WoV, so I don't think me coming here as a would-be ambassador would change that. Secondly, and while I cannot prove this statement, Wizard and I have not directly spoken (other than on the open Board) in over a month.

KewlJ,

Thanks again, and that is correct. As I have stated, I plan to only answer for myself and might occasionally cross over into answering for the Board as a whole, but I'm going to try to largely avoid that because I am not here to speak for the Board.

Freddy,

You have already made it clear in your first post that you have a high likelihood of looking at things in the worst possible light with respect to me. That said, it has been stated on WoV that Wizard is on vacation, which is why he hasn't logged in. Not provable, but I have not spoken to Wizard by any means other than one Forum or another for nearly a year, so if he has not been logged in on the Forums, he could not have told me to come here. And, yes, please remind me why Exoter was banned.

LarryS,

Strictly speaking, it cannot be said that KewlJ got nuked for no reason. It may or may not have been a good reason, but virtually all things that are done happen for a reason.

I also do not believe that KewlJ is necessarily angling to get back on WoV, though I am ready to take up the matter as soon as I have his blessing to do so. Anyway, I'm not here to bring KewlJ back, per se, but am more than happy if that comes as a consequence of me being here. I'll still stop in from time to time and chat with you guys even if he does come back, don't worry.

I also thank you for the defense in the last half of your post, and that is absolutely correct. I originally did not plan to come here and included my E-Mail Address (which I requested he not share) in my PM to him on Diversity Tomorrow...which is actually the first time I had logged onto that Forum in quite some time. To wit, my Password for that Forum is not even in my current Password cycle!

Junket King,

I would encourage you to not level any insults against BBB with respect to anything other than your perception of her conduct on the Forums, but you are free to do what you want, of course. I just don't see how making comments about your perception of her weight adds to any other points you may have.

Freddy (Again),

I have already helped this Board by contributing to some of your other threads and causing Page Views and I may continue to do so. I would be very surprised if BBB were to appear on this Board. Finally, I often do not even know who the Secret Administrators are so I am in no position (even if I could) to answer whether or how many of them are here.

Redietz,

I doubt if Wizard would be inclined to come over here and post, though I admit that I have never asked him about it so I cannot be sure. I'm not here to negotiate KewlJ coming back, if he wants me to bring it up with Wizard, then he can give me his blessing for me to do so. I don't even promise any results, Wizard might have exactly 0 inclination to bring KewlJ back regardless of what I say.

HowMany,

It's nice to see you, much as with JK though, I would encourage you to keep your focus on slights that BBB may have done on the Forums rather than low-level insults, but you are free to do as you like. Just in general, though, we both know that in real life you would be extremely unlikely to level such statements directly at a woman regardless of your feelings towards her.

 

Nobody? That's painting with a very broad brush, IMO. I'm a member at WOV (does that make me "from" WOV?), and it can come across as a little unwelcoming to get pre-judged from the very start.

I'm mainly just a lurker on the various gambling boards, so I don't know if I can help this board or not. But I know I'm not here to hurt it.

Just my two cents. No offense intended.

 

It is unfortunate that some feel board participation here is "Us vs. Them."

The WoV bannings have certainly helped grow this board, as it provides a "home" for the banned and a rostrum for them to vent from.

But guys like me, those who are not (yet?) banned, should be as welcome as anyone.

I can only hope that this board grows and that the non-WoV threads grow exponentially: a one-trick pony is tough to ride for the long haul.

 

My thoughts exactly, though it seems like it is becoming a haven for misfits with all the roulette scammers. Add in all the fighting back and forth and it makes it tough for new members to consider joining or posting here.

 

What do you mean again? I mentioned it once then the WOV representative asked for names of people we thought should be reinstated...completely ignoring my Exoter suggestion so I mentioned it again. I guess he was doing more of his "scanning" and missed it. For the record, I never claimed I was Exoter...never claimed I wasn't.

You don't feel like looking it up? Why, because it didn't involve you? Look where that has gotten you. Remember the poem that was mentioned here... "First they come"? Very apropos in this case.

You don't like or know Exoter? Want other names? How about Larrys, HeySlick, Kentry, or JohnCena? None of those hold a candle to you with your 4 year membership and 3200 posts? You think that entitles you to something as implied by the WOV spokesman? It should but I've got news for you. It doesn't.

Want to talk about the one that they all avoid like the plague? Someone who was banned for a first offense. Someone who was a good contributor. Someone who beat your seniority by 2 years and beat your post count by over 2000. Go ahead and look up 1bb on the suspension list and tell everyone how unfair they are to you. Go ahead and believe the lies of the cult members that longtime posters are afforded leniency.

Let's not get too exited when the cult leader sends his mods over here. Who's next beached whale? The cowardly wizard? How many secret ones will be sent? They are all full of it and I kind of like face. But if I had a friend or relative that was full of it I would tell them.

KewlJ, I support you all the way. What was done to you was beyond cowardly, beyond reprehensible, beyond despicable but guess what? You ain't the only one...you're just the only one you're concerned about and that's okay.

I'm going to depart from most and say do not blame QFIT. As rotten as he was, he couldn't have done anything without the full support of the real culprit...the biggest coward on the face of the earth. He's the one who let it happen and he's the one who can fix it. For reasons that one can only imagine - he chooses not to.

Ignore the munchkins that he sends here to plead his case. What do you expect cult members to do? How do you expect cult members to act? Well...like good little cult members. That's how.

 

Come on, Jeffers. You know I meant the main players, the ones that stick like gum on the bottom of your shoe. The ones who rush to their leader's defense at the drop of a hat...while wearing blinders. The ones who defend that comical, dysfunctional site no matter what.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a member of that board or any board. I should know. I went there to read some of your posts but there is no Jeffers there. That is entirely your business. I'm not asking for an explanation and don't want one.

 

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/24711-18-yos-in-a-row-split-off/21/
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/24711-18-yos-in-a-row-split-off/21/
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/craps/24711-18-yos-in-a-row-split-off/22/

Repeated insults, resulting into a member in good standing leaving the board. While Wiz,BBB and mission were witnesses in the thread.

VS

http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/info/rules/3853-discussion-about-the-suspension-list/376/#post378533

Ok here are some links. In one case the Wiz deletes an "Insulting" poll. ... a poll helping a member in good standing to make a decision to leave. Then the insulter continues on that path. Doubling down. I guess the person who left was considered to be not of the KJ caliber.
Its not insult, its not trolling...its just good clean fun I guess. You know.....questioning the mental stability of a member in good standing, not just repeatedly in posts, but in a poll.

And then there comes the last link. 'WE ALL KNOW",,,,,,...ok mission....you are included on the "we". Just read the last 3 posts of mine. The one in the link, and the 2 pages before it.....and tell me who was offended to the point of leaving the board because of what I posted. Tell me what everyone including yourself "knows"......as to why a banning occurred. Was it because I was on the wrong side of an issue? It cant be trolling because its just 3 posts where i was in conversation with others.....tit for tat...actual debate.
Was it because my argument was too cogent....too convincing.....and the powers that be didnt want my argument to be out there....thereby keeping THE "MIKES PLACE" fallacy rather than mikes business reality in tact?
Why was it so disturbing to put forth the idea that we are customers and should be treated with proper customer service?

I can actually totally see the reason for previous suspensions. I never complained. Not a peep from me on that board as to unfairness to me personally for those offenses. However you are kidding me. Someone batters a member in good standing until he leaves......and I present a new idea about wov being a business rather than "mikes place".....and the latter is the more toxic?

You are part of the "we" that the wiz talks about.

So mission, as part of the "we" fill in the blanks.....why isnt there a reason for my banning given anywhere. You siad the suspension board is for transparency. How transparent is that, nuking someone with no reason given.

Again I was not KJ........so everyone just bowed their head. It was accepted behavior by the authority figures....so people cant cry NOW about KJ.....its the same behavior pattern by authority. In silence, as people like me were mis-treated.......they were opening up the climate for the mis-treatment of kj.

 

I Love it! You are getting to Freddy. You know Freddy, the guy who is still a member of WoV and enjoys using it for the PM function. Defender of everyone, but not willing to boycott it himself. You know the type, eating a Whopper while telling you it's bad for you.

Or perhaps, just perhaps Freddy is banned there under one of the names he likes to claim were treated unfairly and only uses WoV under a new name. Or he is just full of shit.

Perhaps Freddy should reach out to Zuga and see if he can check if Chen will sell it to you so you can run it as a "good customer service" business. Oh wait, we went through that before, didn't we???

 

Thanks for your response. I do think it is important for a board to appear welcoming, and I appreciate your clarification.

I will also acknowledge that WOV doesn't always come across as the most welcoming place for new members. Especially those with gambling-system questions.

My feeling is that most people join a board to engage in positive experiences and interactions. No board can hit that mark every time though. The quote below is from a post made by one of the too-few female members at WOV. I think it illustrates how new members are looking for a good fit when joining a forum and may choose to move on if that fit isn't found.


"In terms of online communities, women will go where they feel comfortable and there are like-minded people to have rewarding and "feel-good" communication and interactions with. I'll be totally honest, the WoV forum may not be quite the place for me. I'm not a math/statistics aficionado. I'm not much of a gambler but I would like to learn more - enough to have more fun and not feel completely overwhelmed at the prospect of sitting down at a table (or standing at a craps table).

I'm slowly making my way through some other threads around here and a lot of it (the math talk) goes over my head. Semantics seems to be a big point of contention at times. I'm a live and let live kind of person and drama/bickering doesn't particularly interest me."

 

Do you think new female members have a score card that lets them see who is a member or non member when insults are hurled.
Do you think they know about the open season of insults for non members?
Of course not. The board is soiled with insults to non members.....or people thought to be non members.... Yet the mods selectively punish the slightest insults to members. And look the other way on major insults to members. Depends on which way the wind blows.

 

And yet they are still in business. The more you push it, the more they laugh I would assume. Nothing changes and nothing will. There is no financial reason to change. Maybe you get that, maybe you don't but I hope you know that all the time you put into pointing out what you see will never change anything.

Of course, I'm sure like everything, it is for sale for the right price. Then a new owner could right all the "wrongs" and be a hero to a few out there who never owned anything, never built a business and just don't get it. But feel they were mistreated.

It's always easy to bitch, much easier than building a better mousetrap.

 

its so easy for you to announce with certainty that nothing will change. You must be clairvoyant. With every business comes a tipping point where they either change or go down the toilet. So maybe the tipping [point is 2 years from now. Maybe its in 2 months.
But to state as a fact that nothing will ever change, is self serving....it makes one feel "all knowing".

I am not "all knowing" like you. I cant say for sure anything will or wont happen.

Maybe the real owners might close the board down, maybe they might fire some mods, maybe the wiz will fall of the unicycle and hit his head. I cannot see into the future like you can.

All I can do is enjoy myself here and see what happens.

My only goal has always been to stand up for myself and more importantly my neighbors.....mission accomplished

Nothing else need happen

If you are looking for change....thats your thing. I never stated my goal being..."change"

 

Now, getting back to the original question:
Is the wizard of Vegas forum dead yet?

 

You are contradicting yourself. You say you don't care and then you say you are “pissed” because you guys went to bat for me. Which is it do you care or not? To be honest I suspect you don't care. The last comment I saw from you in public was when someone brought my name up you said “Who? Out of sight, out of mind”. I think that pretty much says what you think of me. I suspect you (guys) going to bat for me was someone else's doing and you went along. But no matter, I have said and I will say again, I am grateful for that....thank you.

Let's look at the time line here. WoV meet up, first weekend in May. You say “MIKE WAS SERIOUSLY WANTING YOU BACK AND SAID TO SAY SO”. So what did he do about it? Nothing. I didn't hear from him. He didn't open a line of communication with me. As a matter of fact he never initiated communication with me...it was always me who initiated contact. So several weeks after this meetup where you guys were supportive and 'went to bat for me (which I had no idea about), I contacted him. It so happened I contacted him because 'Bluechow' had just started the KewlJ thread at WoV and I was wondering who Bluechow might be. But Mike made no mention of wanting me back and trying to work something out. I was still making my case and he was still fighting me. Axel, I don't think Mike was being honest with you guys. He really hasn't been throughout this ordeal.

So continuing with the time line. Over the next couple of weeks, Mike and I did have some discussion. But they really weren't going anywhere, just as they hadn't been for 3 months. I was making my case and he was rejecting me. I just see no evidence of “him wanting me back” nor doing anything to get there.

So let's talk about this again. I had been told by someone who claims to be a friend of Mike's as well as a member of WoV, that part of the problem was that Norm had threatened Mike with legal action if he continued to allow me to voice my negative opinion of Norm and his site. And while I was never able to verify this, it fits right in with Norm's normal course of action. He threatens to sue everyone. And files complaints. He threatened to sue the ZenZone website. He filed a complain against me with Yahoo mail. That's what does.

It also seemed to fit with Mike's statement that if he allowed me to return there would be consequences from Norm. So yeah nearly a month after your meetup, that you guys went to bat for me, with frustration growing, I got a little aggressive. You can call it nasty. But I really just wanted Mike to know there were consequences from me as well. There are moments during this ordeal I am not proud of and that was one of them. And apparently it backfired as it crossed with a PM from Mike where it seemed he was finally starting to move forward.

So I am sorry about that. And I am sorry if you feel I “tossed egg in your face”. But you know what, Axel....maybe if there was some communication. Maybe if someone had shot me a message saying “hey, I know you are frustrated (it's been 3 months) but some of us are working behind the scenes so just sit tight and try to be patient”. But I got none of that. From my perspective I heard nothing. From my perspective I was and still am on an island all alone. And each day that passes, I am more and more “out of sight....out of mind”.

I am not looking to win anything. I am just looking to be treated fairly...and I haven't been. Nuking me, a member who contributed positively for 4+ years, because a no-member friend, didn't like my opinion, was not only unfair, but it showed a complete lack of respect for my years of participation and contributions.

You can and have made the argument that some of my behavior has not been good. I take responsibility for that. I tell you it is out of frustration and I respect that is not the greatest defense, but it is what it is.

Mike's initial handing of this situation was wrong. And that is what has led to everything else, including maybe some bad behavior on my part. But I want to go back to an analogy that someone here used. It's like I jaywalked while crossing the street to tell a cop the bank was being robbed. Without the bank robbery....there would be no jaywalking.

Your Pissed? I am pissed too Axel. I am pissed that for now nearly 5 months, I have been banned from a site that I enjoyed participating at and tried hard to positively contribute to, simply because an outside person, who happens to be a friend of the top administrator didn't like my opinion.

That's just not fair to me. It also is not fair to members of the site that enjoyed having me participate and we know from your 'out of sight' comment that you are not one of them.

Let's focus on the big picture, Axel. Someone came to the site with the sole intent to have me silenced or get rid of me. And they achieved that goal. They had and have no intent on contributing anything positive. And so they are gone. And now all this mis-direct and muddy waters, some of which I have contributed to, allows for no one to answer for it.

 

Just saw IBYA's posted something negative about this site and the posters here. Not sure how that thread is going to go, but there is a lot more here than just a few "loudmouths who got booted". Including a couple mods from there. Always going to be those that don't agree on issues and a few fanatics that don't listen to reason but I see that this forum could grow and there is room for more than 1 out here. Having people post on both sites isn't a bad thing at all.

 

I saw that too.

I don't believe I broke any rules there and still got booted. I guess one could argue I broke the truce agreement, but I don't subscribe to that. That was unfair and should have never been demanded of me.

I also don't think you broke any rule. I just don't think what you said was an insult. For those that argue that it was, you have to not only look at what was said, but how it was said. I don't think you were trying to insult Wizard. I think you were pointing out that he might want to step back and take a look at his behavior because he is starting to look like the guy being described here.

 

"In one case the Wiz deletes an "Insulting" poll. ... a poll helping a member in good standing to make a decision to leave. Then the insulter continues on that path. Doubling down. I guess the person who left was considered to be not of the KJ caliber.
Its not insult, its not trolling...its just good clean fun I guess. You know.....questioning the mental stability of a member in good standing, not just repeatedly in posts, but in a poll."


Alan's claim of seeing eighteen yo's in a row was so absurd, so impossible, as to lead any reasonable man to conclude he either lied or "thought" he saw it, said erroneous perception caused by mental health issues.

There is no other plausible explanation.

Alan is an attention whore: he always has been.

He just used that as an excuse to make a dramatic exit.

See ya, Sparky: don't let the door hit you in the ass.

"Look at me! I saw eighteen yo's in a row! I'm special."

Yeah, they make a short bus for "special" folk to ride.

 

Fair enough, however it is not hard to fathom why she comes across as bitter, petty minded and most devote an inordinate decidated amount of time searching for IP matches and analysing writing styles, to out those dastardly bastards who dare post on an gambling site.



Mission I doubt the majority who have been banned give a rats-arse about posting on the WoV, there are many other forums around. This site, VMB to name two. I've been banned, still able to post but don't , I'm not arsed. Because posting on WoV is not what it is about what gets peoples goat up, is the indignation of being scolded, banned by some twisted control freak of a mod or because the owner just happened to be in a foul mood after some casino excursion.

It is a gambling site for heaven sakes, which involves monetary risk, not a OAP's social met and greet, however has provided an sociological outlet for BBB to vent her deep rooted feelings at society. IMO BBB is responsible for a lot of ill feelings towards WoV, the quicker Zuga shuts the door, or find another mod and leave her in her alienating world.

 

Junket KING
Your post actually says to me that Mission's contention that "fat jokes" on that site would be equally accepted with "dumb blonde jokes" is a fairy tale. Because after all both of them are not protected under govt rulings.

with her on the board.....just see how long "fat jokes" last.

 

Beached whale has once again taken Two Feathers to the woodshed for starting another WOV is dying thread. She also threatened to close it. You see, 2F, you are not one of the boys over there. Did you really think you were? It was nice of him to give the mods permission to close the thread as soon as he started it...very thoughtful. Self esteem issues? Another one who sucks up to the whale.

Did I read that you were a member here, 2F? Come on over and post...the more the merrier.