Misc WizardOfVegas Forum is Dying

I don't think Mike is a horrible person. I think Norm Wattenberger (Qfit) is a horrible person. Norm is manipulative and flat out lies every chance he gets. he is one of those people that lies so much, you wonder if they even know what is truth or not. Just yesterday he addressed the concerns that he frequently threatens to sue, by saying he has never sued anyone and doesn't even have a lawyer. Anyone who has been part of the AP community, more narrowly, the blackjack AP community for even a short time, knows that Norm has had feud after feud, with many, many AP's and site owners (even Stanford Wong...who everyone likes and gets along with) and always threatens to sue as soon as someone says something he doesn't like. I don't know if he has actually sued anyone, but he threatens to very frequently. And threat of suing is not his only method of intimidation. With site owners he files complaints with the companies that host the sites and different internet watchdog group. I know for a fact, he has gotten a couple sites shut down.

I don't mean to get into the Norm issue, but I am just saying, I don't put Mike in the same category. Norm is a horrible person, Mike is not a horrible person, but he seems to have an ego that doesn't allow him to admit when he is wrong and fix the wrong-doing. He was wrong in his handling of this situation and he did allow Norm to manipulate and "use" him and Mike deserves criticism for that. And more importantly he should have shown a little honor and integrity and fixed his wrong. And he should have done so immediately. He apparently realized it immediately, but just couldn't bring himself to do it. He was looking for a way to save face and that might be even more disturbing than the original mistake.

It is no crime or sin to make a mistake. You admit it, fix it and move forward. But when a person can't or won't do that they deserve criticism.

I really don't view Mike was a horrible person, pure evil like I view Norm, I just think he needs a little 'nudging' to do the right thing.

 

Shackleford never intended to ever let KJ back on the site. He was just going through some motions because so many people stood up for KJ. So Shack played the situation by acting like he was considering letting him back on. Why did Qfit get away with saying all he said on WoV? I'll tell you why. Shack in a goddam COWARD. He's scared shitless of Qfit. Practically every post Qfit made was suspension worthy per the rules. BBB seen it but was told to stand down. That's BULLSHIT. Qfit got Shack to ban KJ because of legitimate criticism KJ had for what Qfit was selling the newbies. Qfit is still selling snake oil to the newbies. Qfit is a PUNK and Shack is a goddam COWARD.

 

Thank you Mickey. This really is just about the way it really is.

I got emails from people telling me, Mike was trying to figure a way to bring me back. I knew that was something that he was telling them, but there was no figuring needed. It always felt to me, (even during all the negotiations) that he was trying to figure out a way NOT to bring me back. A way to save face with all those members, fellow mods and the group that he had dinner with at the WoV that all urged him to bring me back. I guess I gave him that opportunity, when after 3 months I started to get a little agitated and said something 'perceived' as not so nice.

 

That's good to know. FYI Mike did ask us to get you a message early on.

 

What was the message? Did I ever get it? And why would he even ask that of others? He has always had a method to communicate with me, as he has an email address that everyone uses to sign up. It is I that had no way of communicating with him after he banned me, and when I realized I did have an avenue, through Diversity Tomorrow, he shut that down too, when he got mad.

And I might add, that not one single time did Mike EVER initiate communication with me. In what discussions we did have, it was always me initiating communication with him. Does that sound like a person who was trying to "find a way" like he told everyone?

 

Axelwolf (and RS), you are trying to find a reason to defend Mike and place the blame on me. So you have latched on to this one small comment that I made that you think is so terrible (While I concede it may not be my finest moment, it was not this horrible threat). So you have latched onto this one small item and are ignoring everything else.

That facts are:
1.) that I was unfairly first restricted as to what I could say, the suspended, then banned, simply because a so-called friend of Mike's (who wasn't even a member of the site) demanded it of him. I was banned and Mike's own words were that I hadn't broken any rules.

2.) He was dishonest with me, in all the aftermath and discussions that followed, telling me things in private that contradicted his public statements and stances. This is why he became so angry about me revealing private communications. Because he wasn't honest in them.

3.) He was dishonest with the membership of WoV, the mods, and you guys, his friends, in saying he was trying to find a way to bring me back. That is so completely dis-ingenuous to anyone that is being even the slightest bit objective, which obviously you aren't.

So if I made a comment that showed some of my frustration after months of sitting on the sideline, while having done nothing wrong....so be it.

 

And now I am within one post of being eligible to add a signature. I can't wait......I have a couple things in mind!

 

funny, i must have hit a nerve.

Lampooning your admiration of his physique combined with his propensity to create "challenges".....brought on that quip.

You took it as an accusation.

whatever.

 

Kj, I certainly don't speak for Mike and would guess he has at best mixed opinions on me. I believe with my dollars (sorry no heart in this) Axel was there for you. He has shown multiple times he is who he is and not a shill for anyone. And I believe you know that. Any bitterness toward him is feelings, not facts.

We all know your done at WOV as KJ. Perhaps you could come back under another name if you really wanted and skate by if it means that much to you. Some are doing it everyday and getting away with it. Hell it could be a running joke if you acted the same with the same stories and incite and stayed away from bashing Mike. The forum would be better for it, but I'm not sure you have it in you. If nothing else it would give fodder to these guys who you are better than.

You are at the crossroads in my mind, be Larry and Freddy or be KJ. I'm betting you are KJ, showing you are better than Norm and willing to share what you always did with people like me who appreciated it. It can't hurt to try and see the outcome. And then you can be the "signature " guy if it doesn't work.

 

I would never ever do that. I know others people play the sock puppet game, while others use multiple handles, for whatever reason. I don't do this. It goes against everything I believe.

5 years ago, I had an incident on another site (which has been brought up here), that I did something that I am not particularly proud of.....although I had my reasons, and I didn't change handles after that incident having remained KJ or KewlJ throughout the community.
Like me or hate me, you won't have to try to figure out who I am. I don't run and hide.

And in this particular instance, I did nothing wrong. I broke no rules. I will accept no punishment.

 

Only argument I have is the same one I had earlier. You did nothing wrong until you told Mike it will never end, or something like it. Honestly how did you expect him to take that?

I get you were screwed by both Mike and Norm. Fucked, no 2 ways about it.

And it's your call how to deal with it. Punishment is the wrong term to me. Again, I see that as Larry stuff. Reputation on the net doesn't pay the bills, and we all live once. I think you once posted you get blown everyday. Yea it's a guy, lol, but many would love that life. Sure that's a strange thing to post but my point is it you have a good life in many ways and in others you deal with the stresses we all do. I'm sure even 2.3 doesn't make mikes a bowl of cherries everyday.

I hope this is a minor thing in your life as it is mine. Axel says we love the drama as a subset to our lives, if he's right I hope the rest is good for you. I like to think it is.

 

KJ, I defended you on Norm's forum and on Mike's forum (pre-suspension/pre-ban). I defended you on Mike's forum after your suspension/ban. Both in public (on forums) and in private (emails between you and I, and between Mike and I in person).

Then you revealed the "FU PM" you sent to Mike, that you had not shared. You wrote about your PMs between you and Mike as if Mike had suddenly exploded and told you to F Off, as if you hadn't sent that "FU PM" to him.

I've stated this before -- you were initially unfairly suspended/banned and I defend you regarding that aspect. But I'm not going to defend you anymore since the "FU PM" to Mike has been revealed.

If you consider this "kissing Mike's ass", well......I don't really know what to say about that.

 

No, I've no latent homosexual tendencies, I'm married and "straight."

It just seemed more like the opening shot of a flame war than a lampoon.

 

And KJ, you were right on the Sixers under last year, but this years team is the talk of the NBA. Simmons, Joel, Daric and company are on the upturn. If you are ever come back to Philly, 2 tickets to a game are yours, on me. Trust the Process!

 

Is it cheap to sue? 10k, 20k for a lawyer as an advance? Dirt cheap to send a threatening letter to a hosting company, kinda sums it up. Call his bluff, he probably doesn't sell enough books or would have to write off too many sales to hire a lawyer.

I once received a letter from Mike's lawyer a long time back over some curt correspondence, told him to fuck off and never heard anything back, simply full of shit, don't sweat it.

Did it ever cross your mind, he may have blown his bankroll again and was in a foul mood

Exactly, who gives a hoot about gambling forums, you're giving them too much importance.

This is the kind of personal stuff you don't mention on public forums if you're going to rile people up. You personal business remains personal...

Fuck Mike, you're better than that, start a BJ thread, cos' I like to know how the hell you get away with using a 1 - 8 spread nowadays, also ever considered playing overseas (can't say I've ever many non CSM games TBH).

 

You dumb fucks just don't want to get it, do you? SHACKLEFORD WAS THE PERPETRATOR. KJ WAS THE VICTIM. I'll say it again and see if you can get that into your ignorant ass heads. SHACKLEFORD WAS THE PERPETRATOR. KJ WAS THE VICTIM. Whatever happened after that is totally, I said totally, I said totally fucking irrelevant. Get that through your dumass heads. Fuck all you assholes that want to blame the victim. You are shitty ass motherfuckers. You're stinking the whole place up. Now go back over to WoV and stick your nose back up Shackleford's ass, you brown nosed fucks.

 

Fuck you dickyslim. You must be hitting the bottle again you dumb fuck. Not that Mike is always but kj should have just stopped talking about norm-
He knows norm is a complete fucking nut job

 

Goggle his name norm rotten burger and you will see all that needs to me said when you click the first hit that comes up

 

What is your drink of choice by the way?

 

Fuck you, Wizpuss. I haven't had a drink since last Wednesday. If Norm is a nut job then he needs to be exposed. Perhaps you will start a thread about it on WoV. LOL! Not! That's because you are not only afraid of Norm, you are scared shitless of Shackleford.

If KJ believes Norm is doing harm to new blackjack players then it needs to be exposed. Where is your hero, Shackleford on the issue? He should know, per KJ, and he could have done is own detective work, that Norm is fucking over new BJ players. But the skinny fuck is hiding under his desk. That's how much Shack cares about all you assholes. He don't give a rats ass about any of his minions on WoV or any other site. He's out for his punk ass self. He's playing everybody, and that includes you.